Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Does Bowman Make His Mark on the Team Before Training Camp?

[SupremeTeam16]

It's standard procedure until it isn't though. This is the first real bump year post covid so the risk element was heightened. Fact it was talked about pre-free agency by the GM who laid the stink bomb was enough to raise antennas.

Every GM is going to feel different if they are the hunter or the prey. The old way or we've always done it this way approach to business has just been smoked. What I view favourably as a modern, creative thinking management group has just learned this hard reality.

Your example if I follow this is sportsmanship but what we're talking about here is business and business conducted within the bounds of agreed acceptance by all involved.

Well in racing it’s sportsmanship but it’s business too and without a level of mutual respect and understanding in certain situations, it can put everyone in an uncomfortable position.

If Jackson comes out and says yeah he got one over on us but we’ll look to do the same in the future. When Neighbors is an rfa next year do you think his agent is going to be in a hurry to sign a fair market deal? Or is he going to wait until free agency to see if an offer sheet comes? Jackson wouldn’t even have to necessarily tender an offer sheet the threat alone would be enough for Neighbors agent to use as leverage in negotiations to squeeze Armstrong. It could also screw up Armstrong by jamming up his summer if an offer sheet threat and an agent holding out means he’s unsure what he’s going to have to have earmarked.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Well in racing it’s sportsmanship but it’s business too and without a level of mutual respect and understanding in certain situations, it can put everyone in an uncomfortable position.

If Jackson comes out and says yeah he got one over on us but we’ll look to do the same in the future. When Neighbors is an rfa next year do you think his agent is going to be in a hurry to sign a fair market deal? Or is he going to wait until free agency to see if an offer sheet comes? Jackson wouldn’t even have to necessarily tender an offer sheet the threat alone would be enough for Neighbors agent to use as leverage in negotiations to squeeze Armstrong. It could also screw up Armstrong by jamming up his summer if an offer sheet threat and an agent holding out means he’s unsure what he’s going to have to have earmarked.

The above is interesting but irrelevant. The NHL CBA sets out the parameters for business.

I'd be surprised if Jackson's group betrays any emotion over this business transaction given both his deep experience on the agency side of NHL dealmaking and his personality type. It's either match or don't and set out on a new contingency plan for short-term and mid-term of this team's winning window phase. Irrelevant because the signed offer sheets are the story.

The Oilers threadbare in picks are like years and years away from any consideration of imagined retaliation. If they even take it personally given it is a fair practice. All NHL GMs are likely looking at their future RFA guys differently, Neighbours included, because business model has changed in how they do their business. Manage your cap at your peril.

In a great summer of dealmaking we see that established veterans will take less than market value to try to win. Young players will opt for financial security. Is this a universal truism? Not sure. Clouding this is also two players whose development wasn't managed very well. A strategic area Jackson's identified needs to improve along with poor amateur drafting which also stings in this hard reality.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

The above is interesting but irrelevant. The NHL CBA sets out the parameters for business.

I'd be surprised if Jackson's group betrays any emotion over this business transaction given both his deep experience on the agency side of NHL dealmaking and his personality type. It's either match or don't and set out on a new contingency plan for short-term and mid-term of this team's winning window phase. Irrelevant because the signed offer sheets are the story.

The Oilers threadbare in picks are like years and years away from any consideration of imagined retaliation. If they even take it personally given it is a fair practice. All NHL GMs are likely looking at their future RFA guys differently, Neighbours included, because business model has changed in how they do their business. Manage your cap at your peril.

In a great summer of dealmaking we see that established veterans will take less than market value to try to win. Young players will opt for financial security. Is this a universal truism? Not sure. Clouding this is also two players whose development wasn't managed very well. A strategic area Jackson's identified needs to improve along with poor amateur drafting which also stings in this hard reality.

The Oilers aren’t really threadbare for picks, after next years draft, they have all their picks minus a couple 4th rounders. If the business model has really changed and GM’s are moving on from a unified front on rfa’s to starting to utilize this legal mechanism as common practice then you can bet agents will be adapting to this changing landscape and will be exploiting the cracks in the gm front line and growing distrust to use it as leverage in negotiations. That was the whole point of the unspoken agreement of not going after vulnerable teams rfa’s because if everyone starts doing it then it drives up prices on young middling rfa contracts which will affect everyone’s ability to manage their cap as effectively.

Like I said, it doesn’t cost Jackson anything to make Armstrongs life harder next off season, if Neighbors has a good but not great season this year I’m sure Armstrong would like the opportunity to sign him at a reasonable cap hit but if Jackson or any other GM signals they’re going to look at offer sheets then Neighbors agent would be foolish to sign an extension with STL early, might as well wait into the summer and see if an offer sheet comes and use the possible threat of one as leverage in negotiations.

 

[bellagiobob]

Would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall during Holland and Armstrongs golf outings this week. Probably a few chuckles.

 

[ottawah]

Nurse isn't going anywhere. Ceci will be the one moving for an upgrade.

Trading Ceci is just not going to produce an upgrade. Players lesser than him at RHD as signing for more. Cheaper upgrades exist, but teams are just not trading them, not at that position. You can save 2 million, but you are downgrading. Yes you can upgrade, but that will cost some really good assets and add 3+M more to the budget.

Its not like Ceci is making Nurse money, he is making .5M below league average. He brings good value for that contract which is normally what you really do not want to trade when you are in cap hell, but with the say the team is structured top heavy and no movement/trade clauses, there really are no palatable options.

 

[foshizzle]

Trading Ceci is just not going to produce an upgrade. Players lesser than him at RHD as signing for more. Cheaper upgrades exist, but teams are just not trading them, not at that position. You can save 2 million, but you are downgrading. Yes you can upgrade, but that will cost some really good assets and add 3+M more to the budget.

Its not like Ceci is making Nurse money, he is making .5M below league average. He brings good value for that contract which is normally what you really do not want to trade when you are in cap hell, but with the say the team is structured top heavy and no movement/trade clauses, there really are no palatable options.

lol- he does not bring good value unless you call being badly outshot, outchanced, being hemmed in your zone, xGAR% below 2, good value

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Seeing news of how none of Broberg, Kulak, and Nurse like the prospect of playing RD, I still think the easiest fit is just to take the return from Broberg and flip it for a RHD version of Kulak (RE: nothing special, but a +skater with passable size, who excels at puck retrievals and transition.


For example, would you deal that 3rd or even 2nd for Dante Fabbro, who's slowly fallen out of favour in NASH but used to be Josi's full-time partner?

Ekholm-Bouch
Nurse-Fabbro
Kulak-Ceci
Stecher, Brown

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

The Oilers aren’t really threadbare for picks, after next years draft, they have all their picks minus a couple 4th rounders. If the business model has really changed and GM’s are moving on from a unified front on rfa’s to starting to utilize this legal mechanism as common practice then you can bet agents will be adapting to this changing landscape and will be exploiting the cracks in the gm front line and growing distrust to use it as leverage in negotiations. That was the whole point of the unspoken agreement of not going after vulnerable teams rfa’s because if everyone starts doing it then it drives up prices on young middling rfa contracts which will affect everyone’s ability to manage their cap as effectively.

Like I said, it doesn’t cost Jackson anything to make Armstrongs life harder next off season, if Neighbors has a good but not great season this year I’m sure Armstrong would like the opportunity to sign him at a reasonable cap hit but if Jackson or any other GM signals they’re going to look at offer sheets then Neighbors agent would be foolish to sign an extension with STL early, might as well wait into the summer and see if an offer sheet comes and use the possible threat of one as leverage in negotiations.

The Oilers are toothless if anyone thinks that they will move heaven and earth to attempt retaliation through a Neighbours offer sheet. They would need to re-acquire their 2nd and 1st round picks from two different teams. Churn even more assets to do so and anyone holding those picks likely premium price given them after seeing the low cost of business Dubas did to facilitate.

The Oilers farm system is among the league's bottom quarter with Savoie and a couple others two-three years from NHL job competition. They're going to have to find other means to bring NHL depth into their organization short and medium term. An old roster is missing a swath of emerging young talent to drag salary and sustain winning window which is Jackson's stated goal (and sales pitch to Draisaitl, McDavid and Bouchard).

The accountability falls to Oilers management. They got caught thinking an old way they've done business would hold and got their cheap value NHL ready pedigree assets plucked under their nose. They ignored all the signs with cap rising finally; the poacher's direct quote he would uncover all CBA mechanisms to improve their team; while neglecting their own home.

I'm really bullish on Jeff Jackson. But they got caught with their pants down on this. Will evaluate on how they move ahead with their decision from this poison pill coup.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Bruce Garrioch trolling hard, not moving Ceci with a sweetener would be shocking at this point.

Though none of it matters until Stan decides he wants to start work

 

[AM]

I am not sure how many times in the past there have been diametrically opposite positions presented that both made so much sense. Right or wrong I usually find it relatively easy to pick a side in something like this, but not this time. As each day passes I am genuinely more and more unsure of what the best path is here.

Then look at the intention of the players involved. Players who want to win a cup with the oilers don’t sign for other teams. That’s pretty obvious isn’t it?

 

[SupremeTeam16]

The Oilers are toothless if anyone thinks that they will move heaven and earth to attempt retaliation through a Neighbours offer sheet. They would need to re-acquire their 2nd and 1st round picks from two different teams. Churn even more assets to do so and anyone holding those picks likely premium price given them after seeing the low cost of business Dubas did to facilitate.

The Oilers farm system is among the league's bottom quarter with Savoie and a couple others two-three years from NHL job competition. They're going to have to find other means to bring NHL depth into their organization short and medium term. An old roster is missing a swath of emerging young talent to drag salary and sustain winning window which is Jackson's stated goal (and sales pitch to Draisaitl, McDavid and Bouchard).

The accountability falls to Oilers management. They got caught thinking an old way they've done business would hold and got their cheap value NHL ready pedigree assets plucked under their nose. They ignored all the signs with cap rising finally; the poacher's direct quote he would uncover all CBA mechanisms to improve their team; while neglecting their own home.

I'm really bullish on Jeff Jackson. But they got caught with their pants down on this. Will evaluate on how they move ahead with their decision from this poison pill coup.

If I’m not mistaken an offer sheet next offseason when Neighbors or anyone else that year is rfa, would be after draft so the oilers wouldn’t need to reacquire any picks because they have all of their 26 picks minus 4. If they don’t match Holloway and broberg they’d also likely have the cap flexibility and even possibly the need for a player like Neighbors. There’s enough there for a legit bluff to give Neighbors agent leverage against Armstrong.

The Oilers definitely errored in how they handled this situation and also in how they handled the development of these players but these guys were always projects and the point was to slow cook both to give them a better shot of reaching their potential but also to keep their cap hits down on second contracts. I guess Jackson shouldn’t have been so naive to the fact a gm would have the willingness or desperation to stray from accepted convention. It’s well within his right but if you’re gonna open that box then don’t be surprised if other gm’s look to ass f*** you when you’re inevitably in a bent over position. I do agree that the Oilers will need to be better at identifying undrafted players who fit their team/system to supplement their prospect pool but if it becomes open season on picking off other teams rfa’s they’d have another method to supplement their own system by robbing teams lacking high end talent of young players who’ve been underwhelming with lesser talent but could thrive next to a 97 or 29. Sign me up actually.

By the way, I feel like it’s not often our views differ enough to debate on something lol

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

If I’m not mistaken an offer sheet next offseason when Neighbors or anyone else that year is rfa, would be after draft so the oilers wouldn’t need to reacquire any picks because they have all of their 26 picks minus 4. If they don’t match Holloway and broberg they’d also likely have the cap flexibility and even possibly the need for a player like Neighbors. There’s enough there for a legit bluff to give Neighbors agent leverage against Armstrong.

The Oilers definitely errored in how they handled this situation and also in how they handled the development of these players but these guys were always projects and the point was to slow cook both to give them a better shot of reaching their potential but also to keep their cap hits down on second contracts. I guess Jackson shouldn’t have been so naive to the fact a gm would have the willingness or desperation to stray from accepted convention. It’s well within his right but if you’re gonna open that box then don’t be surprised if other gm’s look to ass f*** you when you’re inevitably in a bent over position. I do agree that the Oilers will need to be better at identifying undrafted players who fit their team/system to supplement their prospect pool but if it becomes open season on picking off other teams rfa’s they’d have another method to supplement their own system by robbing teams lacking high end talent of young players who’ve been underwhelming with lesser talent but could thrive next to a 97 or 29. Sign me up actually.

By the way, I feel like it’s not often our views differ enough to debate on something lol

You are right and I am WRONG! insert dunce cap emoji haha.

Still don't see this Oilers management twisting themselves into an emotional decision trying to right their mistake. That said, next year's free agency season is a lot way away with the Oilers locked on winning a Cup this year. Quite possible those cherry pick(s) will be fodder for roster finishing work.

Regarding the players, I'm more bullish than many with both Broberg and Holloway. Hard to onboard mature phase teams and even moreso ones that have had extreme volatility and frankly chaos like the Oilers. It hurt their development along with injuries. Both will begin to harness their raw abilities now with some battle testing in the hardest level of competition. There's a viable succession plan for both in Edmonton. However their next team is to be determined.

I always enjoy and respect our dialogue. Most often learn something along the way! Especially when I'm WRONG! haha.

 

[ottawah]

lol- he does not bring good value unless you call being badly outshot, outchanced, being hemmed in your zone, xGAR% below 2, good value

No, but if you want low 5v5 Goals Against, good penalty killing and low turnovers while playing the toughest minutes, he's your guy.

 

[McDNicks17]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1824158170631041271

If we're leaning into that villain arc...we've now (maybe) got a hole at #4LW...just sayin

 

[Fourier]

Then look at the intention of the players involved. Players who want to win a cup with the oilers don’t sign for other teams. That’s pretty obvious isn’t it?

It's not entirely black and white. It may well be true but if you look at the Broberg deal that one would have been almost impossible for him to turn down if he was being offered something like $1.3M to $1.5M. When your career earnings are less than $1M its pretty hard to pass on an additional $6M when you have yet to establish yourself in the league. That deal comes pretty close to ensuring financial security for life if he is smart.

But I am looking at this from a position of what makes the most sense for the Oilers. The problem we have is that we don't know if Kane will be on LTIR for the whole year. If he was then a match for one or both might well make sense from an asset management perspective and I really emphasize might because I am not at all convinced this is the case. It would be a significant risk but if both players had good years you could trade either or both next August for more than the compensation if you needed the space. If Kane is not out for the season though I don't see a realistic way to match Broberg. They would have to trade both Kulak and Ceci and that is too big a risk.

I don't think either player would ruffle any feathers in the room but where an issue might arise is with the fans. The pressure on either to earn their dollars would be immense, especially on Broberg.

 

[Fourier]

No, but if you want low 5v5 Goals Against, good penalty killing and low turnovers while playing the toughest minutes, he's your guy.

Can you provide any evidence to support these claims. If I use these numbers:

PuckIQ | Woodmoney

Hockey Analytics

puckiq.com

it looks to me that of the six regular defensemen last year he played the 4th least minutes vs elite competition and had the worst GA/60 vs elites of the six with the second lowest GF% in that situation.

 

[ottawah]

Can you provide any evidence to support these claims. If I use these numbers:

PuckIQ | Woodmoney

Hockey Analytics

puckiq.com

it looks to me that of the six regular defensemen last year he played the 4th least minutes vs elite competition and had the worst GA/60 vs elites of the six with the second lowest GF% in that situation.

Time against elite I find a very flawed stat. Near half of the regulars in the NHL are considered elite.

What matters more is deployment. Having to start and play in your own end consistently causes that. Check all "Defensive" D men in the league, they are pretty much universally < 50% O Zone starts, a much better metric.

Based on the original stats, Parayako is a worse D man than Ceci, but we simply know its not true.

 

[Canovin]

The Oilers could get Hall for the price of Holloway. Double retention.

 

[brentashton]

The Oilers could get Hall for the price of Holloway. Double retention.

Ship. Sailed.

Old, often injured.

Just say no.

 

[Vagabond]

Here's an interesting snippet.. not really a good outlook on them trying to trade Ceci and Kulak. Stating they'd have to give up a 1st with Ceci just to move him.

Report: Edmonton Oilers exploring Cody Ceci, Brett Kulak trades to clear cap space for offer sheets | TSN

The Edmonton Oilers are exploring the possibility of moving defencemen Cody Ceci and Brett Kulak to help clear cap space, Postmedia's Bruce Garrioch reports.

www.tsn.ca

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Ship. Sailed.

Old, often injured.

Just say no.

The Hall infatuation will never die.

 

[Louis Cypher]

Lefty Righty shouldn't be the focus. Improving the d should.
Nurse/Ceci are soooooo bad that subtracting one is priority #1, and since Nurse contract is immovable, Ceci should be moved at all costs

Play D on their wrong side will not improve the D.

 

[brentashton]

The Hall infatuation will never die.

If I hear he’s building a house in the west end in this thread, I might jump off that “end of the world” structure.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Here's an interesting snippet.. not really a good outlook on them trying to trade Ceci and Kulak. Stating they'd have to give up a 1st with Ceci just to move him.

Report: Edmonton Oilers exploring Cody Ceci, Brett Kulak trades to clear cap space for offer sheets | TSN

The Edmonton Oilers are exploring the possibility of moving defencemen Cody Ceci and Brett Kulak to help clear cap space, Postmedia's Bruce Garrioch reports.

www.tsn.ca

The Oilers aren’t giving up 1st/2nd round picks to drop Ceci and Kulak, just so they can overpay Broberg.

 

[Vagabond]

The Oilers aren’t giving up 1st/2nd round picks to drop Ceci and Kulak, just so they can overpay Broberg.

I fooking hope not. Lol