Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Lavoie Vs. Pederson Vs. Sutter Vs. Gagner Vs. Caggiula

[Tad Mikowsky]

You do realize this is draft +4 for Broberg and he couldn't get any playing time away from Desi right.
Broberg is more in the suspect territory than prospect territory right now. He is not pushing the envelope.
How many cups of coffee did he get this past year?

21 vs 26 year old.

You’ve had a hate on Broberg since he was drafted. For a guy who’s adamant that the Oilers aren’t good enough, moving Broberg for some jobber doesn’t push the envelope. It’s a shit move.

 

[duul]

Oh typical Duul, leaving out details. Carolina paid him 6.1mil, a first and a 3rd

Brown only cost 4mil..no assets

Kotkaniemi’s cap hit is 4.8, he is signed long term and is now in Selke conversations for having one of the best two way games in the league, with over a 60% corsi which is something even you guys can appreciate. Relatively way higher than his teammates on a great team, while brown has been a - relative player his career.

The players aren’t close in capability, and one comes in at a cap hit of 800k more despite being far more valuable.

If you don’t like Kotkaniemi as a player that’s one thing, but every stat backs him up as being elite in helping you win games. Connor Brown’s show he gives up more than he gets even in relation to his teammates. That’s concerning, for a guy who supposedly isn’t that skilled but makes up for it with really really really trying hard! Harder than everyone else! What a motor!

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yes Game 4 was better than Game 3. He let in a few untimely shaky ones in Game 2 (I think this is the one) as well, but we scored our way out of it.



You quoted it, but then argued against something I never even said and are now fishing for something to fight over.

Conjecture, as usual.

So because talbot had one bad game in the playoffs you thought that the positive views on his 2017 season were revisionist?

I was seeking clarity on what you meant by that.

Talbot was remarkable that 2016-17 season.

 

[Anarchism]

You do realize this is draft +4 for Broberg and he couldn't get any playing time away from Desi right.
Broberg is more in the suspect territory than prospect territory right now. He is not pushing the envelope.
How many cups of coffee did he get this past year?

21 vs 26 year old.

You’ve had a hate on Broberg since he was drafted. For a guy who’s adamant that the Oilers aren’t good enough, moving Broberg for some jobber doesn’t push the envelope. It’s a shit move.

You don't know the player. Thats obvious. How can you Judge.
What are those intangibles i speak of. I know you have no idea.
Broberg has maybe a 30 - 40 percent chance of making it. Kovy is a sure thing and has something else we need.
And yes its not Broberg i hate but Holland for such a dumb move.
And yes your trading a possible upside for solid performance. Thats what we need instead a possible subpar rookie full of mistakes. This is our year with a couple of small moves now which is what we can afford and a bigger one at the deadline. Make the right moves and we make the top 4 for sure maybe even win the conference for sure.

 

[K1984]

So because talbot had one bad game in the playoffs you thought that the positive views on his 2017 season were revisionist?

I was seeking clarity on what you meant by that.

Talbot was remarkable that 2016-17 season.

Was responding in the context of people being mad at Skinner’s playoff performance vis a vis Talbot’s. Was just pointing out that Talbot left something to be desired in that playoff as well.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Have to agree. The way Holloway and Broberg were handled last year was terrible .

Holloway made a mistake on his first shift and pretty much played 6 mins until he got injured.

Some games Broberg was getting 2.5 mins.

These guys have to be put in a position to succeed like Bouchard was after Barrie was traded. The Oilers are a significantly better team if Holloway and Broberg pan out.

If Broberg can turn into a top 4 dman by the trade deadline, it would be massive for the Oilers. I would pair him Ekholm to start the year so we at least have an idea on what we have in him.

I also wouldn’t mind seeing Holloway spend some time with Draisaitl or McDavid and spread out the talent and ice time across the top 9.

I don’t know why they were handled the way they were last year. I don’t know if its the GM, coach or leadership core. But I hope its different this year.

WE really need it to be different this season but I'm not sure where thats going to come from. The bigger question perhaps is the Campbell handling and how the player rebounds from that. Very clearly it was odd for a vet netminder to not even be given a chance in the playoffs at getting a start.

Good orgs find a way to spread out the minutes and get some prospects toi while still having a solid team. This serves dividends of the star players being more preserved for playoffs. We always seem to run our core ragged. Even Hyman was a husk by playoffs.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

You don't know the player. Thats obvious. How can you Judge.
What are those intangibles i speak. I know you have no idea.
Broberg has maybe a 30 - 40 percent chance of making it. Kovy is a sure thing and has something else we need.
And yes its not Broberg i hate but Holland for such a dumb move.

No, I have a different opinion than you. Has f*** all to do with “not knowing the player”

Your percentages are junk. Your proposal is junk. Your reasoning is junk.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Was responding in the context of people being mad at Skinner’s playoff performance vis a vis Talbot’s. Was just pointing out that Talbot left something to be desired in that playoff as well.

Thanks. Sometimes the context of a comment can be harder to follow due to how threads are and with many posts in-between.

This does clarify your comment somewhat.

The difference being talbot was an established quantity. A confirmed NHL starter, already, and had multiple solid seasons.

Jury is still out on Skinner due to him being less experienced.

Skinner was mostly bad in playoffs but I stay the course obviously, anyway. He's the one we got now. We have to hope for the best.

 

[belair]

If your going to be in the rumors and proposal thread maybe it is a good idea to have a handle on other GMs...who they are, their background and past moves? Or what the hell wing it!

You're talking about trading a team's top prospect for a player making his mark on a lottery team's bottom pairing at the ripe age of 26. Apparently the sarcasm was lost on you and @Raab.

Kovacivic and Peeke have been your two pet projects for several months of posts. And for certain teams they'd be decent gambles to squeeze value out of a limited player. We're not one of them because they'd be nothing more than an upgrade on Desharnais.

 

[Anarchism]

No, I have a different opinion than you. Has f*** all to do with “not knowing the player”

Your percentages are junk. Your proposal is junk. Your reasoning is junk.

Okay Tad we disagree. Junk is the word.

 

[belair]

Quality vet

Trade Broberg for a player who’s played one season in the NHL at a third pairing level.

Terrible…

Quality vet with less NHL experience than Evan Bouchard.

 

[Anarchism]

You're talking about trading a team's top prospect for a player making his mark on a lottery team's bottom pairing at the ripe age of 26. Apparently the sarcasm was lost on you and @Raab.

Kovacivic and Peeke have been your two pet projects for several months of posts. And for certain teams they'd be decent gambles to squeeze value out of a limited player. We're not one of them because they'd be nothing more than an upgrade on Desharnais.

The kid is solid defensively...wouldn't need Kulak babysitting him or covering for him alot. Changes the aspect of the bottom pair. But your right he likely does not have top 4 upside other than to cover the odd injury.
It is a short term gain possibly for a long term loss possibly.
Whats hard to understand Belair given our situation?
Look at what Zito have done. Look at what Sakic has done. Look at what Holland has done or been too afraid to do.
Reducing risks going into the season so there is less moves necessary at the deadline is smart.
There are going to be gambles. Holland is gambling on Mcleod, Holloway, and some rookie development. He is gambling on Skinner working hard to overcome a couple of weaknesses and likely (bad gamble) Soupy trying to get his head on straight after a loss or some bad goal.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

The kid is solid defensively...wouldn't need Kulak babysitting him or covering for him alot. Changes the aspect of the bottom pair. But your right he likely does not have top 4 upside other than to cover the odd injury.
It is a short term gain possibly for a long term loss possibly.
Whats hard to understand Belair given our situation?
Look at what Zito have done. Look at what Sakic has done. Look at what Holland has done or been too afraid to do.

Short term gain for long term loss. And the short term gain isn’t even that good.

A dime a dozen jobber for a top asset in the organization. Your talent evaluation for trades is bad.

 

[FlameChampion]

WE really need it to be different this season but I'm not sure where thats going to come from. The bigger question perhaps is the Campbell handling and how the player rebounds from that. Very clearly it was odd for a vet netminder to not even be given a chance in the playoffs at getting a start.

Good orgs find a way to spread out the minutes and get some prospects toi while still having a solid team. This serves dividends of the star players being more preserved for playoffs. We always seem to run our core ragged. Even Hyman was a husk by playoffs.

The goaltending has been handled weirdly for awhile. Even going back to Smith/Koskinen, both guys we’re driven into the ground at different points through multiple years. They were playing like 12 games in a row and stuff.

Smith dealt with injuries and age issues 2 years ago. They call up Skinner, he plays well. They proceed to run Koskinen into the ground even though they no he has no future with the team. Smith come back and finally starts to play well. They run him into the ground to make the playoffs. And he was pretty much spent by the Calgary series.

Likewise Skinner was obviously struggling in these playoffs and they kept running him.

I don’t know who makes the goaltending decisions. I don’t know if its GM, Coach or Schwartz but its been baffling for awhile.

 

[duul]

The goaltending has been handled weirdly for awhile. Even going back to Smith/Koskinen, both guys we’re driven into the ground at different points through multiple years. They were playing like 12 games in a row and stuff.

Smith dealt with injuries and age issues 2 years ago. They call up Skinner, he plays well. They proceed to run Koskinen into the ground even though they no he has no future with the team. Smith come back and finally starts to play well. They run him into the ground to make the playoffs. And he was pretty much spent by the Calgary series.

Likewise Skinner was obviously struggling in these playoffs and they kept running him.

I don’t know who makes the goaltending decisions. I don’t know if its GM, Coach or Schwartz but its been baffling for awhile.

Woodcraft mentioned Schwartz is the one who tells him who to play in net.

 

[Anarchism]

Short term gain for long term loss. And the short term gain isn’t even that good.

A dime a dozen jobber for a top asset in the organization. Your talent evaluation for trades is bad.

I accept your criticism, maybe your right.
But with your slagging my idea ...can you please present what you would do?
Would you keep Broberg and play all season to see if he can displace Desi? Or do you expect him to jump to top 4 before the end of the year?
Or would you do something else?

 

[Drivesaitl]

The goaltending has been handled weirdly for awhile. Even going back to Smith/Koskinen, both guys we’re driven into the ground at different points through multiple years. They were playing like 12 games in a row and stuff.

Smith dealt with injuries and age issues 2 years ago. They call up Skinner, he plays well. They proceed to run Koskinen into the ground even though they no he has no future with the team. Smith come back and finally starts to play well. They run him into the ground to make the playoffs. And he was pretty much spent by the Calgary series.

Likewise Skinner was obviously struggling in these playoffs and they kept running him.

I don’t know who makes the goaltending decisions. I don’t know if its GM, Coach or Schwartz but its been baffling for awhile.

Like @duul just stated Woody actually mentioned that he was consulting with Schwartz on who to start. I was shocked when he said it and people seem to want to forget about that episode.

A bonafide head coach doesn't defer to a person that has been inadequate in his role. Its interesting that Woody even follows Schwartz recommendation or openly looks for it. Thats concerning to me.

Schwartz is only still here because the org lacks to due diligence to even change who they have as a goalie coach. I wouldn't ask him what the weather is like outside.

 

[Anarchism]

Like @duul just stated Woody actually mentioned that he was consulting with Schwartz on who to start. I was shocked when he said it and people seem to want to forget about that episode.

A bonafide head coach doesn't defer to a person that has been inadequate in his role. Its interesting that Woody even follows Schwartz recommendation or openly looks for it. Thats concerning to me.

Schwartz is only still here because the org lacks to due diligence to even change who they have as a goalie coach. I wouldn't ask him what the weather is like outside.

So we have a starter who is a headcase and a goalie coach who is shite.
Come on Jackson take the reins from Holland and fire Dustin today!

 

[FlameChampion]

Like @duul just stated Woody actually mentioned that he was consulting with Schwartz on who to start. I was shocked when he said it and people seem to want to forget about that episode.

A bonafide head coach doesn't defer to a person that has been inadequate in his role. Its interesting that Woody even follows Schwartz recommendation or openly looks for it. Thats concerning to me.

Schwartz is only still here because the org lacks to due diligence to even change who they have as a goalie coach. I wouldn't ask him what the weather is like outside.

Will be interesting to see if Jackson cans Schwartz or not. It’s strange that he’s survived for as long as he has.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Say that as many times as you like but in 18 career playoff games Jack Campbell has a .920 SV%.

During the 2022-23 playoffs he had a .961 SV%.

Over his career during 171 regular season games Campbell has a .910 SV%.

I like Jack Campbell's style of goaltending, he finally accumulated a meaningful amount of experience at the NHL level.

With an improved defensive scheme in front of Campbell he'll take the starters job away from Skinner. He'll pop off like Adin Hill.

I believe in Campbell and feel that he will rebound. If he doesn't it will really set the team back and he needs to be moved out.

 

[Anarchism]

I believe in Campbell and feel that he will rebound. If he doesn't it will really set the team back and he needs to be moved out.

I think he rebounds as well but the problem is he can go off the rails at any time. How do you trust him in the playoffs even if he gives you a fairly good showing in the regular season?
Maybe they buy him out next offseason or make him part of a bigger trade(with retention)?

 

[belair]

The kid is solid defensively...wouldn't need Kulak babysitting him or covering for him alot. Changes the aspect of the bottom pair. But your right he likely does not have top 4 upside other than to cover the odd injury.
It is a short term gain possibly for a long term loss possibly.

He may be solid defensively, but you're talking about spend an A level asset to upgrade a tertiary role short term. The trade off isn't logical.

For a team that's trying to build a sustainable competitive product, continuing to run with the internally developed prospect, allowing him to assume that third pair role in the immediate shirt term and taking the next few season to give him the opportunity to see his top four potential is the logical route.

You only get so many of these types of assets through the draft. Using them to acquire replacement level players poised to earn second and third contracts is how you limit your teams growth potential.

On defense the upgrade is likely being made on Ceci, not the bottom pair.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I believe in Campbell and feel that he will rebound. If he doesn't it will really set the team back and he needs to be moved out.

Has there been much statement from him this offseason? the whole situation was strange with the Vet not getting starts in playoffs and the goalie coach advising not to start him.

I would have expected some correction to have occurred by now. For the org to have fired Schwartz.

That the head coach and goalie coach that didn't believe in Campbell are both still incumbent, how does that impact on Campbell moving forward. Knowing that neither believe in him as an option.

Schwartz should be fired. So many times.

 

[belair]

You do realize this is draft +4 for Broberg and he couldn't get any playing time away from Desi right.
Broberg is more in the suspect territory than prospect territory right now. He is not pushing the envelope.
How many cups of coffee did he get this past year?

He got a long look with Bouchard prior to the Ekholm trade on the third pairing. Their results were actually quite strong.

Pairing him with Desharnais, who's nothing more than a 7D, isn't preferable. Neither presents a 'safe' game at this point.

A future bottom pairing of Broberg and a veteran UFA RD is a projectable option for the team next season if they're looking to cut salary.

 

[Anarchism]

He may be solid defensively, but you're talking about spend an A level asset to upgrade a tertiary role short term. The trade off isn't logical.

For a team that's trying to build a sustainable competitive product, continuing to run with the internally developed prospect, allowing him to assume that third pair role in the immediate shirt term and taking the next few season to give him the opportunity to see his top four potential is the logical route.

You only get so many of these types of assets through the draft. Using them to acquire replacement level players poised to earn second and third contracts is how you limit your teams growth potential.

On defense the upgrade is likely being made on Ceci, not the bottom pair.

First is Broberg an A level asset at this point.
Second show me you timing and player you would bring in for Ceci and how the cap works and what assets you would trade.
I agree it would certainly hurt if Broberg reaches his potential...but he has certainly plateau'd for awhile and couldn't displace Desi.
Broberg has a good a chance at being nothing than he has of being top 4 Belair.