Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Does Bowman Make His Mark on the Team Before Training Camp?

[jukon]

It will be interesting to see what the move is.

My guess is both Kulak and Ceci get traded for Brandon Saad.

 

[McShogun99]

Kulak hasn't been that good. He's exactly average. It's ridiculous how he gets talked about. Ceci on the third pairing is likely better than Kulak on the third pairing.

You definitely move both if you can find cheaper alternatives.

Kulak’s brain dead read cost us the cup on the winning goal in game 7.

I really hope they go into the season planning to try the Nurse/Bouchard pairing again. Ekholm is going to slow down at some point so it’d be wise to see if that’s a viable option going forward while also letting him directly mentor Broberg by being his partner for a good chunk of time.

I’d start the season with Nurse-Bouchard since you can always go back to Ekholm at any point. If Bouchard is going to get paid he needs to prove that he can be elite 5x5 away from Ekholm.

 

[thesandman77]

It will be interesting to see what the move is.

My guess is both Kulak and Ceci get traded for Brandon Saad.

Saad is a American with a ntc ,I doubt it.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

You said "there's literally none that are better".

To which, I replied thats not true because it isn't.

You asked who?

I just gave you 14 players that are arguably better than Ceci but you are being a blowhard.

you left out the part about it being at the deadline to create a false narrative. What's your point that there's unavailable dmen at the deadline?

You also listed a group of dmen on worst teams playing less minutes producing at a worse rate and labelled them 'arguably better' with no semblance of an argument.

 

[brentashton]

Or Kulak

But I think you move Ceci, if possible, in a cheap way, way ahead of Kulak.

Kulak>>Ceci

 

[brentashton]

Kulak’s brain dead read cost us the cup on the winning goal in game 7.


I’d start the season with Nurse-Bouchard since you can always go back to Ekholm at any point. If Bouchard is going to get paid he needs to prove that he can be elite 5x5 away from Ekholm.

Every player makes mistakes through the course of a game. Make a mistake late in the game without any time to recover is tough but come on, there was so much time left to recover, but collectively rhe team couldn’t.

Kulak has provided solid play more often than not.

I won’t vilify him for that play. But go ahead I guess.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

So then you are trading Kulak to be cap compliant?

Make up your damn mind.

Can you elaborate?

Yes, I prefer Kulak than Ceci. Yes, I believe the defense is safer keeping Ceci than Kulak.

Ideally I'd prefer a Ceci trade that brings back an upgrade with term. I just don't expect that option to be out there and we'd screw ourselves trading him away now and hoping and praying that option falls on our lap at the deadline.

Are you able to have this conversation without getting personal?

 

[McDoused]

Can you elaborate?

Yes, I prefer Kulak than Ceci. Yes, I believe the defense is safer keeping Ceci than Kulak.

Ideally I'd prefer a Ceci trade that brings back an upgrade with term. I just don't expect that option to be out there and we'd screw ourselves trading him away now and hoping and praying that option falls on our lap at the deadline.

Are you able to have this conversation without getting personal?

I'm frustrated with your posts because frankly they aren't very clear.

Are you saying that depsite you preferring Kulak over Ceci (you've said this multiple times) that you would still trade Kulak and keep Ceci? To me it sounds like you want to trade Kulak (even though by your own opinion he's better and cheaper) because we won't be able to replace Ceci on the right side.

Your reasoning for wanting Ceci was that you dont believe that Broberg will succeed in that spot. However, we already know that Ceci has proven time and time again that he is also not going to succeed in that spot.

Also, if we trade Kulak it creates a hole on the left side? Would you move Broberg to the left side and put Ceci back in the top 4? Again I really don't see the vision here.

I thought Broberg looked fantastic in the later stages of the playoffs on Nurse's right. I just don't know if it's a level of play he can sustain for 100 games next season on his off-side. Seems risky to gamble on given the fact that if he faulters our next man up would be, what, Josh Brown? And what happens when Bouchard or Broberg miss any sort of time for injury.

I get that Ceci isn't the extra cap that we can't afford, but it's also one of the most detrimental positions that will cost us big time if we're undermanned.

Regardless of how good you think Ceci is, he is not the answer for our top 4. He just doesn't work with Nurse regardless of how good you think he is. I think we need a right shot dman than can move the puck to play with Nurse and that's just not Ceci.

Im also annoyed because you asked me for a list (names is what you said) of dmen that I thought were better dmen on expiring contracts. Then you get upset because you don't agree with the list and that I didnt "provide an argument" while immediately dismissing my opinion. Now you're entitled to your opinion but to me Cody Ceci is a massive detriment if he's in the top 4. He's also not worth his contract on the bottom pair. Every single one of those players IMO would be better defensive player than Ceci at a fraction of the price. Hell, I'd rather play Stetcher over Ceci.

Either way, I'm not wasting anymore of my time trying to persuade you that ceci is garbage and needs to be traded.

 

[FlameChampion]

I'm not saying their is a plethora of free agent right shot dmen. They don't have to be free agents. But let's give you a list anyways.

Guys that are clearly better:

1. Noah Dobson
2. Brent Burns
3. Adam Larsson
4. Aaron Ekblad
5. Shea Theodore
6. Neal Pionk
7. Jake McCabe

Guys that are arguably better / might be better:

1. Dante Fabbro
2. Jeff Petry
3. Henri Jokiharju
4. Will Borgen
5. David Savard
6. Jan Rutta
7. Nick Perbix

Regardless , I think youre missing the point. It's not about if Ceci is actually better than his replacement (which wouldn'tbe hard). It's that we can't afford Ceci now and someone has to be traded. The Oilers aren't cap compliant. If we accrue cap space, we can upgrade at the deadline.

Basically either Ceci moves or Kulak.

Finding a RD just sucks. But hopefully Broberg either establishes himself or one becomes available at the trade deadline. At least I have some confidence that Jackson will at least be able to target one. He also filled a bunch of holes so we don’t need 3-4 guys at the deadline. Its clear what the need is so we should at least be able to make an upgrade.

I still think we’re pretty much f*cked with a Nurse though. Trying to add a partner to such a flawed player isn’t great. Hopefully between the offseason and another year of KK/PC, he bounces back. But sadly I think he’s been declining every year since the Canadian division.

 

[MessierII]

Finding a RD just sucks. But hopefully Broberg either establishes himself or one becomes available at the trade deadline. At least I have some confidence that Jackson will at least be able to target one. He also filled a bunch of holes so we don’t need 3-4 guys at the deadline. Its clear what the need is so we should at least be able to make an upgrade.

I still think we’re pretty much f*cked with a Nurse though. Trying to add a partner to such a flawed player isn’t great. Hopefully between the offseason and another year of KK/PC, he bounces back. But sadly I think he’s been declining every year since the Canadian division.

As weird as it was broberg on the nurses right side was the only thing that made nurse competent. Crazy that we had to move a rookie coming in to his offside to make one of our highest played players and highest paid d man by a country mile work but it is what it is.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

As weird as it was broberg on the nurses right side was the only thing that made nurse competent. Crazy that we had to move a rookie coming in to his offside to make one of our highest played players and highest paid d man by a country mile work but it is what it is.

That duo got shit on in the finals didn't they?

 

[McBooya42]

That duo got shit on in the finals didn't they?

Kind of, yes. There was some luck involved with any success they did have.

Is Philip Broberg a viable option on the right side in the Oilers’ top-four?

<span style="font-weight: 400">The signings of <a href="https://publis...

oilersnation.com

 

[ottawah]

As weird as it was broberg on the nurses right side was the only thing that made nurse competent. Crazy that we had to move a rookie coming in to his offside to make one of our highest played players and highest paid d man by a country mile work but it is what it is.

What worked was reducing Nurses deployment toughness. That coincided with the change to Broberg as D partner.

I really hope they go into the season planning to try the Nurse/Bouchard pairing again. Ekholm is going to slow down at some point so it’d be wise to see if that’s a viable option going forward while also letting him directly mentor Broberg by being his partner for a good chunk of time.

I agree, Nurse just cannot handle tough deployments, its been shown for three years. Ceci fared much better away from Nurse and looked good with Ceci when they played together (PK). Give Ceci a competent defensive D man and that could be a much stronger shutdown pair the any other on the team, while Nurse is competent enough offensively to slide in with Bouchard in the offensive deployment.

 

[ottawah]

I'm not saying their is a plethora of free agent right shot dmen. They don't have to be free agents. But let's give you a list anyways.

Guys that are clearly better:

1. Noah Dobson
2. Brent Burns
3. Adam Larsson
4. Aaron Ekblad
5. Shea Theodore
6. Neal Pionk
7. Jake McCabe

Guys that are arguably better / might be better:

1. Dante Fabbro
2. Jeff Petry
3. Henri Jokiharju
4. Will Borgen
5. David Savard
6. Jan Rutta
7. Nick Perbix

Regardless , I think youre missing the point. It's not about if Ceci is actually better than his replacement (which wouldn'tbe hard). It's that we can't afford Ceci now and someone has to be traded. The Oilers aren't cap compliant. If we accrue cap space, we can upgrade at the deadline.

Basically either Ceci moves or Kulak.

Fabbro does not kill penalties nor generally plays as a defensive D man.
Petry at least plays some PK and the defensive aspect of the game, but bleeds goals compared to Ceci.
Jokiharju doesn't do much PK, but is young enough he can likely grow into the role.
Borgen pretty much the same as Jokiharju.
Savard fits the role, but bleeds goals at a tremendous rate.
Rutta may be the best of the bunch, role fits. Bled goals last year but over his career thats an abberation not a trend and it was SJ. Make 2.75M, saves 500K only.
Perbix doesn't really kill penalties and has some higher GA numbers, but with only a few years in its hard to say.

When I look at it, I just try to take Ceci out of my mind, and think of the role. Sure there are better D men than Ceci, but can they do that role? You want players who are running up 3 minutes of PK time a game, guys who are over the past half dozen years running a 2.5 GA/60 or lower, guys who are commonly sub 40% offensive zone starts. And playing against top competition, you want guys who do not cough up the puck.

Sure, you can get better puck movers, but if it is costing you an extra .5 goals against per game, they are not making that up offensively.

 

[McDoused]

What worked was reducing Nurses deployment toughness. That coincided with the change to Broberg as D partner.


I agree, Nurse just cannot handle tough deployments, it's been shown for three years. Ceci fared much better away from Nurse and looked good with Ceci when they played together (PK). Give Ceci a competent defensive D man and that could be a much stronger shutdown pair the any other on the team, while Nurse is competent enough offensively to slide in with Bouchard in the offensive deployment.

Thats kind of the problem, isn't it? We just can't afford a Kulak-Ceci 3rd pair.

We can sit here and complain about the Nurse contract but I just don't see a world where he is moved. We are stuck with Nurse and need to bring in someone better suited to play with him.

The only way I see us keeping Ceci, is if we move Broberg down to the bottom pair and have him play with Ceci. Then we still have a huge hole beside Nurse in the top 4.

 

[FlameChampion]

Thats kind of the problem, isn't it? We just can't afford a Kulak-Ceci 3rd pair.

We can sit here and complain about the Nurse contract but I just don't see a world where he is moved. We are stuck with Nurse and need to bring in someone better suited to play with him.

The only way I see us keeping Ceci, is if we move Broberg down to the bottom pair and have him play with Ceci. Then we still have a huge hole beside Nurse in the top 4.

The problem is really Nurse. When the going gets tough, he just sort of falls apart. Hes somewhat passable in the regular season though. But like you said, I don’t know how or if you can move him.

Team just doesn’t have the cap to play Kulak-Ceci on the bottom pairing. Paying bottom pairing guys $2-3m is pretty normal for most teams but unfortunately it doesn’t really work for our team. Between Nurse, Kane, Kulak and Ceci, somebody has to move. The last two are much easier to move.

 

[Canovin]

Thats kind of the problem, isn't it? We just can't afford a Kulak-Ceci 3rd pair.

We can sit here and complain about the Nurse contract but I just don't see a world where he is moved. We are stuck with Nurse and need to bring in someone better suited to play with him.

The only way I see us keeping Ceci, is if we move Broberg down to the bottom pair and have him play with Ceci. Then we still have a huge hole beside Nurse in the top 4.

NMC doesn't mean much anymore. I highly doubt he wants to be on a team where everyone is on team friendly deals and exceeding while he's the only overpaid player and playing bottom pairing and the city starts giving it to him even more. Well can't blame the fans. The guy got greedy.

After RNH, Barrie, Hyman took discounts. Nurse took the most he could possibly get. That says everything about him

 

[McDoused]

Fabbro does not kill penalties nor generally plays as a defensive D man.
Petry at least plays some PK and the defensive aspect of the game, but bleeds goals compared to Ceci.
Jokiharju doesn't do much PK, but is young enough he can likely grow into the role.
Borgen pretty much the same as Jokiharju.
Savard fits the role, but bleeds goals at a tremendous rate.
Rutta may be the best of the bunch, role fits. Bled goals last year but over his career thats an abberation not a trend and it was SJ. Make 2.75M, saves 500K only.
Perbix doesn't really kill penalties and has some higher GA numbers, but with only a few years in its hard to say.

When I look at it, I just try to take Ceci out of my mind, and think of the role. Sure there are better D men than Ceci, but can they do that role? You want players who are running up 3 minutes of PK time a game, guys who are over the past half dozen years running a 2.5 GA/60 or lower, guys who are commonly sub 40% offensive zone starts. And playing against top competition, you want guys who do not cough up the puck.

Sure, you can get better puck movers, but if it is costing you an extra .5 goals against per game, they are not making that up offensively.

Say it with me, Cody Ceci is not a good defenceman.

Let's take a look at the numbers. Lets start with his HDCF% last year during the regular season. He was literally the worst on the team 5v5 when it came to High Danger chances.

He only got worse in the playoffs. He is not someone that you want on the ice when you have a lead with the bad reads and plays.

You might say, McDoused that's just one metric. Here is his CF% 5v5 which was 7th worst on the team (only slightly better than the 1 game Kemp played and the 12 games Broberg played).

What about the playoffs? Once again, he was worse in the playoffs than the regular season with a 42.42 CF%.

You might not be a fan of corsi, so lets take a look at a few more metrics.

During the regular season he was 8th among dmen for SF% 5v5. This means that on a team that usually played in the offensive zone, he struggled to break even.

As you can imagine this only got worse in the playoffs where his SF% went down to 44.31. He was hemmed in his own zone too often compared to the test of the defence. As a leader and a guy getting paid more, he should have better numbers.

Still not convinved? Of the 9 defenceman that played for us last year, guess who had the team worst xGF% 5v5? Thats right, Cody Ceci with 52.88%.

How about the playoffs? Much worse at 37.36%.

Finally, he also was 6th among dmen for SCF% 5v5 with 52.10% during the regular season.

Once again he was even worse in the playoffs with 38.14%.

I'm all for acquiring a guy who can help bring down our goals against. Ceci has been a massive hole defensively this year. I actually think that whoever comes in will need to be better at transitioning the puck and spend less time in their own zone..

 

[McShogun99]

Say it with me, Cody Ceci is not a good defenceman.

Let's take a look at the numbers. Lets start with his HDCF% last year during the regular season. He was literally the worst on the team 5v5 when it came to High Danger chances.

View attachment 900508

He only got worse in the playoffs. He is not someone that you want on the ice when you have a lead with the bad reads and plays.

View attachment 900509

You might say, McDoused that's just one metric. Here is his CF% 5v5 which was 7th worst on the team (only slightly better than the 1 game Kemp played and the 12 games Broberg played).

View attachment 900503

What about the playoffs? Once again, he was worse in the playoffs than the regular season with a 42.42 CF%.

View attachment 900510

You might not be a fan of corsi, so lets take a look at a few more metrics.

During the regular season he was 8th among dmen for SF% 5v5. This means that on a team that usually played in the offensive zone, he struggled to break even.

View attachment 900504

As you can imagine this only got worse in the playoffs where his SF% went down to 44.31. He was hemmed in his own zone too often compared to the test of the defence. As a leader and a guy getting paid more, he should have better numbers.

View attachment 900511

Still not convinved? Of the 9 defenceman that played for us last year, guess who had the team worst xGF% 5v5? Thats right, Cody Ceci with 52.88%.

View attachment 900512

How about the playoffs? Much worse at 37.36%.

View attachment 900513

Finally, he also was 6th among dmen for SCF% 5v5 with 52.10% during the regular season.

View attachment 900516

Once again he was even worse in the playoffs with 38.14%.

View attachment 900514

I'm all for acquiring a guy who can help bring down our goals against. Ceci has been a massive hole defensively this year. I actually think that whoever comes in will need to be better at transitioning the puck and spend less time in their own zone..

This shows that our defence is pretty weak outside of Ekholm-Bouchard but Ceci has been bad for most of his career. You replace Ceci with a competent Dman and it will make the bottom 4 much better. Nurse’s numbers will improve by having a reliable partner and Kulak/Broberg number will improve by taking on lesser competition.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

This shows that our defence is pretty weak outside of Ekholm-Bouchard but Ceci has been bad for most of his career. You replace Ceci with a competent Dman and it will make the bottom 4 much better. Nurse’s numbers will improve by having a reliable partner and Kulak/Broberg number will improve by taking on lesser competition.

It might show that...or it might show Ceci's effect on the rest of the group.

Eitherway, Ceci isn't good and doesn't need to be here.

I will say it AGAIN. If all the happens is Broberg plays his off side and Ceci is gone, the team is Better than they were before.

 

[Canovin]

It might show that...or it might show Ceci's effect on the rest of the group.

Eitherway, Ceci isn't good and doesn't need to be here.

I will say it AGAIN. If all the happens is Broberg plays his off side and Ceci is gone, the team is Better than they were before.

With or without Ceci, the team is already better than before

 

[jukon]

Can we stop bashing Ceci until after he's traded?

Y'all going to wonder why we got a pathetic return for the guy after talking shit about him all summer.

Kulak and Ceci are great players. I just wish we had the cap space to keep both of them.

 

[McDoused]

This shows that our defence is pretty weak outside of Ekholm-Bouchard but Ceci has been bad for most of his career. You replace Ceci with a competent Dman and it will make the bottom 4 much better. Nurse’s numbers will improve by having a reliable partner and Kulak/Broberg number will improve by taking on lesser competition.

I mean Bouchard and Ekholm are one of the best pairings in the league and tend to get a lot of time with the top unit.

Having said that, when your numbers are comparable to rookies or guys making less than you, it typically means that you aren't getting the value you need.

Ceci does play a lot on the PK, which is more of a team stat than anything. Having said that I did try to break down the penalty kill numbers. Here is the CA / 60. Ceci is ranked as the 2nd highest corsi against / 60 on the PK.

Ceci is also the highest in shots against / 60 on the PK.

His GA / 60 is pretty mid despite having a high expected GA / 60.

Ceci tends to give up a lot of scoring changes.

He also struggles with high danger changes.

Here is what it looks like all together, albeit Stetcher, Broberg and Bouchard played so little on the PK, they should probably be removed.

 

[Canovin]

Can we stop bashing Ceci until after he's traded?

Y'all going to wonder why we got a pathetic return for the guy after talking shit about him all summer.

Kulak and Ceci are great players. I just wish we had the cap space to keep both of them.

Nurse has been turning our players into cap casualties. How Kulak is tradebait is beyond me.

 

[McDoused]

Can we stop bashing Ceci until after he's traded?

Y'all going to wonder why we got a pathetic return for the guy after talking shit about him all summer.

Kulak and Ceci are great players. I just wish we had the cap space to keep both of them.

OH RIGHT.

He's definitely a player. He logged a lot of minutes on a team that went to game 7 of the Stanley cup finals. Definitely a glue guy that teammates love...

If you aren't an Edmonton fan, please ignore all the data and graphs that were just posted.