Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Lavoie Vs. Pederson Vs. Sutter Vs. Gagner Vs. Caggiula

[belair]

Kotkaniemi at 4.8 > Brown at 4.

Brown is at $775k.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Have to agree. The way Holloway and Broberg were handled last year was terrible .

Holloway made a mistake on his first shift and pretty much played 6 mins until he got injured.

Some games Broberg was getting 2.5 mins.

These guys have to be put in a position to succeed like Bouchard was after Barrie was traded. The Oilers are a significantly better team if Holloway and Broberg pan out.

If Broberg can turn into a top 4 dman by the trade deadline, it would be massive for the Oilers. I would pair him Ekholm to start the year so we at least have an idea on what we have in him.

I also wouldn’t mind seeing Holloway spend some time with Draisaitl or McDavid and spread out the talent and ice time across the top 9.

I don’t know why they were handled the way they were last year. I don’t know if its the GM, coach or leadership core. But I hope its different this year.

Agree with a lot of your post. However roster deployment is the head coaches domain and responsibility. Holland's pretty clear in interviews over the years on the clear separation between his job of getting talent while the coach is given autonomy on how to deploy it. Woodcroft has shown to be similar to veteran coaches on mature phase teams who default to veteran experience over risks on green bananas. The big exception last year was riding a rookie goaltender because the big money free agent signing completely melted down.

Personally, I don't see Woodcroft deviating from the d-pair of Ekholm Bouchard. This team needs a young Bouchard to continue to stabilize as a top 4 all situational defenseman. Ekholm provides the stability to ensure this critical young cornerstone d-man has that support. As a Win now mature phase team, the Oilers are also not going to deep dive Broberg into top 4 minutes and competition. His realistic, early career development on a Cup contender aspiring team is to earn a third pairing role riding alongside veteran Kulak. Filling the organization gap on his off-shooting side at RD. Once established as a stable, consistent third pair guy, this team over the years ahead can continue to grow Broberg into a more substantive role.

Young forwards are easier to 'hide' and move around among veteran rosters. Within a deep, elite forward group, Holloway is definitely an X-factor who could prospectively move up and down the roster if his game hits.

 

[belair]

First is Broberg an A level asset at this point.
Second show me you timing and player you would bring in for Ceci and how the cap works and what assets you would trade.

Broberg is our top projectable prospect at this point. Way, way ahead of anyone on defense.

When it comes to the market, look back to the posts last year. That stuff doesn't open up until after American Thanksgiving. People were tunnel-visioned on Chychrun for much of the year. But the options open up when teams start to separate from the pack in either direction.

The Oilers have plenty of movable salaries to facilitate adds at any position. And they've got trade chips. Are you suggesting that they don't have maneuverability?

 

[belair]

TB just terminated Archie's deal he signed with them in the off-season. It says that he doesn't plan on paying hockey for the foreseeable future. Hope everything's all right with the guy.

I know he was a bit of a divisive player here, but I thought he was everything that you could ask for in an undersized fourth liner.

 

[McDNicks17]

TB just terminated Archie's deal he signed with them in the off-season. It says that he doesn't plan on paying hockey for the foreseeable future. Hope everything's all right with the guy.

I know he was a bit of a divisive player here, but I thought he was everything that you could ask for in an undersized fourth liner.

Now you've done it. As if this thread wasn't already enough of a lost cause haha.

 

[Anarchism]

Broberg is our top projectable prospect at this point. Way, way ahead of anyone on defense.

When it comes to the market, look back to the posts last year. That stuff doesn't open up until after American Thanksgiving. People were tunnel-visioned on Chychrun for much of the year. But the options open up when teams start to separate from the pack in either direction.

The Oilers have plenty of movable salaries to facilitate adds at any position. And they've got trade chips. Are you suggesting that they don't have maneuverability?

Not at all. Was wondering if you had a specific D in mind or your just going with the idea the one you want will be available later in the year and we can outbid the other 10 teams? Holland is unlikely to put a first on the board.

 

[belair]

I accept your criticism, maybe your right.
But with your slagging my idea ...can you please present what you would do?
Would you keep Broberg and play all season to see if he can displace Desi? Or do you expect him to jump to top 4 before the end of the year?
Or would you do something else?

I have Broberg well ahead of Desh. But I also project Broberg as a LD, and Desh as a 7. I think the move is Kulak and futures for a top four RD at the deadline. Ceci is movable, but that may not happen until the off-season. Same goes with Foegele.

 

[Oilhawks]

Will be interesting to see if Jackson cans Schwartz or not. It’s strange that he’s survived for as long as he has.

Schwartz has immunity. Schwartz to Jackson when they met after the hire:

 

[belair]

Now you've done it. As if this thread wasn't already enough of a lost cause haha.

What? It's not like he wasn't the greatest Oiler to ever lace up the skates. Certified legend.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I have Broberg well ahead of Desh. But I also project Broberg as a LD, and Desh as a 7. I think the move is Kulak and futures for a top four RD at the deadline. Ceci is movable, but that may not happen until the off-season. Same goes with Foegele.

I should hope a free agent is moveable.

 

[Anarchism]

I have Broberg well ahead of Desh. But I also project Broberg as a LD, and Desh as a 7. I think the move is Kulak and futures for a top four RD at the deadline. Ceci is movable, but that may not happen until the off-season. Same goes with Foegele.

You realize Kulak was easily your 3rd best D this last playoffs.
You obviously think more highly of Broberg than I do.
I like Desi and think he eventually becomes a very good 6 plus extra.

 

[belair]

I should hope a free agent is moveable.

Hmm.... Thought both had two years left.

 

[TheNumber4]

I have Broberg well ahead of Desh. But I also project Broberg as a LD, and Desh as a 7. I think the move is Kulak and futures for a top four RD at the deadline. Ceci is movable, but that may not happen until the off-season. Same goes with Foegele.

I wouldn’t trade Kulak with what he shows in the playoffs. Broberg will be hard pressed to match what Playoff Kulak brings.

Ceci+Broberg for a RD upgrade is what I’d do. But I would have traded Broberg 3 years ago so we likely won’t agree on that.

 

[Mr Positive]

NHL players do not give a f*** about which rookies they have playing in the AHL or healthy scratched on their club.

They would have far preferred those picks being moved for guys like Ekholm who help them try and win a championship now.

Of course players care how good the future of the team is.

I'm not talking about what they want today. I'm talking about them re-signing when the time comes. If we sell off all the futures, then McDavid is looking at a team with its best years behind it. I disagree with you that we should have sold off guys like Holloway and Broberg for some win-now veterans who would be gone now because of the cap. Would we have won the cup if we did that? Maybe but maybe not. Either way it's an insane way to run a franchise when it makes a ton more sense to me to assume that our cup window is 10-12 years and not just 1-3. My approach would probably be the best chance to actually win the cup because we'd have more kicks at the can. And imo we'd still have a great shot at a cup this year and could still fix holes on the team

 

[belair]

You realize Kulak was easily your 3rd best D this last playoffs.
You obviously think more highly of Broberg than I do.
I like Desi and think he eventually becomes a very good 6 plus extra.

I do. But Kulak also plays an inconsequential role behind our two best defensemen. Trade that veteran D when he has the lustre and you get value. Wait until it wears off and you pay a team for the opportunity to move him.

When you add the upgrade at RD, Kulak's workload reduces further. The Oilers are becoming a team that's going to be a very beneficial place to integrate prospects. The bar is set fairly low.

I wouldn’t trade Kulak with what he shows in the playoffs. Broberg will be hard pressed to match what Playoff Kulak brings.

Ceci+Broberg for a RD upgrade is what I’d do. But I would have traded Broberg 3 years ago so we likely won’t agree on that.

That approach is quite expensive.

 

[Anarchism]

I do. But Kulak also plays an inconsequential role behind our two best defensemen. Trade that veteran D when he has the lustre and you get value. Wait until it wears off and you pay a team for the opportunity to move him.

When you add the upgrade at RD, Kulak's workload reduces further. The Oilers are becoming a team that's going to be a very beneficial place to integrate prospects. The bar is set fairly low.

I think Broberg is about to find out how hard it is to play two way D in the NHL and i don't think he has the tacks for it. Took Brandt Clarke with LA all year to get some traction and i would suggest Broberg is no Clarke. Broberg's development curve will be quite a bit longer if at all.

Yes its hard to trade this asset for one of limited upside value. But it benefits the team 'this year' and maybe in the future.
I will take the cod fish now instead of the possible lobster catch tomorrow because were hungry now.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Has there been much statement from him this offseason? the whole situation was strange with the Vet not getting starts in playoffs and the goalie coach advising not to start him.

I would have expected some correction to have occurred by now. For the org to have fired Schwartz.

That the head coach and goalie coach that didn't believe in Campbell are both still incumbent, how does that impact on Campbell moving forward. Knowing that neither believe in him as an option.

Schwartz should be fired. So many times.

I haven't heard a peep about or from him. I think that's best. Keep training hard and getting himself mentally and physically prepared for this season. I'm sure that Campbell knows that he needs to be better, hopefully he can do that in spite of Woody and Schwartz.

I think he rebounds as well but the problem is he can go off the rails at any time. How do you trust him in the playoffs even if he gives you a fairly good showing in the regular season?
Maybe they buy him out next offseason or make him part of a bigger trade(with retention)?

I've always said that you go with the hot hand in the playoffs. The regular season is the long game, the playoffs can be over almost as quickly as they started if you ride with the wrong personnel.

 

[McDNicks17]

What? It's not like he wasn't the greatest Oiler to ever lace up the skates. Certified legend.

Hey, I don't disagree. The only thing worse to happen to this organization than selling off Gretzky was letting Archibald walk.

 

[TheNumber4]

I do. But Kulak also plays an inconsequential role behind our two best defensemen. Trade that veteran D when he has the lustre and you get value. Wait until it wears off and you pay a team for the opportunity to move him.

When you add the upgrade at RD, Kulak's workload reduces further. The Oilers are becoming a team that's going to be a very beneficial place to integrate prospects. The bar is set fairly low.


That approach is quite expensive.

Shouldn’t be more expensive than Kulak+Futures for the same upgrade. But in your scenario a more expensive Ceci stays on the roster making the trade less realistic and we’d have a surplus at RD.

 

[belair]

I think Broberg is about to find out how hard it is to play two way D in the NHL and i don't think he has the tacks for it. Took Brandt Clarke with LA all year to get some traction and i would suggest Broberg is no Clarke.

Clarke is more Bouchard than Broberg. When it comes to Broberg, it'll be interesting to see how he's integrated into the roster this year. The coaching staff is very familiar with him, so I assume this is the year where he'll get some rope.

 

[duul]

You realize Kulak was easily your 3rd best D this last playoffs.
You obviously think more highly of Broberg than I do.
I like Desi and think he eventually becomes a very good 6 plus extra.

Read my posts about Broberg for years now.

I was real high on him after seeing him play at world juniors and watching through his highlights.

What dawned on me after following his Skelleftea career after we drafted him (I watched at least 15, probably 20 of his games over those years) was that, along with any highlight compilation of his, there are no instances of him being able to stickhandle while walking the line, and there are no instances of him finding the open man.

All of his highlights and play that gained him such a high draft ranking were of him skating the puck out of his own zone and generating a shot on net. When the play is slowed down and he is forced to make quick passes to teammates or think at all what to do with the puck, he falters badly.

In his last season at Skelleftea where he was supposed to be leading the way, he was a healthy scratch for a lot of the playoffs or the 7th D. Funnily enough Skelleftea also ran 7 D in the playoffs that year. Broberg, when he did get ice, used it poorly. Way too skiddish with the puck, timid.

He is a generally poor stickhandler like a lot of bigger, rangier D. Doesn't make those quick moves like a Makar or even a Bouchard does where he will fake and move inside for a shot or pass opportunity. So right away he doesn't have the elite nature of an offensive defenceman, meaning his peak will be something of a middling guy who can shut other teams down while providing little to no offence at the NHL level as the skills that got him drafted in the first place are diminished heavily by playing against people who skate just as well.

It took me a couple years, and growing as a person to start realizing in a better manner what makes or breaks a good defenceman, rather than just being wowed by a highlight package from Hlinka's or training camps.

Let it be known I was one of the big Broberg defenders here for the first few years, but it has become obvious now that unless he magically learns how to stickhandle and make plays, something he hasn't been able to do at any point in his career, he will be a nothing player. 8th overall picks are supposed to be impact guys, solid in the top 4 no?

There is no reasonable path he ends up in an NHL top 4. His skating is acceptable, but the rest of his game can not be.

It's a shame because Byram and Seider who went before him are absolute studs. Even Cam York looks unreal out there.

If someone here can explain to me how Broberg ends up as a solid top 4 defenceman, I'm all ears. He simply doesn't have the tools necessary to become that. Can we maximize his potential? Definitely. I think if he works out the glaring kinks in his game, he can be a third pairing guy who plays some PK. There is not much more there. He will never be capable of leading a rush and making the right play, or playing PP, or generating much offence. His head has never worked in that way throughout any level of hockey and isn't going to magically start either.

Do we accept being happy with the 8th overall pick maxxing out as a third pairing guy, or do we look to move him before that is established?

 

[McDNicks17]

I think Broberg is about to find out how hard it is to play two way D in the NHL and i don't think he has the tacks for it. Took Brandt Clarke with LA all year to get some traction and i would suggest Broberg is no Clarke. Broberg's development curve will be quite a bit longer if at all.

Yes its hard to trade this asset for one of limited upside value. But it benefits the team 'this year' and maybe in the future.

It takes a lot of traction to go against the CBA and get called up from the OHL to the NHL.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Agree with a lot of your post. However roster deployment is the head coaches domain and responsibility. Holland's pretty clear in interviews over the years on the clear separation between his job of getting talent while the coach is given autonomy on how to deploy it. Woodcroft has shown to be similar to veteran coaches on mature phase teams who default to veteran experience over risks on green bananas. The big exception last year was riding a rookie goaltender because the big money free agent signing completely melted down.

Personally, I don't see Woodcroft deviating from the d-pair of Ekholm Bouchard. This team needs a young Bouchard to continue to stabilize as a top 4 all situational defenseman. Ekholm provides the stability to ensure this critical young cornerstone d-man has that support. As a Win now mature phase team, the Oilers are also not going to deep dive Broberg into top 4 minutes and competition. His realistic, early career development on a Cup contender aspiring team is to earn a third pairing role riding alongside veteran Kulak. Filling the organization gap on his off-shooting side at RD. Once established as a stable, consistent third pair guy, this team over the years ahead can continue to grow Broberg into a more substantive role.

Young forwards are easier to 'hide' and move around among veteran rosters. Within a deep, elite forward group, Holloway is definitely an X-factor who could prospectively move up and down the roster if his game hits.

The pairing of Bouchard and Ekholm has pretty much been deviated from. At the captain skates, Ekholm and Broberg have been paired up together.

Also, On Oilers Now, Ekholm and Bob interview pretty much confirmed him playing with Broberg. Heck, Ekholm himself brought it up and then they talked about how playing RD is.

I'm going to call it and say it's going to happen

 

[Anarchism]

Clarke is more Bouchard than Broberg. When it comes to Broberg, it'll be interesting to see how he's integrated into the roster this year. The coaching staff is very familiar with him, so I assume this is the year where he'll get some rope.

I agree this is what will happen. Hope your right and he runs with it.

 

[belair]

Shouldn’t be more expensive than Kulak+Futures for the same upgrade. But in your scenario a more expensive Ceci stays on the roster making the trade less realistic and we’d have a surplus at RD.

I don't view Desharnais as an every day skater.

Ekholm - Bouchard
Nurse - Trade Acquisition
Broberg - Ceci
Desharnais

Assuming trade acquisition is a rock defensively, Broberg and Bouchard remain somewhat sheltered. And the following summer you can trade Ceci and fill that role on the cheap.