Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread | Rishaug: Expect Swedish FA Theodor Lennstrom Signing

[CupofOil]

If the season does not continue, I think we need to prepare ourselves to lose that pick and that will be that. Too many talking heads seem to agree on that and with the NHL being the NHL, I think they will side with the flames

BS, that's just you looking at the extreme negative like you always do.
You can prepare yourself for that, I'll prepare for reality and the reality is that nothing is written in stone and there's no reason to hand the pick over to the Flames based on some fake prorated clause. It MIGHT happen because the NHL likes to make things up as they go along but it's far from a given and you can be damn sure that Holland will fight it tooth and nail if the Flames try to cheat their way to getting the pick.

Which talking heads are you referencing? Eric Francis?
Do you have any links to unbiased talking heads saying that the Flames will get the pick?

 

[Jumptheshark]

BS, that's just you looking at the extreme negative like you always do.
You can prepare yourself for that, I'll prepare for reality and the reality is that nothing is written in stone and there's no reason to hand the pick over to the Flames based on some fake prorated clause.

Which talking heads are you referencing? Eric Francis?
Do you have any links to unbiased talking heads saying that the Flames will get the pick?

TSN and couple of guys on TSN 1260

You call it negative I call it being realistic. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst

 

[CupofOil]

TSN and couple of guys on TSN 1260

You call it negative I call it being realistic. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst

Those TSN guys said that the Flames will get the pick?
Do you have any links? Names?

 

[Jumptheshark]

Those TSN guys said that the Flames will get the pick?
Do you have any links? Names?

goto the trade center links

 

[Fourier]

Was there a "prorated" stipulation? If not, they don't get the pick. Plain and simple.

The Flames can fight it all we want but unless there's something written in the language that the Flames get the pick if Neal prorates to 21 goals and Lucic prorates to 10 or less then they don't get the pick or the condition gets moved to 2021 if the regular season isn't completed. You can't just make up something out of thin air to get your way.

This is the NHL. They always make things up out of thin air. Their suggestion is the teams "negotiate" and then they might arbitrate. If I am the Oilers my position would be no pick. The Flames will argue the "pro-rated" case. Who knows what the NHL will decide. Maybe they will turn it over to the player safety department because that operation is so well respected.

 

[CupofOil]

goto the trade center links

Which one in particular JTS? There's many trade center updates.
Come on man, you need to do the legwork if you're talking about media reports especially with a controversial statement like the Flames are getting the pick.

 

[CupofOil]

This is the NHL. They always make things up out of thin air. Their suggestion is the teams "negotiate" and then they might arbitrate. If I am the Oilers my position would be no pick. The Flames will argue the "pro-rated" case. Who knows what the NHL will decide. Maybe they will turn it over to the player safety department because that operation is so well respected.

If it goes to arbitration (which is ridiculous as is to go to an arbitrator for something like this), the Oilers have an even better case unless there's something in the language that mentions "pro rating".
Then again, you're right that the NHL tends to make things up on the fly so who knows.

FWIW, Holland said straight up a while back that there's no reason for the Oilers to lose the pick because, and I know it's crazy, Neal didn't score 21 goals. He will fight this to the bitter end I'm sure.

 

[Jumptheshark]

This is the NHL. They always make things up out of thin air. Their suggestion is the teams "negotiate" and then they might arbitrate. If I am the Oilers my position would be no pick. The Flames will argue the "pro-rated" case. Who knows what the NHL will decide. Maybe they will turn it over to the player safety department because that operation is so well respected.

When the talking heads talk about giving the oilers a later compensatory pick that concerns me. I realize that the talking heads need something to talk about but 1 of the 2 conditions have been met. Neal has 10 more goals than Looch and I think that is the one of the reasons some people are thinking the oilers may lose the 3rd

FYI--Lowetide addressed it either on his monday or tuesday show. He brought up how the Oilers got screwed out of Bengt Gustafsson, NHL ruled the oilers could not keep him as he only played in the playoffs and not the regular season

 

[Cerebral]

what has been suggested out east a few times, Oiles give the Flames out 3rd but get a compensatory pick either at the end of the 3rd or 4th round

If they go down that road, every single trade involving conditions will turn into some sort of negotiation/debate with no real reason for either side to "give in."

I really can't see any situation where the Oilers should be required to give up the pick. You just can't guarantee the conditions would be met over the remaining games, and pro-rating the numbers just isn't fair given Neal's crazy hot start. Pretty soon you'll have players who get hurt after two weeks trying to pro-rate their numbers over an 82 game season to get their bonuses. Heck, you could even see some "I was leading the NHL in scoring when I got hurt so I deserve to get bonuses for potentially winning the Art Ross Trophy."

This is a unique situation but I can't see the NHL going down that road.

 

[CupofOil]

When the talking heads talk about giving the oilers a later compensatory pick that concerns me. I realize that the talking heads need something to talk about but 1 of the 2 conditions have been met. Neal has 10 more goals than Looch and I think that is the one of the reasons some people are thinking the oilers may lose the 3rd

FYI--Lowetide addressed it either on his monday or tuesday show. He brought up how the Oilers got screwed out of Bengt Gustafsson, NHL ruled the oilers could not keep him as he only played in the playoffs and not the regular season

That doesn't matter. BOTH conditions had to be met, that's indisputable. As of now, only 1 was met.
The only arguments the Flames have is the made up prorated clause and the more legit one, that it wasn't a completed season if they cancel the regular season which would move the condition to 2021 which seems like the most likely path to me but then again, the stupid draft is happening before they make a decision on the season so that complicates things even further.

 

[backhandsauce]

Hey if Smith leaves or doesn't resign would you guys welcome Talbot back? He had a pretty good year in Calgary. Needs to learn how to fight though...

Had a 919 SP and a GAA 2.63 albeit only played 26 games.

Smith on the other hand had a 902 SP and a 2.95 GAA in 39 games.

 

[Fourier]

If it goes to arbitration (which is ridiculous as is to go to an arbitrator for something like this), the Oilers have an even better case unless there's something in the language that mentions "pro rating".
Then again, you're right that the NHL tends to make things up on the fly so who knows.

FWIW, Holland said straight up a while back that there's no reason for the Oilers to lose the pick because, and I know it's crazy, Neal didn't score 21 goals. He will fight this to the bitter end I'm sure.

In this case, "arbitration" may not mean a real arbitrator, but rather that the league may decide. That is the scenario I'd be afraid of. This is a league that cancelled compensation for signing coaches and GM's because it was a ridiculous rule but still made the Oilers pay. Of course that decision if translated would actually favour the Oilers but look how they have handled some of the cap circumvention rules. And I am still waiting to see what they will do if Weber was to hang them up.

By the way I am glad that Holland will be making the argument rather than Chia. I think Chia may have negotiated this into a 2021 first. Holland seems like the type who could have sway on the powers that be at the league level.

 

[Fourier]

That doesn't matter. BOTH conditions had to be met, that's indisputable. As of now, only 1 was met.
The only arguments the Flames have is the made up prorated clause and the more legit one, that it wasn't a completed season if they cancel the regular season which would move the condition to 2021 which seems like the most likely path to me but then again, the stupid draft is happening before they make a decision on the season so that complicates things even further.

If the condition gets moved out a year that is probably a win for the Oilers. I think the chances Neal scores 21 next year are very slim. And if he does...then the team is probably doing very well because I suspect he will be doing it from a third line slot much pf the year.

 

[bellagiobob]

That doesn't matter. BOTH conditions had to be met, that's indisputable. As of now, only 1 was met.
The only arguments the Flames have is the made up prorated clause and the more legit one, that it wasn't a completed season if they cancel the regular season which would move the condition to 2021 which seems like the most likely path to me but then again, the stupid draft is happening before they make a decision on the season so that complicates things even further.

Oilers can argue that since the New Year, Looch has outscored Neal 5-0, and realistically could be within 10 goals of him if the season played out to its conclusion.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Hey if Smith leaves or doesn't resign would you guys welcome Talbot back? He had a pretty good year in Calgary. Needs to learn how to fight though...

Had a 919 SP and a GAA 2.63 albeit only played 26 games.

Smith on the other hand had a 902 SP and a 2.95 GAA in 39 games.

Would Talbot come back? Although most of us love his wife, sounds like his wife was not that happy with how his time ended in Edmonton. I follow her on twitter and she has posted some interesting comments

what she does not miss about Edmonton?

 

[SupremeTeam16]

If I was Holland I’d look around the league for other cases where pro rating stats could cause issues. If they want to pro rate neals stats then they have to pro rate every players stats over 82. See if there are any situations where maybe bonus payouts would be hit, possibly adding more dead cap to next season when they already have a problem there. At the same time have the lawyers arguing the specific wording of the contract and that plain and simple the conditions laid out weren’t met. End of the day the only compromise I’d be willing to make if I was Holland would be the condition slides to next year. That’s fair, Flames get another kick at it over a full year.


In my opinion the Oilers need to start throwing their weight around. Nicholson and Holland are both well respected in NHL circles, they’ve got one of the stronger franchises in the league, one of the newest rinks, the new face of the league and the best of all time working for them and as an ambassador to the league. They need to start using their clout.

 

[Darkwinter]

Why in the world would you even want him back? The oiler ship has sailed on him thank Christ

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

 

[CupofOil]

In this case, "arbitration" may not mean a real arbitrator, but rather that the league may decide. That is the scenario I'd be afraid of. This is a league that cancelled compensation for signing coaches and GM's because it was a ridiculous rule but still made the Oilers pay. Of course that decision if translated would actually favour the Oilers but look how they have handled some of the cap circumvention rules. And I am still waiting to see what they will do if Weber was to hang them up.

By the way I am glad that Holland will be making the argument rather than Chia. I think Chia may have negotiated this into a 2021 first. Holland seems like the type who could have sway on the powers that be at the league level.

Unfortunately that may be the case.
I just don't see anything the league can do to award the pick to the Flames right now. I can't imagine that the league will come to Holland (one of the most well respected GMs in the league) and say we're going to award the Flames the pick based on prorated goals because we say so and no other reason. That's a good way to sour relationships and set a bad precedent going forward with future conditional picks if you start making up clauses out of thin air.

This is why I think the league will ultimately push it to 2021 because there's just way too many complications with deciding it now. Holding the draft AFTER the season would alleviate a lot of these concerns, as well as many others with other conditional picks, but they're too stubborn to move the draft until after the season or after a cancellation is announced for the sake of getting slightly higher ratings during a dead sports period. If they think they are getting an NFL draft level ratings boon, they're in for a rude awakening.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

No way Calgary gets the pick this year. Neal could have gotten injured. Edmonton could have played him on the 4th line. He could have just plain sucked the rest of the way. There were no clauses against this, just like there was no pandemic clause.

If the league wants to throw those crybabies a comp 3rd round pick, fine. But ours is safe. Worst case scenerio for us, the condition gets moved to next season where I will gladly give a 3rd for neal to still be a 21+ goal player.

 

[Del Preston]

The Flames are going to bitch and moan until the league caves. That's how it works with them.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

 

[Jumptheshark]

todays amusement

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

todays amusement

Shes always funny.