jukon
NHL Point Leader
- Mar 17, 2011
- 3,491
- 2,121
It will be interesting to see what the move is.
My guess is both Kulak and Ceci get traded for Brandon Saad.
My guess is both Kulak and Ceci get traded for Brandon Saad.
Kulak’s brain dead read cost us the cup on the winning goal in game 7.Kulak hasn't been that good. He's exactly average. It's ridiculous how he gets talked about. Ceci on the third pairing is likely better than Kulak on the third pairing.
You definitely move both if you can find cheaper alternatives.
I’d start the season with Nurse-Bouchard since you can always go back to Ekholm at any point. If Bouchard is going to get paid he needs to prove that he can be elite 5x5 away from Ekholm.I really hope they go into the season planning to try the Nurse/Bouchard pairing again. Ekholm is going to slow down at some point so it’d be wise to see if that’s a viable option going forward while also letting him directly mentor Broberg by being his partner for a good chunk of time.
Saad is a American with a ntc ,I doubt it.It will be interesting to see what the move is.
My guess is both Kulak and Ceci get traded for Brandon Saad.
You said "there's literally none that are better".
To which, I replied thats not true because it isn't.
You asked who?
I just gave you 14 players that are arguably better than Ceci but you are being a blowhard.
But I think you move Ceci, if possible, in a cheap way, way ahead of Kulak.Or Kulak
Every player makes mistakes through the course of a game. Make a mistake late in the game without any time to recover is tough but come on, there was so much time left to recover, but collectively rhe team couldn’t.Kulak’s brain dead read cost us the cup on the winning goal in game 7.
I’d start the season with Nurse-Bouchard since you can always go back to Ekholm at any point. If Bouchard is going to get paid he needs to prove that he can be elite 5x5 away from Ekholm.
So then you are trading Kulak to be cap compliant?
Make up your damn mind.
Can you elaborate?
Yes, I prefer Kulak than Ceci. Yes, I believe the defense is safer keeping Ceci than Kulak.
Ideally I'd prefer a Ceci trade that brings back an upgrade with term. I just don't expect that option to be out there and we'd screw ourselves trading him away now and hoping and praying that option falls on our lap at the deadline.
Are you able to have this conversation without getting personal?
I thought Broberg looked fantastic in the later stages of the playoffs on Nurse's right. I just don't know if it's a level of play he can sustain for 100 games next season on his off-side. Seems risky to gamble on given the fact that if he faulters our next man up would be, what, Josh Brown? And what happens when Bouchard or Broberg miss any sort of time for injury.
I get that Ceci isn't the extra cap that we can't afford, but it's also one of the most detrimental positions that will cost us big time if we're undermanned.
I'm not saying their is a plethora of free agent right shot dmen. They don't have to be free agents. But let's give you a list anyways.
Guys that are clearly better:
1. Noah Dobson
2. Brent Burns
3. Adam Larsson
4. Aaron Ekblad
5. Shea Theodore
6. Neal Pionk
7. Jake McCabe
Guys that are arguably better / might be better:
1. Dante Fabbro
2. Jeff Petry
3. Henri Jokiharju
4. Will Borgen
5. David Savard
6. Jan Rutta
7. Nick Perbix
Regardless , I think youre missing the point. It's not about if Ceci is actually better than his replacement (which wouldn'tbe hard). It's that we can't afford Ceci now and someone has to be traded. The Oilers aren't cap compliant. If we accrue cap space, we can upgrade at the deadline.
Basically either Ceci moves or Kulak.
As weird as it was broberg on the nurses right side was the only thing that made nurse competent. Crazy that we had to move a rookie coming in to his offside to make one of our highest played players and highest paid d man by a country mile work but it is what it is.Finding a RD just sucks. But hopefully Broberg either establishes himself or one becomes available at the trade deadline. At least I have some confidence that Jackson will at least be able to target one. He also filled a bunch of holes so we don’t need 3-4 guys at the deadline. Its clear what the need is so we should at least be able to make an upgrade.
I still think we’re pretty much f*cked with a Nurse though. Trying to add a partner to such a flawed player isn’t great. Hopefully between the offseason and another year of KK/PC, he bounces back. But sadly I think he’s been declining every year since the Canadian division.
That duo got shit on in the finals didn't they?As weird as it was broberg on the nurses right side was the only thing that made nurse competent. Crazy that we had to move a rookie coming in to his offside to make one of our highest played players and highest paid d man by a country mile work but it is what it is.
Kind of, yes. There was some luck involved with any success they did have.That duo got shit on in the finals didn't they?
What worked was reducing Nurses deployment toughness. That coincided with the change to Broberg as D partner.As weird as it was broberg on the nurses right side was the only thing that made nurse competent. Crazy that we had to move a rookie coming in to his offside to make one of our highest played players and highest paid d man by a country mile work but it is what it is.
I agree, Nurse just cannot handle tough deployments, its been shown for three years. Ceci fared much better away from Nurse and looked good with Ceci when they played together (PK). Give Ceci a competent defensive D man and that could be a much stronger shutdown pair the any other on the team, while Nurse is competent enough offensively to slide in with Bouchard in the offensive deployment.I really hope they go into the season planning to try the Nurse/Bouchard pairing again. Ekholm is going to slow down at some point so it’d be wise to see if that’s a viable option going forward while also letting him directly mentor Broberg by being his partner for a good chunk of time.
Fabbro does not kill penalties nor generally plays as a defensive D man.I'm not saying their is a plethora of free agent right shot dmen. They don't have to be free agents. But let's give you a list anyways.
Guys that are clearly better:
1. Noah Dobson
2. Brent Burns
3. Adam Larsson
4. Aaron Ekblad
5. Shea Theodore
6. Neal Pionk
7. Jake McCabe
Guys that are arguably better / might be better:
1. Dante Fabbro
2. Jeff Petry
3. Henri Jokiharju
4. Will Borgen
5. David Savard
6. Jan Rutta
7. Nick Perbix
Regardless , I think youre missing the point. It's not about if Ceci is actually better than his replacement (which wouldn'tbe hard). It's that we can't afford Ceci now and someone has to be traded. The Oilers aren't cap compliant. If we accrue cap space, we can upgrade at the deadline.
Basically either Ceci moves or Kulak.
What worked was reducing Nurses deployment toughness. That coincided with the change to Broberg as D partner.
I agree, Nurse just cannot handle tough deployments, it's been shown for three years. Ceci fared much better away from Nurse and looked good with Ceci when they played together (PK). Give Ceci a competent defensive D man and that could be a much stronger shutdown pair the any other on the team, while Nurse is competent enough offensively to slide in with Bouchard in the offensive deployment.
Thats kind of the problem, isn't it? We just can't afford a Kulak-Ceci 3rd pair.
We can sit here and complain about the Nurse contract but I just don't see a world where he is moved. We are stuck with Nurse and need to bring in someone better suited to play with him.
The only way I see us keeping Ceci, is if we move Broberg down to the bottom pair and have him play with Ceci. Then we still have a huge hole beside Nurse in the top 4.
NMC doesn't mean much anymore. I highly doubt he wants to be on a team where everyone is on team friendly deals and exceeding while he's the only overpaid player and playing bottom pairing and the city starts giving it to him even more. Well can't blame the fans. The guy got greedy.Thats kind of the problem, isn't it? We just can't afford a Kulak-Ceci 3rd pair.
We can sit here and complain about the Nurse contract but I just don't see a world where he is moved. We are stuck with Nurse and need to bring in someone better suited to play with him.
The only way I see us keeping Ceci, is if we move Broberg down to the bottom pair and have him play with Ceci. Then we still have a huge hole beside Nurse in the top 4.
Fabbro does not kill penalties nor generally plays as a defensive D man.
Petry at least plays some PK and the defensive aspect of the game, but bleeds goals compared to Ceci.
Jokiharju doesn't do much PK, but is young enough he can likely grow into the role.
Borgen pretty much the same as Jokiharju.
Savard fits the role, but bleeds goals at a tremendous rate.
Rutta may be the best of the bunch, role fits. Bled goals last year but over his career thats an abberation not a trend and it was SJ. Make 2.75M, saves 500K only.
Perbix doesn't really kill penalties and has some higher GA numbers, but with only a few years in its hard to say.
When I look at it, I just try to take Ceci out of my mind, and think of the role. Sure there are better D men than Ceci, but can they do that role? You want players who are running up 3 minutes of PK time a game, guys who are over the past half dozen years running a 2.5 GA/60 or lower, guys who are commonly sub 40% offensive zone starts. And playing against top competition, you want guys who do not cough up the puck.
Sure, you can get better puck movers, but if it is costing you an extra .5 goals against per game, they are not making that up offensively.
This shows that our defence is pretty weak outside of Ekholm-Bouchard but Ceci has been bad for most of his career. You replace Ceci with a competent Dman and it will make the bottom 4 much better. Nurse’s numbers will improve by having a reliable partner and Kulak/Broberg number will improve by taking on lesser competition.Say it with me, Cody Ceci is not a good defenceman.
Let's take a look at the numbers. Lets start with his HDCF% last year during the regular season. He was literally the worst on the team 5v5 when it came to High Danger chances.
View attachment 900508
He only got worse in the playoffs. He is not someone that you want on the ice when you have a lead with the bad reads and plays.
View attachment 900509
You might say, McDoused that's just one metric. Here is his CF% 5v5 which was 7th worst on the team (only slightly better than the 1 game Kemp played and the 12 games Broberg played).
View attachment 900503
What about the playoffs? Once again, he was worse in the playoffs than the regular season with a 42.42 CF%.
View attachment 900510
You might not be a fan of corsi, so lets take a look at a few more metrics.
During the regular season he was 8th among dmen for SF% 5v5. This means that on a team that usually played in the offensive zone, he struggled to break even.
View attachment 900504
As you can imagine this only got worse in the playoffs where his SF% went down to 44.31. He was hemmed in his own zone too often compared to the test of the defence. As a leader and a guy getting paid more, he should have better numbers.
View attachment 900511
Still not convinved? Of the 9 defenceman that played for us last year, guess who had the team worst xGF% 5v5? Thats right, Cody Ceci with 52.88%.
View attachment 900512
How about the playoffs? Much worse at 37.36%.
View attachment 900513
Finally, he also was 6th among dmen for SCF% 5v5 with 52.10% during the regular season.
View attachment 900516
Once again he was even worse in the playoffs with 38.14%.
View attachment 900514
I'm all for acquiring a guy who can help bring down our goals against. Ceci has been a massive hole defensively this year. I actually think that whoever comes in will need to be better at transitioning the puck and spend less time in their own zone..
It might show that...or it might show Ceci's effect on the rest of the group.This shows that our defence is pretty weak outside of Ekholm-Bouchard but Ceci has been bad for most of his career. You replace Ceci with a competent Dman and it will make the bottom 4 much better. Nurse’s numbers will improve by having a reliable partner and Kulak/Broberg number will improve by taking on lesser competition.
With or without Ceci, the team is already better than beforeIt might show that...or it might show Ceci's effect on the rest of the group.
Eitherway, Ceci isn't good and doesn't need to be here.
I will say it AGAIN. If all the happens is Broberg plays his off side and Ceci is gone, the team is Better than they were before.
This shows that our defence is pretty weak outside of Ekholm-Bouchard but Ceci has been bad for most of his career. You replace Ceci with a competent Dman and it will make the bottom 4 much better. Nurse’s numbers will improve by having a reliable partner and Kulak/Broberg number will improve by taking on lesser competition.
Nurse has been turning our players into cap casualties. How Kulak is tradebait is beyond me.Can we stop bashing Ceci until after he's traded?
Y'all going to wonder why we got a pathetic return for the guy after talking shit about him all summer.
Kulak and Ceci are great players. I just wish we had the cap space to keep both of them.
Can we stop bashing Ceci until after he's traded?
Y'all going to wonder why we got a pathetic return for the guy after talking shit about him all summer.
Kulak and Ceci are great players. I just wish we had the cap space to keep both of them.