Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread: Hallsy Take 2?

[McDNicks17]

The people who ***** about RNH are the same one's who cry about how we traded Hall, Eberle, Schultz, and Dubnyk. He's a high end 2C, no matter how you want to spin it.

High-end #2Cs aren't complete non-factors when they aren't playing with someone better than them.

 

[Fourier]

How many second line players are putting up 70-80 points without playing with other solid players though? This was a knock on both Drai and Nuge whenever they centered the Oilers second line and it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If there are 2nd line centers out there putting up 70 to 80 points consistently, I'll gladly eat some crow. I don't understand what people really expect out of a second line guy like Nuge who just hit 69 points. They can keep complaining that he's a weak first overall but that's completely irrelevant to the fact that he is exactly what 31 other teams in the league would want from their second line center.

And no, Evgeni one of the three best players of the modern era Malkin is not a fair comparable.

I think there is always a problem of people over estimating how many points players get in a typical year. I always use a three year window to see what one might expect out of top end guys. If you eliminate guys like Kessel who are definitely not centers then 37 centers averaged 50+ points over the last three years. (Nuge was one of them being tied for 30th amongst regular centers). There were 11 centers in the NHL that averaged 70+ points over the last three years.

McDavid 324
Crosby 278
Draisaitl 252
MacKinnon 249
Malkin 242
Tavares 238
Backstrom 231
Sequin 230
Scheifele 226
Barkov 226
Kuznetzov 214

 

[Soundwave]

Pace, pace, pace. You people need to quit saying the word pace like it means something. It doesn't. Trying to use a guys pace as some sort of stat, or factual argument is like saying there are no variables in sports.

It means a lot for this team that plays so flat so often and sits around waiting for McDavid/Draisaitl to get the game going all the time.

It's a huge problem actually. RNH is the poster child of sitting around and waiting for others to do something rather than ever taking matters into his own hands.

RNH never had Hall's back when Hall really needed someone else to step up their game and help, and he's doesn't have McDavid/Draisaitl's back when they really need him either.

 

[GOilers88]

It means a lot for this team that plays so flat so often and sits around waiting for McDavid/Draisaitl to get the game going all the time.

It's a huge problem actually. RNH is the poster child of sitting around and waiting for others to do something rather than ever taking matters into his own hands.

RNH never had Hall's back when Hall really needed someone else to step up their game and help, and he's doesn't have McDavid/Draisaitl's back when they really need him either.

Nothing you just said has anything to do with trying to use pace as an argument. Which is good, because it's a really weak, lazy argument.

"Guys on a 30 point pace over 12 games, so we know nothing will change over the last 70 games!"

 

[Soundwave]

Nothing you just said has anything to do with trying to use pace as an argument. Which is good, because it's a really weak, lazy argument.

"Pace" is going out there and dictating the tone of a game. Something RNH has never been able to do outside of his little rookie season stretch.

He's basically a some what better defensive version of Mike Comrie basically.

He is never going to elevate even into a Jason Spezza tier of player unless some other way better player is dragging him there.

 

[GOilers88]

"Pace" is going out there and dictating the tone of a game. Something RNH has never been able to do outside of his little rookie season stretch.

He's basically a some what better defensive version of Mike Comrie basically.

He's a great second line center who plays solid two way hockey and would be welcomed with open arms on any other franchise in hockey. But here at HF Oil we love to shit on our only good players until they're run out of town then we cry about wanting them back!

I honestly don't know what more anyone wants out of a 2nd line center. If you honestly believe RNH is one of the Oilers problems, you should just stop watching hockey. I hear knitting is fun.

 

[Soundwave]

He's a great second line center who plays solid two way hockey and would be welcomed with open arms on any other franchise in hockey. But here at HF Oil we love to **** on our only good players until they're run out of town then we cry about wanting them back!

I honestly don't know what more anyone wants out of a 2nd line center.

To not disapear every time the team has a decent shot at a playoff berth would be a start.

16-17 same story ... team is playing well ... except Nuge decides he wants to shit the bed for the whole year.

 

[GOilers88]

To not disapear every time the team has a decent shot at a playoff berth would be a start.

16-17 same story ... team is playing well ... except Nuge decides he wants to **** the bed for the whole year.

He has 7 in 12 to start the year. You're just bitching to hear yourself bitch.

 

[GOilers88]

I think there is always a problem of people over estimating how many points players get in a typical year. I always use a three year window to see what one might expect out of top end guys. If you eliminate guys like Kessel who are definitely not centers then 37 centers averaged 50+ points over the last three years. (Nuge was one of them being tied for 30th amongst regular centers). There were 11 centers in the NHL that averaged 70+ points over the last three years.

McDavid 324
Crosby 278
Draisaitl 252
MacKinnon 249
Malkin 242
Tavares 238
Backstrom 231
Sequin 230
Scheifele 226
Barkov 226
Kuznetzov 214

So what you're telling me is RNH has been a solid 2nd line center for the Oilers?

Thanks for confirming.

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

Neal is on a 20+ goal pace even at ES and playing elite on the PP. Neal has several game winning goals and set up McDavid for the game tying goal vs. Washington that let them get 2 points that game instead of 0.

He's doing his job.

It's 93 that's not getting anything done.

Yes, RNH needs help ... he needs like Taylor Hall to come here and carry him again.

This guy should be ashamed of himself if he thinks he should be sniffing anywhere close to Leon Draisiatl money on his next contract.

So Neal succeeding on one play with mcdavid proves he’s contributing enough on his own line to avoid criticism and it’s all on RNH that the second line is having issues? Did you see Neal’s three ES goals this year? One a weak bad angle goal assisted by Mcdavid, and the other a bad pass from the other team thanks to nuge and jurcos pressure that resulted in neal getting the puck, and the last one was nuge winning the puck in the corner getting it to the point, and Neal capitalizing on a rebound.

I’m really trying not to devalue Neal’s contributions here, but the love for Neal when his contributions aren’t exactly carrying a line either, when he makes even more than RNH with lucics retention considered is absurd.

Both are valuable, but aren’t getting enough done to be able to carry a boat anchor on the other wing.

We also have no idea what nuge is going to get on his next contract, so making up a number in your head and becoming angry about it and blaming nuge is exactly the kind of irrational bull crap that leads to players getting bashed for no reason. This is no better than Raab defending his hatred of nurse because he heard from a friend that he wants lots of money.

 

[belair]

Manning for Boedker stands out as a deal that could happen. Obviously some dollars moved around to balance the salaries, but Boedker makes sense.

Currently sitting out in Ottawa who are focusing on their younger Fs. Tippett knows him well.

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

"Pace" is going out there and dictating the tone of a game. Something RNH has never been able to do outside of his little rookie season stretch.

He's basically a some what better defensive version of Mike Comrie basically.

He is never going to elevate even into a Jason Spezza tier of player unless some other way better player is dragging him there.

Even Jason spezza tier? The Jason spezza who by Nuges age was scoring 70, 80, and 90+ points is what you’re upset about nuge not becoming at a minimum?

This isn’t on the player, this is on you seemingly thinking a second line Center needs to be putting up first line C numbers, and making third line C money.

 

[Soundwave]

So Neal succeeding on one play with mcdavid proves he’s contributing enough on his own line to avoid criticism and it’s all on RNH that the second line is having issues? Did you see Neal’s three ES goals this year? One a weak bad angle goal assisted by Mcdavid, and the other a bad pass from the other team thanks to nuge and jurcos pressure that resulted in neal getting the puck, and the last one was nuge winning the puck in the corner getting it to the point, and Neal capitalizing on a rebound.

I’m really trying not to devalue Neal’s contributions here, but the love for Neal when his contributions aren’t exactly carrying a line either, when he makes even more than RNH with lucics retention considered is absurd.

Both are valuable, but aren’t getting enough done to be able to carry a boat anchor on the other wing.

We also have no idea what nuge is going to get on his next contract, so making up a number in your head and becoming angry about it and blaming nuge is exactly the kind of irrational bull crap that leads to players getting bashed for no reason. This is no better than Raab defending his hatred of nurse because he heard from a friend that he wants lots of money.

All goals count the same.

RNH is not scoring enough. Score a damn goal, I don't care if it's from the corner.

 

[Fourier]

So what you're telling me is RNH has been a solid 2nd line center for the Oilers?

Thanks for confirming.

I am a huge fan. I will say that at ES he needs to produce more. But right now his line is also keeping the puck out of the net.

The team's on ice GF rate when he is on the ice 5 vs 5 is 2.27/60 while against is 1.51/60. Neal is 1.87-1.87 so the line is holding its own. If that changes then maybe it is time to panic.

 

[Soundwave]

Even Jason spezza tier? The Jason spezza who by Nuges age was scoring 70, 80, and 90+ points is what you’re upset about nuge not becoming at a minimum?

This isn’t on the player, this is on you seemingly thinking a second line Center needs to be putting up first line C numbers, and making third line C money.

Given our salary structure RNH needs to score more at 6 million than he does on his own.

He needs to be the line driver on his line. Not "I need you to get me a better player so I can hit 50 points".

Dude is really a 40 point player without being able to mooch off McDavid and Hall lets be honest.

He is not someone you can just plug onto a random 2nd line and guarantee to give you 20 G/50 points, to get there quite often he needs to play with the team's top players.

 

[belair]

High-end #2Cs aren't complete non-factors when they aren't playing with someone better than them.

High end 2Cs aren't non-factors when their task is shutting down lines with multiple players who are better than them.

 

[Cloned]

RNH is a slightly better version of prime Derrick Brassard.

That is not worth 8M. It’s not even worth 7M tbh.

If he brought even one area of skill that was great to elite in, like face offs or speed, he’d be more useful. Problem is he’s like a nine of all spades. Not even a jack, a nine.

 

[Fourier]

Given our salary structure RNH needs to score more at 6 million than he does on his own.

He needs to be the line driver on his line. Not "I need you to get me a better player so I can hit 50 points".

Dude is really a 40 point player without being able to mooch off McDavid and Hall lets be honest.

He is not someone you can just plug onto a random 2nd line and guarantee to give you 20 G/50 points, to get there quite often he needs to play with the team's top players.

His own individual point scoring rates at ES were higher without either Hall or McDavid than they were with. So that argument does not really hold water.

 

[Soundwave]

RNH is a slightly better version of prime Derrick Brassard.

That is not worth 8M. It’s not even worth 7M tbh.

Yeah I'd say he's in that range, he's a younger Brassard tier player.

 

[Cloned]

Yeah I'd say he's in that range, he's a younger Brassard tier player.

If he brought even one area of skill that he was great to elite in, like face offs or speed, he’d be more useful. Problem is he’s like a nine of all spades. Not even a jack, a nine.

And your apple juice comment about him was so damn accurate lol.

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

Given our salary structure RNH needs to score more at 6 million than he does on his own.

He needs to be the line driver on his line. Not "I need you to get me a better player so I can hit 50 points".

Dude is really a 40 point player without being able to mooch off McDavid and Hall lets be honest.

He is not someone you can just plug onto a random 2nd line and guarantee to give you 20 G/50 points, to get there quite often he needs to play with the team's top players.

So because we overpaid some bad players and have 2 incredibly valuable guys in Drai and mcdavid, nuge needs to be outproducing his contract to be worth holding onto?

So we should replace him with a real 50 point center making 6m or less who can contribute with a boat anchor on one side and kills penalties. Any ideas?

6m for a second line 40-50 point defensively responsible Center is market value at minimum. You can ignore any points he “stole” from hall and mcdavid all you want, It doesn’t take them away.

“All goals count the same” as you said, but RNH points only matter when he’s playing with bad players? Lol

 

[Joey Moss]

High-end #2Cs aren't complete non-factors when they aren't playing with someone better than them.

Well it’s a good thing that’s not what RNH is.

 

[Soundwave]

So because we overpaid some bad players and have 2 incredibly valuable guys in Drai and mcdavid, nuge needs to be outproducing his contract to be worth holding onto?

So we should replace him with a real 50 point center making 6m or less who can contribute with a boat anchor on one side and kills penalties. Any ideas?

6m for a second line 40-50 point defensively responsible Center is market value at minimum. You can ignore any points he “stole” from hall and mcdavid all you want, It doesn’t take them away.

“All goals count the same” as you said, but RNH points only matter when he’s playing with bad players? Lol

So because we overpaid some bad players and have 2 incredibly valuable guys in Drai and mcdavid, nuge needs to be outproducing his contract to be worth holding onto?

So we should replace him with a real 50 point center making 6m or less who can contribute with a boat anchor on one side and kills penalties. Any ideas?

6m for a second line 40-50 point defensively responsible Center is market value at minimum. You can ignore any points he “stole” from hall and mcdavid all you want, It doesn’t take them away.

“All goals count the same” as you said, but RNH points only matter when he’s playing with bad players? Lol

It would be nice to be able to say

"Connor and Leon don't have it tonight, don't worry RNH will step it up"

When as an Oiler fan have you ever been able to make the above statement with any kind of confidence?

Any time this team really needs this guy to step up his game he not only can't do that, he is a 50-50 shot to actually go in the opposite direction and disappear like a mouse.

Happens all the time here. Happened in 16-17 repeated, happened right when the team was in a playoff spot improbably under Ralph Krueger in the lock out year (scores 0 points in the next 5 games, all loses).

He pulls this vanishing act all the time. I'm not saying trade him, but lets also be f***ing honest, any time this team really needs this guy, more often that not he runs off to hide. You cannot rely on him at all.

 

[LTIR]

High-end #2Cs aren't complete non-factors when they aren't playing with someone better than them.

So by your definition Draisaitl isn't a high end #2 center nor winger.

 

[LTIR]

It would be nice to be able to say

"Connor and Leon don't have it tonight, don't worry RNH will step it up"

When as an Oiler fan have you ever been able to make the above statement with any kind of confidence?

Any time this team really needs this guy to step up his game he not only can't do that, he is a 50-50 shot to actually go in the opposite direction and disappear like a mouse.

Happens all the time here. Happened in 16-17 repeated, happened right when the team was in a playoff spot improbably under Ralph Krueger in the lock out year (scores 0 points in the next 5 games, all loses).

He pulls this vanishing act all the time. I'm not saying trade him, but lets also be ****ing honest, any time this team really needs this guy, more often that not he runs off to hide.

Would also be nice to say, RNH is in a slump but no worries we have Draisaitl who can carry the 2nd line.