Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Broberg, Holloway and Ceci are Gone, Do We Add Another D Before Camp?

[TheNumber4]

Demko and now Silovs with knee issues. Gonna be interesting in Vancouver this fall.

Nucks crashing and burning this season will be hilarious. It’s just too bad they’ll blame it on the goaltending when we know they should just admit they are PDO frauds.

 

[FlameChampion]

Demko and now Silovs with knee issues. Gonna be interesting in Vancouver this fall.

They better hope that PDO doesn’t also have an injury.

Probably lucky that the west has so many weak teams.

 

[McShogun99]

Ceci is now valuable since he’s no longer an oiler.

Last year lots of people wanted in stecher for him

Ceci is a good 3rd pairing Dman. He's only valuable to us now because the only sure thing on our RD is Bouchard.

 

[The Nuge]

Nucks crashing and burning this season will be hilarious. It’s just too bad they’ll blame it on the goaltending when we know they should just admit they are PDO frauds.

It’s just like Canuck fans to blame goaltending. They did it for years even when they had Luongo, and they did it last year despite Silovs literally being the best player on the team in the playoffs.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Treaded water? He's been a regular 23+ minute a night defender for the past seven seasons with next to no PP. He plays a lot with McDavid, but he's also faced the other teams top threats for years.

Down season last year and his role has changed because we now have Ekholm.

Nurse is an important player on that defense. If he regresses to a point where he can't play top four minutes, this team is in deep trouble.

His baseline is a double digit EV scoring and 30 point producing d-man, 20 minutes+ toi, with key situational play that tilts heavily to own zone defending. The team need forever has been a quality 2RD to upgrade and provide smart, structured defending support that mitigates Nurse's impulsive tendencies for poor decisions that involve leaving home plate defending to chase opposition into low risk areas on ice. Partner and team defense suffers when this unpredictable tendency happens.

 

[CanadasTeam99]

Nucks crashing and burning this season will be hilarious. It’s just too bad they’ll blame it on the goaltending when we know they should just admit they are PDO frauds.

You hate to see it......Just kidding....I cannot stand them

 

[Juxta Position]

Say what now? In 10 years he had 2 brief stretches where he looked solid. A few months w/ Bear and a few months w/ Ceci.
The entire covid season was an absolute joke
and should be omitted.

As for post seasons, he's an absolute mess.

Legitimate top pairing???? Not in this universe

then should McDavid's Hart, Lindsay and Art Ross be omitted from that year as well? Just because it was an unconventional season doesn't take away what the players actually did on the ice.

The recency bias on Nurse is outrageous, when he is playing well he's overpaid by about 2.5-3 mil a year. but because his second half of the year and playoffs were really bad, that's all people remember, but it doesn't mean he's a terrible player, and according to some, always has been.. Nurse is a legitimate top 4 Dman, and when he's really on his game a top 2 Dman, and he's proven that in almost a decade of NHL hockey.

the fact his contract is ridiculous clouds too many people's opinions on what kind of player he actually is.

 

[ManByng]

It’s just like Canuck fans to blame goaltending. They did it for years even when they had Luongo, and they did it last year despite Silovs literally being the best player on the team in the playoffs.

Yup, Canuck fans needed an excuse as to why they lost to the Oilers in the playoffs so they blamed Silovs because he was “inexperienced” and “wasn't Demko” when clearly the rest of the league saw that he stood on his head and was the Canucks best player in that series! You just lost the series like the Oilers did in the finals, it happens!

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

then should McDavid's Hart, Lindsay and Art Ross be omitted from that year as well? Just because it was an unconventional season doesn't take away what the players actually did on the ice.

The recency bias on Nurse is outrageous, when he is playing well he's overpaid by about 2.5-3 mil a year. but because his second half of the year and playoffs were really bad, that's all people remember, but it doesn't mean he's a terrible player, and according to some, always has been.. Nurse is a legitimate top 4 Dman, and when he's really on his game a top 2 Dman, and he's proven that in almost a decade of NHL hockey.

the fact his contract is ridiculous clouds too many people's opinions on what kind of player he actually is.

Considering that it's the norm for McDavid? Absolutely not.

The problem with Nurse is that he shot double his career sh% in a weak division and management bought that as the norm going forward.

Nobody would say with any sincerity that Nurse is a terrible player. He's not, but he's paid to be far better than he actually is. And you talk about recency bias when both Colorado and Vegas absolutely cratered him in back to back years.

He was a top 2 D-man for one year. Mattias Ekholm came in and absolutely lapped him.

 

[foshizzle]

in the league? no...on the Oilers? yes, his ES outscoring metrics were great prior to last season

Stetcher was playing bottom pairing minutes on an AWFUL defense on an AWFUL Yotes team....but suddenly gonna come here on a great team and play up the lineup?

Again, you don’t know how to do proper analysis.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

that's a big ask for a guy who hasn't played top 4 minutes in 6 years

Stetcher is a game little f***er who's sustained a solid journeyman career in the NHL. However the pattern is as teams improve (notably the Canucks) his ice-time drops and he's moved to bad teams. On bad teams his minutes increase and he's been spun off for low returns to playoff teams as insurance depth.

In LA his regular season toi (18:34) looks juiced likely because Doughty was injured. His playoff toi (16:58) in 4 of 7 games played was 6th for their d-man & looked like split ice-time with an age 20 RD Jordan Spence who played 3 games (18:01 toi). Back further even Canucks bubble playoff he was 5th in d toi (16:58); 4th highest DZ starts; and sporter of a 107.7 PDO. He was also gone from the improving Canucks team the next season.

He's a solid insurance policy for good teams per the career arch. Reflected in the Oilers cheap x2 deal which is likely a poison pill waiver protection. Same with Brown's x3 year deal. Can move up lineup as shown on non-playoff teams but really a 3RD/7th of good teams.

Small, below NHL 50 percentile for speed, non-point producer, he's sustained an NHL career on moxie and no doubt a solid processor. I give full credit for the character. But just don't inflate his value on really good hockey teams.

 

[VeteranPresence]

Stetcher is a game little f***er who's sustained a solid journeyman career in the NHL. However the pattern is as teams improve (notably the Canucks) his ice-time drops and he's moved to bad teams. On bad teams his minutes increase and he's been spun off for low returns to playoff teams as insurance depth.

In LA his regular season toi (18:34) looks juiced likely because Doughty was injured. His playoff toi (16:58) in 4 of 7 games played was 6th for their d-man & looked like split ice-time with an age 20 RD Jordan Spence who played 3 games (18:01 toi). Back further even Canucks bubble playoff he was 5th in d toi (16:58); 4th highest DZ starts; and sporter of a 107.7 PDO. He was also gone from the improving Canucks team the next season.

He's a solid insurance policy for good teams per the career arch. Reflected in the Oilers cheap x2 deal which is likely a poison pill waiver protection. Same with Brown's x3 year deal. Can move up lineup as shown on non-playoff teams but really a 3RD/7th of good teams.

I remember liking Stecher a lot in VAN and LA, but you are bang on that his usage was not that of a #4. These days he should be viewed as a #6/7 and his pay reflects that. I do not expect him to be a top four at any point when fully healthy between Emberson getting a healthy audition (needs 50 GP to retain him) and possibly a cheap one-year gamble like Barrie or TDA.

 

[Juxta Position]

Considering that it's the norm for McDavid? Absolutely not.

The problem with Nurse is that he shot double his career sh% in a weak division and management bought that as the norm going forward.

Nobody would say with any sincerity that Nurse is a terrible player. He's not, but he's paid to be far better than he actually is. And you talk about recency bias when both Colorado and Vegas absolutely cratered him in back to back years.

He was a top 2 D-man for one year. Mattias Ekholm came in and absolutely lapped him.

And we all agree management overpaid for him, that's not up for debate by anybody. but the hyperbole surrounding what Nurse actually does because management signed him to a terrible contract is unreal.

the fact that he is paid to be far better than he actually is, is not his fault, it's managements, and he would've been an idiot to turn it down. But because his contract is bad, people blow out of proportion how bad of a player he is.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I remember liking Stecher a lot in VAN and LA, but you are bang on that his usage was not that of a #4.. These days he should be viewed as a #6/7 at this point in his career and his pay reflects that. I do not expect him to be a top four at any point when fully healthy between Emberson getting a healthy audition (needs 50 GP to retain him) and possibly a cheap one-year gamble like Barrie or TDA.

He does alot with a lot of disadvantages for apex competition. High character, grit and determination matters with a good processor. It's kept him in the NHL. Emberson's age, size, and proof points with Oil head coach warrants a test-drive to see if there's a squint possibility of NHL top 4 potential on a very good team. Really though I see a big donut hole at 2RD with three third-pair/7th d-men on the depth chart. Ceci's big minutes with defensive zone tilt, point production, and PK is harder to fill than I think many anticipate.

 

[Thomas Tatar]

Smells like a Swayman offer sheet from Van.

 

[bobbythebrain]

then should McDavid's Hart, Lindsay and Art Ross be omitted from that year as well? Just because it was an unconventional season doesn't take away what the players actually did on the ice.

The recency bias on Nurse is outrageous, when he is playing well he's overpaid by about 2.5-3 mil a year. but because his second half of the year and playoffs were really bad, that's all people remember, but it doesn't mean he's a terrible player, and according to some, always has been.. Nurse is a legitimate top 4 Dman, and when he's really on his game a top 2 Dman, and he's proven that in almost a decade of NHL hockey.

the fact his contract is ridiculous clouds too many people's opinions on what kind of player he actually is.

Yes. McDs stats are just as irrelevant, or atleast to be taken with a massive asterisk. That's not even a knock on him.

Several players like Ovechkin already admitted their teams mailed it in and didn't want to play.

Nurse contract is also irrelevant to me. It's his play. My opinion has been the same since day one. Screening goalies, poor passing, needless icing, rims and reverses.

Seems you're the one making this about his contract

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Again, you don’t know how to do proper analysis.

but you do...you look at a chart and declare a player a top 4
top 4 d-men play top 4 minutes...it's simple

 

[McDNicks17]

I think the Stecher/Emberson need to be a top4 D argument is a kind of moot. Ceci wasn't a top4 D either. The difference is Stecher/Emberson eventually give you enough cap space to bring in a real top4 D.

Also, Emberson could easily develop into a #4D too considering the results he had play playing as San Jose's #2D in a small sample size.

 

[McJadeddog]

I think the Stecher/Emberson need to be a top4 D argument is a kind of moot. Ceci wasn't a top4 D either. The difference is Stecher/Emberson eventually give you enough cap space to bring in a real top4 D.

Also, Emberson could easily develop into a #4D too considering the results he had play playing as San Jose's #2D in a small sample size.

This is a good point, but I would point our that although none of the players in question are actually a 2nd pairing Dman on a good team, that Ceci is still the best player of the 3 of them. Yes, the cap savings is worth a lot, and I would further argue its worth more than the difference in ability between Ceci and Stecher/Emberson. The fact remains that Ceci is very likely the best of the bunch.

I will admit that Emberson is intriguing, however I would still expect that Ceci will be a better player than him next year, and likely by a fair margin.

 

[belair]

Smells like a Swayman offer sheet from Van.

That would be belligerent and incredibly poor asset management. But I'm here for it if it happens.

 

[K1984]

Demko and now Silovs with knee issues. Gonna be interesting in Vancouver this fall.

I can see it now as the team sits in 10th while team shooting % is half of what it was last year:

"ITS ALL BECAUSE OF THE GOALIES THAT WERE HURT!"

Just like the laughable excuse that they would have rolled over us last year if only Demko were healthy. Was strange that Silovs was being touted as a rookie goalie saviour to the level of Cam Ward and Ken Dryden (comp was literally and laughably drug out in a pre-game segment) only for him to actually be the reason they lost once the dust settled.

Couldn't be because little "let's go Petey" was a zero impact player, couldn't be because Quinn Hughes stunk the whole series, couldn't be because their defensive and forward depth players were horrendous - it was the goalie. Much easier to sleep at night when it's the goalie.

 

[nabob]

This is a good point, but I would point our that although none of the players in question are actually a 2nd pairing Dman on a good team, that Ceci is still the best player of the 3 of them. Yes, the cap savings is worth a lot, and I would further argue its worth more than the difference in ability between Ceci and Stecher/Emberson. The fact remains that Ceci is very likely the best of the bunch.

I will admit that Emberson is intriguing, however I would still expect that Ceci will be a better player than him next year, and likely by a fair margin.

For a fair margin of games last season Ceci’s play warranted him being in the press box.

 

[oXo Cube]

I can see it now as the team sits in 10th while team shooting % is half of what it was last year:

"ITS ALL BECAUSE OF THE GOALIES THAT WERE HURT!"

Just like the laughable excuse that they would have rolled over us last year if only Demko were healthy. Was strange that Silovs was being touted as a rookie goalie saviour to the level of Cam Ward and Ken Dryden (comp was literally and laughably drug out in a pre-game segment) only for him to actually be the reason they lost once the dust settled.

Couldn't be because little "let's go Petey" was a zero impact player, couldn't be because Quinn Hughes stunk the whole series, couldn't be because their defensive and forward depth players were horrendous - it was the goalie. Much easier to sleep at night when it's the goalie.

Well according to their fans games Demko doesn't dress for don't count so the Nucks will be fine I guess.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

This is a good point, but I would point our that although none of the players in question are actually a 2nd pairing Dman on a good team, that Ceci is still the best player of the 3 of them. Yes, the cap savings is worth a lot, and I would further argue its worth more than the difference in ability between Ceci and Stecher/Emberson. The fact remains that Ceci is very likely the best of the bunch.

I will admit that Emberson is intriguing, however I would still expect that Ceci will be a better player than him next year, and likely by a fair margin.

Ceci may be the better player but Emberson may be the better suited player to what the Oilers want/need, how a player skillset fits the role can make a big difference so while Ceci may be the better player overall, Emberson could perform better in the role the Oilers need and I think that has a lot to do with the Ceci trade beyond just the cap savings. With Ceci he was an offensive defender who needed to round out his game to stick but by no means was his defensive game ever his strong suit. With Emberson the defensive game encompasses many of his natural strengths.

I won’t be shocked at all if Emberson comes in and fits like a glove for what they want in that 4 spot.

 

[WaitingForUser]

His baseline is a double digit EV scoring and 30 point producing d-man, 20 minutes+ toi, with key situational play that tilts heavily to own zone defending. The team need forever has been a quality 2RD to upgrade and provide smart, structured defending support that mitigates Nurse's impulsive tendencies for poor decisions that involve leaving home plate defending to chase opposition into low risk areas on ice. Partner and team defense suffers when this unpredictable tendency happens.

Nurse for better or worse tries to emulate the partner he has. When paired with a puck mover he tends to play a more puck transporting style. Not a puck moving style because he can’t make a very good outlet pass but he can skate the puck up really well. When he was with Barrie this worked well because they fed off each other. When paired with a shutdown d man he tries to play a shutdown role. This is not his strong suit at all and usually ends up with him kicking or deflecting pucks into his own net. The moral of the story is GIVE NURSE A PUCK MOVER