Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Lavoie Vs. Pederson Vs. Sutter Vs. Gagner Vs. Caggiula

[Jimmi McJenkins]

This is extremely funny

 

[Mr Positive]

I think Broberg is about to find out how hard it is to play two way D in the NHL and i don't think he has the tacks for it. Took Brandt Clarke with LA all year to get some traction and i would suggest Broberg is no Clarke. Broberg's development curve will be quite a bit longer if at all.

Yes its hard to trade this asset for one of limited upside value. But it benefits the team 'this year' and maybe in the future.
I will take the cod fish now instead of the possible lobster catch tomorrow because were hungry now.

We can't know what Broberg really is. So far his trajectory is similar to Klefbom and Petry. Petry in particular had a rough start and was often ridiculed by fans. At Broberg's age he needs to hit his stride soon though. So what perfect time than now to finally push him into an NHL role and hope for the best? We just did this with Bouchard and Skinner. I'd say that's particularly important for defense because that is a weakness. One of the main benefits of young players is that their ceiling can shoot up fast. It would not be that strange for Broberg end up as our best defenseman given some time. He could also bust.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

This makes it extra funny

 

[TheNumber4]

I wonder where last years Team would have been if we used 6.1M on upgrades rather than on failed prospects like Yamo and Pool. General consensus for team building is that it’s smart to commit to your prospects and inject them into the lineup for cheap depth. But when the players are flawed, this does more harm than good. They take up valuable roster spots and they don’t even end up being very cheap cause of arbitration. You can’t even value these guys with their flaws included, cause once you give them that shot and they produce any numbers, the arbitrators will pay up on that production. I see Broberg similarly. A flawed prospect right from the get go that the Oilers will try to square peg into a round hole and inject into this line up. Eventually he’ll get paid and become worthless cause his value doesn’t meet the Cap hit.

 

[belair]

It takes a lot of traction to go against the CBA and get called up from the OHL to the NHL.

Yeah, he wasn't with LA very long last year. But watching him in Barrie, he's definitely a guy to be weary of in the coming years. They were smart not moving him for Chychrun.

He's got a very deceptive shot release. And he knows how to get pucks on net. Let's hope that Beau Akey learned from him last year and adds some of that to his game

 

[TheNumber4]

I don't view Desharnais as an every day skater.

Ekholm - Bouchard
Nurse - Trade Acquisition
Broberg - Ceci
Desharnais

Assuming trade acquisition is a rock defensively, Broberg and Bouchard remain somewhat sheltered. And the following summer you can trade Ceci and fill that role on the cheap.

I’d take Desharnais in a 3rd pair role. There’s risk of course but at that cap hit it’s minimal. I think if we are going to upgrade the RD it’s probably more realistic to shop with Ceci’s 3.25M rather than Kulak’s 2.75M. Whatever upgrade comes in will likely cost more Cap wise than either player.

 

[Anarchism]

We can't know what Broberg really is. So far his trajectory is similar to Klefbom and Petry. Petry in particular had a rough start and was often ridiculed by fans. At Broberg's age he needs to hit his stride soon though. So what perfect time than now to finally push him into an NHL role and hope for the best? We just did this with Bouchard and Skinner. I'd say that's particularly important for defense because that is a weakness. One of the main benefits of young players is that their ceiling can shoot up fast. It would not be that strange for Broberg end up as our best defenseman given some time. He could also bust.

Yes to all you said. I'm just saying i would if i were GM reduce the risk now. I think Broberg is a suspect and would trade him out for a guy with a bit of upside and solid defensively now.

 

[belair]

I wonder where last years Team would have been if we used 6.1M on upgrades rather than on failed prospects like Yamo and Pool. General consensus for team building is that it’s smart to commit to your prospects and inject them into the lineup for cheap depth. But when the players are flawed, this does more harm than good. They take up valuable roster spots and they don’t even end up being very cheap cause of arbitration. You can’t even value these guys with their flaws included, cause once you give them that shot and they produce any numbers, the arbitrators will pay up on that production. I see Broberg similarly. A flawed prospect right from the get go that the Oilers will try to square peg into a round hole and inject into this line up. Eventually he’ll get paid and become worthless cause his value doesn’t meet the Cap hit.

Yamamoto and Puljujarvi hit those second tier contracts. That was the issue. Not the fact that they were internally developed prospects.

Either one of these guys could have been flipped at some point prior to the extensions. A lot of us were hoping they would.

I don't see how Broberg would fall into those projections when there's very little likelihood that he sees the same offensive push. Yamamoto and Puljujarvi saw production in Edmonton's top six.

 

[Anarchism]

delete

 

[McDNicks17]

Yeah, he wasn't with LA very long last year. But watching him in Barrie, he's definitely a guy to be weary of in the coming years. They were smart not moving him for Chychrun.

He's got a very deceptive shot release. And he knows how to get pucks on net. Let's hope that Beau Akey learned from him last year and adds some of that to his game

I'm a big fan. His "skating concerns" were way overblown like most seem to be nowadays, IMO. He has a bit of a weird stride, but he's still an above average skater.

The dude oozes skill and smarts. He's got a good spot to develop in Durzi's role from last year.

 

[duul]

Yeah, he wasn't with LA very long last year. But watching him in Barrie, he's definitely a guy to be weary of in the coming years. They were smart not moving him for Chychrun.

He's got a very deceptive shot release. And he knows how to get pucks on net. Let's hope that Beau Akey learned from him last year and adds some of that to his game

I like aspects of Akey's game, but I've noted before you watch him play and he has the same flaws that Broberg and Nurse have, and players like Brandt Clarke don't. He simply takes way too long to do stuff with the puck. This is even mentioned right away in a few scouting reports on him, and is why he wasn't a surefire first rounder.

Akey has some of the nicest skating I've ever seen in a prospect, a genuine joy to watch. Even has a nice shot, but damn he takes forever to move the puck. If he can somehow figure that out he will be a stud. Brandt Clarke has been able to do that forever, so could Makar, guys like Hughes brothers, etc. They can all move the puck quickly as kids and never lose that quality. Not sure it's as easy to 'gain' that quality.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

This is extremely funny

That’s not funny.

 

[belair]

I’d take Desharnais in a 3rd pair role. There’s risk of course but at that cap hit it’s minimal. I think if we are going to upgrade the RD it’s probably more realistic to shop with Ceci’s 3.25M rather than Kulak’s 2.75M. Whatever upgrade comes in will likely cost more Cap wise than either player.

Desharnais as an everyday NHLer hurts you. And it hurts Kulak's on-ice results

Whatever upgrade comes in likely comes with retention or offsetting salaries. We're having this discussion way too early.

 

[TheNumber4]

We can't know what Broberg really is. So far his trajectory is similar to Klefbom and Petry. Petry in particular had a rough start and was often ridiculed by fans. At Broberg's age he needs to hit his stride soon though. So what perfect time than now to finally push him into an NHL role and hope for the best? We just did this with Bouchard and Skinner. I'd say that's particularly important for defense because that is a weakness. One of the main benefits of young players is that their ceiling can shoot up fast. It would not be that strange for Broberg end up as our best defenseman given some time. He could also bust.

Broberg trending to be Klef or Petry is a best case scenario. And it’s not even that great of a scenario. Those guys took a long time before they could help. And Petry didn’t even make it that long and wanted out. And by that point had little value.

Broberg is currently blocked on the right side. He may even lose patience with the organization and want out. So then we’ll be forced to pay up for a flawed player or just trade him for nothing as word gets out he wants out.

And for what payoff are we doing this all for? His ceiling sucks.

Yamamoto and Puljujarvi hit those second tier contracts. That was the issue. Not the fact that they were internally developed prospects.

Either one of these guys could have been flipped at some point prior to the extensions. A lot of us were hoping they would.

I don't see how Broberg would fall into those projections when there's very little likelihood that he sees the same offensive push. Yamamoto and Puljujarvi saw production in Edmonton's top six.

But if you stay committed to a prospect through hell and high water, ignoring whatever Red flags they may be throwing up, they all eventually will hit that second tier contract. Which means you have a flawed player being overpaid and there goes out the door any trade value they may have had.

Yeh we could have traded Yamo/Pool before extensions but we didn’t. Cause we thought magically Yamo might learn how to not to destroyed physically and we thought Pool might magically gain some finishing ability. With Broberg what will it be?

With D-men the arbitration won’t necessarily be based on production like with forwards. Minutes played could easily get Broberg paid more than what he’s worth.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Hmm.... Thought both had two years left.

You had me 2nd guessing myself haha.

 

[MessierII]

Maybe I'm pessimistic, but I have absolutely no faith in Holloway or Bougault. I'm patiently waiting on Broberg because I've seen instances where you can see a great dman there but I don't think either of our forwards are going to be anything more than bottom 6 players. I hope I eat massive crow.

I’m the opposite. I don’t see broberg amounting to much. A kulak level player maybe. I’m not 100% sold on Holloways offensive upside but he will be a good middle 6 player I think either way. Bourgault has the best overall offensive skill set in the system but he’s top 6 or bust.

 

[Mr Positive]

Yes to all you said. I'm just saying i would if i were GM reduce the risk now. I think Broberg is a suspect and would trade him out for a guy with a bit of upside and solid defensively now.

I wonder how much trade value he would really have. Plus even if we wanted to trade him, I'd think perhaps giving him more games might be a good way to boost his value.

 

[duul]

I’m the opposite. I don’t see broberg amounting to much. A kulak level player maybe. I’m not 100% sold on Holloways offensive upside but he will be a good middle 6 player I think either way. Bourgault has the best overall offensive skill set in the system but he’s top 6 or bust.

I watched Bourgault and see a Marchessault type. He's way more aggressive than people give him credit for, and has a nasty side. Maybe not as good in the corners yet as he has never really had to be in juniors, but I don't know if that's a trait Marchessault developed or always had through his life, which was that board battle capability.

Seeing Bourgault make some of the passes he did at last years Penticton tournament and even two years ago in the preseason, along with Bako highlights...can't see how we miss on him. He could play third line.

I really do have him as the darkhorse to make the club and all of you can take me to task on that one if he falters badly.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Edit : I won’t derail the thread haha

 

[TheNumber4]

Desharnais as an everyday NHLer hurts you. And it hurts Kulak's on-ice results

Whatever upgrade comes in likely comes with retention or offsetting salaries. We're having this discussion way too early.

At 775K only for a viable 3rd pair D-man, who sure will have his brain fart moments, m brings value to the team more than hurts it. Whatever savings we are getting paying only 775K for Vinny can be added to Ceci’s 3.25M to look for a mid to top pair RD upgrade.

 

[duul]

Whatever your stand point is on the vaccine it’s just not funny. He a young man with a family.

Imagine the kind of person you have to be to be laughing at someone's health failing them, now realize how this type of person may express themselves in all facets of life including how their thought process may work while posting on a hockey forum.

It's no wonder that particular person has never been capable of talking hockey in a productive manner. Besides the point I guess, but how disgusting.

 

[MessierII]

I watched Bourgault and see a Marchessault type. He's way more aggressive than people give him credit for, and has a nasty side. Maybe not as good in the corners yet as he has never really had to be in juniors, but I don't know if that's a trait Marchessault developed or always had through his life, which was that board battle capability.

Seeing Bourgault make some of the passes he did at last years Penticton tournament and even two years ago in the preseason, along with Bako highlights...can't see how we miss on him. He could play third line.

I really do have him as the darkhorse to make the club and all of you can take me to task on that one if he falters badly.

I don’t think he cracks it this year but next year he has a very good shot. We need Lavoie type more this year than Bourgault. Next year we’ll need someone cheap to fill in browns spot in the top 6 and I think that’s where Xavier can make an impact.

 

[duul]

I don’t think he cracks it this year but next year he has a very good shot. We need Lavoie type more this year than Bourgault. Next year we’ll need someone cheap to fill in browns spot in the top 6 and I think that’s where Xavier can make an impact.

Yea, a lot of people on here seem to have Lavoie over Bourgault this year, but I think we can agree most of us haven't watched both of them enough to make that prediction past a little stat watching.

Training camp should be exciting, I think Lavoie and Bourgault are battling for that open RW spot for sure.

 

[Anarchism]

I watched Bourgault and see a Marchessault type. He's way more aggressive than people give him credit for, and has a nasty side. Maybe not as good in the corners yet as he has never really had to be in juniors, but I don't know if that's a trait Marchessault developed or always had through his life, which was that board battle capability.

Seeing Bourgault make some of the passes he did at last years Penticton tournament and even two years ago in the preseason, along with Bako highlights...can't see how we miss on him. He could play third line.

I really do have him as the darkhorse to make the club and all of you can take me to task on that one if he falters badly.

I think your analysis of Bourgault is pretty good. But i do think he will eventually be top 6 or bust. His passing will be his calling card. Soft along the boards his nemesis. Don't think he gets his first real cup of coffee till the new year.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

That’s not funny.

??? It's extremely funny, didn't even get to training camp for the full buyer's remorse set in