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[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

and ELC's.

Yes those as well but if I’m not mistaken they are cookie cutter clauses from the CBA and can’t be customized the way 35+ contracts can be. A lot of them have language not on a specific number of points but rather being in the top 5 scorers of the team, minutes played averages and the like. Things that do not need to be prorated is my point.

 

[McXLNC97]

If the league gives Calgary the pick because Neal "likely would have scored 21 goals" (or whatever the condition is) sets a very, very dangerous precedent going forward.

It's not going to happen. It's just reporters looking to fill air time.

Agree...thing is, Neal didn't even have a goal in 2020. He was goal less in 13 games since he last scored which was on New Years Eve. He could have easily gone 11 more games without getting 2 more goals. Also what was to say that if the season hadn't been halted that Neal didn't suffer another injury which could have shut him down for the rest of the regular season. Also, are players going to get rounded up to 50 goals, or 100 pts to hit performance bonuses because they were "on pace" to do it?....highly doubt it.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Those are standard ELC contracts from the CBA so yes those count as well. But prorating them doesn’t matter in most cases due to the clauses not being proratable.

Is there specific language regarding players standard elc that says point totals for the purpose of performance bonuses will not be pro rated in the event of an unforeseen disruption in the season?

If the league wants to pro rate Neals stats to fulfill a condition of a trade then, unless there is specific wording in the cba, players with potential bonuses could argue they’re stats be pro rated as well. There’s an arguement to be made there

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Is there specific language regarding players standard elc that says point totals for the purpose of performance bonuses will not be pro rated in the event of an unforeseen disruption in the season?

If the league wants to pro rate Neals stats to fulfill a condition of a trade then, unless there is specific wording in the cba, players with potential bonuses could argue they’re stats be pro rated as well. There’s an arguement to be made there

ELCs are different than 35+ in that the bonuses used in ELC’s is for things like most points on the team, being in the top 3 for plus/minus or ice time or average power play time, things like that which means you can’t prorate it. That is my point.

As for prorating specific items like points or games played for 35+ contracts it would not surprise me if it were in there that it can’t be pro rated (perhaps due to injury) but I’ve never read an NHL player contract so I don’t know.

If language is not there then an argument can be made either way.

In any case all this will have to be negotiated out in the next few months if not next few weeks between the NHL and NHLPA.

So long as Calgary doesn’t get our 3rd.

 

[Fourier]

Agree. NHL can’t play “what if” scenarios. If they move the trade requirements to the 2021 season what happens if Neal and / or Lucic gets bought out, a likely scenario with Neal at least if the cap stays flat or even decreases and there are no compliance buyouts allowed. (Reported by Elliott Friedman that owners do not want compliance buyouts).

In that case, and I agree it is possible, the clause is not met.

I think most of us agree that the right decision is that the clause is not met. But this is the NHL. I'll wait and see how they handle this before believing that the rational solution is what happens.

 

[Fourier]

generally 2 picks from a round will get you 1 pick in the round just previous. So two 4ths are roughly right value for a 3rd, and if I'm wrong on the value, fine, make it a 5th. That's not the critically important part of my post anyway. It's about the idea of adding to the 4th we give to make up the difference.

That is a bad trade for the team giving up the two picks. Statistically there is very little difference in the success rate between the 3rd and 4th round.

Not that this chart is perfect or anything but it does represent a detailed statistical study of the relative value of an NHL draft pick.

http://statsportsconsulting.com/main/wp-content/uploads/Schuckers_NHL_Draftchart.pdf

But if you don't like this take a look at the players chosen in the later rounds of say the drafts in 2007-2008 through 2013-2014 (or any collection of years really) and see which ones have had any real success in the NHL. It should be fairly clear that 2 lottery tickets are better than one with "slightly nicer numbers".

 

[Fourier]

NHL contracts end July 1.

Unless the League and the NHLPA agree otherwise.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Unless the League and the NHLPA agree otherwise.

That is where the fun begins. Not all contract lawyers agree that they can simply do that

 

[Fourier]

That is where the fun begins. Not all contract lawyers agree that they can simply do that

It is literally in the players SPC. The contract ends at the end a playing year which is either June 30th or on a date mutually agreed upon by the League and the NHLPA. Seems pretty black and white to me.


Added in: Or so I thought. Here is the wording on the definition of League year:

"League Year" means the period from July 1 of one calendar year to and
including June 30 of the following calendar year or such other one year period to which the NHL
and the NHLPA may agree.

The key being the one year part. This seems to complicate the matter at least for contracts that were multi-year. The way the contract is written though would seem to still allow the League year to be redefined as including something like September to August as the League year of the 2019-2020 season.

 

[Mr Positive]

That is a bad trade for the team giving up the two picks. Statistically there is very little difference in the success rate between the 3rd and 4th round.

Not that this chart is perfect or anything but it does represent a detailed statistical study of the relative value of an NHL draft pick.

http://statsportsconsulting.com/main/wp-content/uploads/Schuckers_NHL_Draftchart.pdf

But if you don't like this take a look at the players chosen in the later rounds of say the drafts in 2007-2008 through 2013-2014 (or any collection of years really) and see which ones have had any real success in the NHL. It should be fairly clear that 2 lottery tickets are better than one with "slightly nicer numbers".

well it looks like by that chart, a 4th+5th should be good value for a 3rd. So that should be enough. But if you just need to have the same number of picks you could always get creative and have Calgary add a 6th.

The main idea of my post is that if we do not have a season, but still have playoffs, then a compromise with Calgary could be made around how the playoffs go for Neal vs Lucic. That is in the spirit of the conditional pick in the trade. If we can fight and win to have no re-negotiated conditions, I'm all for it, but it looks like the league is on the side of teams like Calgary on this. If we don't negotiate, we likely just give up the 3rd.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

well it looks like by that chart, a 4th+5th should be good value for a 3rd. So that should be enough. But if you just need to have the same number of picks you could always get creative and have Calgary add a 6th.

The main idea of my post is that if we do not have a season, but still have playoffs, then a compromise with Calgary could be made around how the playoffs go for Neal vs Lucic. That is in the spirit of the conditional pick in the trade. If we can fight and win to have no re-negotiated conditions, I'm all for it, but it looks like the league is on the side of teams like Calgary on this. If we don't negotiate, we likely just give up the 3rd.

The spirit of the conditional pick is that Calgary can go f*** themselves if conditions aren’t met.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I certainly don't miss Talbot's troll "goaltending".

Love him as a person but my lord get your head in the game. Just waiting on the 1st garbage shot to go in was beyond annoying.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Looking at our roster I still feel our greatest need is a legit 3C, I like both Haas and Sheahan but in my opinion neither are adequate for the role.

Who are some guys either through trade or UFA that you guys think might be a realistic fit? Guys like Kerfoot if Leafs need to shed cap, maybe Haula as a UFA depending on his price tag. Tyson Jost from Ava maybe available?

 

[belair]

Looking at our roster I still feel our greatest need is a legit 3C, I like both Haas and Sheahan but in my opinion neither are adequate for the role.

Who are some guys either through trade or UFA that you guys think might be a realistic fit? Guys like Kerfoot if Leafs need to shed cap, maybe Haula as a UFA depending on his price tag. Tyson Jost from Ava maybe available?

It would be nice to get someone who actually has some effectiveness in the D zone. Maybe there's a vet with a bit of cash/term left on his deal that could be flipped for shorter term money like KRussell.

 

[LTIR]

Looking at our roster I still feel our greatest need is a legit 3C, I like both Haas and Sheahan but in my opinion neither are adequate for the role.

Who are some guys either through trade or UFA that you guys think might be a realistic fit? Guys like Kerfoot if Leafs need to shed cap, maybe Haula as a UFA depending on his price tag. Tyson Jost from Ava maybe available?

I think handedness matters as well. Ideally we pick up a right handed 3C who can PK and is cheap. Takes away a lot of potential ones.
Hopefully Holland is shooting higher than a Lias Andersson to fill the void.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Looking at our roster I still feel our greatest need is a legit 3C, I like both Haas and Sheahan but in my opinion neither are adequate for the role.

Who are some guys either through trade or UFA that you guys think might be a realistic fit? Guys like Kerfoot if Leafs need to shed cap, maybe Haula as a UFA depending on his price tag. Tyson Jost from Ava maybe available?

I think Haula is an excellent choice.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

It would be nice to get someone who actually has some effectiveness in the D zone. Maybe there's a vet with a bit of cash/term left on his deal that could be flipped for shorter term money like KRussell.

That would be ideal in my eyes but I dunno who fits that bill.

But yeah key for me in a 3C is drives possession, knows his way around his own end and doesn’t mind starting there, can pk and Can chip in with some good secondary offense.

 

[Nostradumbass]

I think handedness matters as well. Ideally we pick up a right handed 3C who can PK and is cheap. Takes away a lot of potential ones.
Hopefully Holland is shooting higher than a Lias Andersson to fill the void.

What about Ryan Strome? I heard he's a pretty good RH 3C that can PK.

 

[belair]

What about Ryan Strome? I heard he's a pretty good RH 3C that can PK.

He was kinda not great at any of that though. He'd be an upgrade on what we have now, but Strome is a bit of a tweener who needs a guy like Panarin to really improve his effectiveness.

 

[duul]

So, there's an NHL quality LW in Leipsic available for free. Would be an upgrade over Khaira, etc. Might be better to try and stray away from certain players though admittedly.

Kassian worked out wonderfully, and we know he had similar issues to Leipsic. Ask anyone who knew him in his junior or early NHL days. He was able to turn it around. I'm 100% sure that Kass WAS talking just as badly about other people as Leipsic was. Hell, I know 100% for a fact that a lot of people on the Oilers current roster still talk in this manner.

Anyway, maybe it's not worth it. Leipsic had been thrown around a bunch of different teams as an extra guy. Too good for the AHL, and not REALLY good enough to be playing big minutes in the NHL.

Honestly, the only reason at all that I could understand not taking a flyer on him would be that he chirped McDavid's girlfriend's legs (lol). For that reason I suppose he would be a no-go, as his skill isn't worth that. Similar to the Brandon Manning debacle bringing him here in the first place. Chiarelli is a moron in case some of you somehow forgot.

Anyway, hope you're all doing well.

 

[Llamamoto]

So, there's an NHL quality LW in Leipsic available for free. Would be an upgrade over Khaira, etc. Might be better to try and stray away from certain players though admittedly.

Kassian worked out wonderfully, and we know he had similar issues to Leipsic. Ask anyone who knew him in his junior or early NHL days. He was able to turn it around. I'm 100% sure that Kass WAS talking just as badly about other people as Leipsic was. Hell, I know 100% for a fact that a lot of people on the Oilers current roster still talk in this manner.

Anyway, maybe it's not worth it. Leipsic had been thrown around a bunch of different teams as an extra guy. Too good for the AHL, and not REALLY good enough to be playing big minutes in the NHL.

Honestly, the only reason at all that I could understand not taking a flyer on him would be that he chirped McDavid's girlfriend's legs (lol). For that reason I suppose he would be a no-go, as his skill isn't worth that. Similar to the Brandon Manning debacle bringing him here in the first place. Chiarelli is a moron in case some of you somehow forgot.

Anyway, hope you're all doing well.

We better stay far away from Leipsic.

 

[Darkwinter]

So, there's an NHL quality LW in Leipsic available for free. Would be an upgrade over Khaira, etc. Might be better to try and stray away from certain players though admittedly.

Kassian worked out wonderfully, and we know he had similar issues to Leipsic. Ask anyone who knew him in his junior or early NHL days. He was able to turn it around. I'm 100% sure that Kass WAS talking just as badly about other people as Leipsic was. Hell, I know 100% for a fact that a lot of people on the Oilers current roster still talk in this manner.

Anyway, maybe it's not worth it. Leipsic had been thrown around a bunch of different teams as an extra guy. Too good for the AHL, and not REALLY good enough to be playing big minutes in the NHL.

Honestly, the only reason at all that I could understand not taking a flyer on him would be that he chirped McDavid's girlfriend's legs (lol). For that reason I suppose he would be a no-go, as his skill isn't worth that. Similar to the Brandon Manning debacle bringing him here in the first place. Chiarelli is a moron in case some of you somehow forgot.

Anyway, I hope you're all doing well.

when Chia brought Manning over that was just to f*** the oilers overall and he knew what he was doing. His time had run out with the oilers and he could see the writing on the wall

 

[ImmuneEH]

My thoughts on how to manage JP, curious what others think.

My solution: Package JP with our 2nd in 2020 and move up into a mid-1st round pick.

Why?

• We have a strong enough roster as it is now to make the playoffs.
• We hung around the playoff race virtually all year with numerous injuries & before the additions of Yams, Athanasiou, and Ennis.
• It's my opinion that this organization is about to have some success. This is a move to sustain this success long into the future. Think if Chia used his first rounders in 2015 instead of spending them on Reinhart.

I'm not advocating that we don't upgrade the roster. Instead, I'd suggest instead of trading picks to upgrade the roster now, I wait until the deadline of 2021 to trade picks to plug holes apparent then that might not be apparent now.

What do you do about 3C? Ideally Holland signs some cheap players that can potentially help at C. Sheahan & Athanasiou seem to be our main options. This is something I'd upgrade at the deadline.

So what do you use the 2020 1st round picks on?

• We have a pretty strong set of D-prospects, so this isn't a concern to me in the early rounds.
• I'd definitely pick up a couple of forwards. I'm not sure who I'd target, but I like a lot of the forwards in this draft.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

My thoughts on how to manage JP, curious what others think.

My solution: Package JP with our 2nd in 2020 and move up into a mid-1st round pick.

Why?

• We have a strong enough roster as it is now to make the playoffs.
• We hung around the playoff race virtually all year with numerous injuries & before the additions of Yams, Athanasiou, and Ennis.
• It's my opinion that this organization is about to have some success. This is a move to sustain this success long into the future. Think if Chia used his first rounders in 2015 instead of spending them on Reinhart.

I'm not advocating that we don't upgrade the roster. Instead, I'd suggest instead of trading picks to upgrade the roster now, I wait until the deadline of 2021 to trade picks to plug holes apparent then that might not be apparent now.

What do you do about 3C? Ideally Holland signs some cheap players that can potentially help at C. Sheahan & Athanasiou seem to be our main options. This is something I'd upgrade at the deadline.

So what do you use the 2020 1st round picks on?

• We have a pretty strong set of D-prospects, so this isn't a concern to me in the early rounds.
• I'd definitely pick up a couple of forwards. I'm not sure who I'd target, but I like a lot of the forwards in this draft.

We don't have a 2nd this year. Athanasiou trade.

 

[Jumptheshark]

We don't have a 2nd this year. Athanasiou trade.

or next year