Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread: Hallsy Take 2?

[Soundwave]

Would also be nice to say, RNH is in a slump but no worries we have Draisaitl who can carry the 2nd line.

RNH is like that friend you have who's nice and all, but they will always bail out on you when you really need them.

Things are going well for the team in the first time in a while, and of course it's RNH who is massively underperforming of the top 6 forwards that you're counting.

Because of course it is. Because that's one thing RNH reliably does.

Goaltending better? Yup.

PK better? Oh yeah.

Klef, Bear, and Nurse stepping up big on the back end? Yup.

Leon taking yet another step in his development? Yup.

Neal coming in and scoring like gangbusters? Yup.

RNH picking this time to go into a goal slump? Oh but of course. The Nuge special.

 

[LTIR]

RNH is like that friend you have who's nice and all, but they will always bail out on you when you really need them.

Things are going well for the team in the first time in a while, and of course it's RNH who is massively underperforming of the top 6 forwards that you're counting.

Because of course it is. Because that's one thing RNH reliably does.

There is nothing better available in the market and we got nothing coming up.
This is what we got.

Nuge is holding his own at ES and doing good at special teams. Sure we need more but unless we put him with McD instead of Chiasson he isn't going to light things up

 

[Cloned]

RNH is like that friend you have who's nice and all, but they will always bail out on you when you really need them.

Things are going well for the team in the first time in a while, and of course it's RNH who is massively underperforming of the top 6 forwards that you're counting.

Because of course it is. Because that's one thing RNH reliably does.

The thing that annoys me about his game is he just so weak and slow sometimes. Like if you’re going to be a soft skill guy, work on your skating and shooting. If you’re going to be a jack of all trades, work on your strength and face off ability. He has just let his entire game stagnate to the point of complacency.

At least Comrie was pretty damn good offensively during a deader puck era.

 

[GOilers88]

It would be nice to be able to say

"Connor and Leon don't have it tonight, don't worry RNH will step it up"

When as an Oiler fan have you ever been able to make the above statement with any kind of confidence?

Any time this team really needs this guy to step up his game he not only can't do that, he is a 50-50 shot to actually go in the opposite direction and disappear like a mouse.

Happens all the time here. Happened in 16-17 repeated, happened right when the team was in a playoff spot improbably under Ralph Krueger in the lock out year (scores 0 points in the next 5 games, all loses).

He pulls this vanishing act all the time. I'm not saying trade him, but lets also be ****ing honest, any time this team really needs this guy, more often that not he runs off to hide. You cannot rely on him at all.

Personally I've never thought it was ever up to one guy to win a game for his team.

Maybe that's just me. Maybe that's why you're so down on him. Years as an Oilers fan has only shown you a handful of truly talented hockey players who are always expected to do all the lifting so you think that's how it should be.

 

[Soundwave]

Personally I've never thought it was ever up to one guy to win a game for his team.

Maybe that's just me.

It would be nice for once when other players are stepping up -- as Koskinen, Smith, Bear, Nurse, Klefbom, Neal have to help the team get wins that RNH wasn't in the

"I'm choosing now to crap my pants" part of the roster.

That would be nice if he could find a way to get himself into the positive category group when the team is really trying to make a push to something meaningful. Same story in 16-17 ... dude was a no show.

 

[LTIR]

The thing that annoys me about his game is he just so weak and slow sometimes. Like if you’re going to be a soft skill guy, work on your skating and shooting. If you’re going to be a jack of all trades, work on your strength and face off ability. He has just his entire game stagnate to the point of complacency.

At least Comrie was pretty damn good offensively during a deader puck era.

And you don't think RNH has worked on his shot or faceoffs or defensive play?
From what he was as a rookie to now there is a huge difference. The guy is over 50% on the dot and has one of the best wristers on the team

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

It would be nice to be able to say

"Connor and Leon don't have it tonight, don't worry RNH will step it up"

When as an Oiler fan have you ever been able to make the above statement with any kind of confidence?

Any time this team really needs this guy to step up his game he not only can't do that, he is a 50-50 shot to actually go in the opposite direction and disappear like a mouse.

Happens all the time here. Happened in 16-17 repeated, happened right when the team was in a playoff spot improbably under Ralph Krueger in the lock out year (scores 0 points in the next 5 games, all loses).

He pulls this vanishing act all the time. I'm not saying trade him, but lets also be ****ing honest, any time this team really needs this guy, more often that not he runs off to hide. You cannot rely on him at all.

Or, instead of thinking one guy should be carrying every line, we can instead say "Drai and Mcdavid are off tonight, hopefully the second line can pick it up."

RNH is not, and shouldn't have to be a mini Mcdavid on the second line carrying people to production to be a valuable player. The team is an absolute mess in so many ways, that blaming any one player, especially one actually living up to his contract is a witchhunt at this point. RNH can be better, but he's currently producing at a 48 point pace while being incredibly snakebitten (shooting 7.2% less than his career average). If you think we're going to find anyone who contributes anything close to what RNH does at anywhere near the same price, you're living in the NHL of 5+ years ago.

 

[GOilers88]

This board confounds me. This team is off to the best start it's had in YEARS, and people are complaining about any and everything and saying "Just wait, you'll see".

Maybe if it was a typical we're out of the playoffs already scenario I could understand it, but I just don't get it.

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

And you don't think RNH has worked on his shot or faceoffs or defensive play?
From what he was as a rookie to now there is a huge difference. The guy is over 50% on the dot and has one of the best wristers on the team

He's also consistently praised by coaches for his coachability and ability to adapt to new systems. He's also a mainstay on the PK and hasn't once complained when his linemates consist of nothing even close to real NHL talent.

The pitchforks are all aimed at RNH when the real issue is this team is more topheavy than johnny bravo.

 

[Soundwave]

Or, instead of thinking one guy should be carrying every line, we can instead say "Drai and Mcdavid are off tonight, hopefully the second line can pick it up."

RNH is not, and shouldn't have to be a mini Mcdavid on the second line carrying people to production to be a valuable player. The team is an absolute mess in so many ways, that blaming any one player, especially one actually living up to his contract is a witchhunt at this point. RNH can be better, but he's currently producing at a 48 point pace while being incredibly snakebitten (shooting 7.2% less than his career average). If you think we're going to find anyone who contributes anything close to what RNH does at anywhere near the same price, you're living in the NHL of 5+ years ago.

I'm not saying trade him, just saying a big part of the reason we're in this mess is RNH conveniently disappears almost every time the team really needs him.

Oilers playing well, several playing stepping up? Yup.

RNH needing his diaper changed because he pooped himself? Also yup.

Like clockwork.

McDavid, Draisaitl, Neal, Bear, Klefbom, Nurse, Koskinen, Smith, heck even Russell (when on his proper side) came to play this year.

RNH still trying to wake up.

 

[MessierII]

And you don't think RNH has worked on his shot or faceoffs or defensive play?
From what he was as a rookie to now there is a huge difference. The guy is over 50% on the dot and has one of the best wristers on the team

Offensively he’s not even close to where he was as a rookie. He’s improved in other areas no doubt but his creativity and play making are shells of their former selves.

 

[GOilers88]

Offensively he’s not even close to where he was as a rookie. He’s improved in other areas no doubt but his creativity and play making are shells of their former selves.

When you develop in an organization devoid of any talent beyond one or two guys,or hard working teammates it's no wonder he turned into a more defensive minded, careful player. Someone has to be the responsible one.

8 coaches in 9 years probably doesn't help either.

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

I'm not saying trade him, just saying a big part of the reason we're in this mess is RNH conveniently disappears almost every time the team really needs him.

Oilers playing well, several playing stepping up? Yup.

RNH needing his diaper changed because he pooped himself? Also yup.

Like clockwork.

McDavid, Draisaitl, Neal, Bear, Klefbom, Nurse, Koskinen, Smith, heck even Russell (when on his proper side) came to play this year.

RNH still trying to wake up.

again, he's on pace for his career average right now, while being absolutely snakebitten and dragging around whatever crap is tossed on his wing opposite of Neal.

If you're waiting for him to "wake up" and turn into more than what he's always been, that's on you. No matter how badly you want it, a 26 year old 45-50 point complimentary player doesn't magically become a consistent 60+ point player who can drive a line.

 

[Cloned]

Offensively he’s not even close to where he was as a rookie. He’s improved in other areas no doubt but his creativity and play making are shells of their former selves.

Not to mention his offensive game has deteriorated to the point where his primary move a lot of times is to dump and chase. Which is fine if you’re a grinder in the bottom 6. Not when you’re a 6M player expected to produce offensively.

 

[Soundwave]

When you develop in an organization devoid of any talent beyond one or two guys,or hard working teammates it's no wonder he turned into a more defensive minded, careful player.

Or maybe working out with your brother in the summer instead of a pro level training situation and having twigs for legs at age 26 still isn't really the greatest commitment to being the best NHL level player you should be.

He has the talent to be better than he is, he just doesn't want it and hasn't put in the work.

Leon Draisaitl is basically the opposite version of RNH ... he works out like a horse in the summer and it dramatically changed his game.

There's no burning fire or passion in him to be a dominant player.

 

[GOilers88]

Or maybe working out with your brother in the summer instead of a pro level training situation and having twigs for legs at age 26 still isn't really the greatest commitment to being the best player you should be.

I'm going to believe what all of his coaches have said about his character and commitment over whatever it is you're trying to sell.

 

[Cloned]

again, he's on pace for his career average right now, while being absolutely snakebitten and dragging around whatever crap is tossed on his wing opposite of Neal.

If you're waiting for him to "wake up" and turn into more than what he's always been, that's on you. No matter how badly you want it, a 26 year old 45-50 point complimentary player doesn't magically become a consistent 60+ point player who can drive a line.

I think what we are saying is that this type of player isn’t good enough for 6-8M a year on this team. Either he gets better, doesn’t ask for a raise, or we have to go cheaper. Because honestly you can get comparable ES offense from a 4M player and then spend the other 3M on a player specifically suited for the PP or in a defensive role.

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

Offensively he’s not even close to where he was as a rookie. He’s improved in other areas no doubt but his creativity and play making are shells of their former selves.

Agreed, because it's been pounded into his head by the 100 coaches he's had over his NHL career that he needs to play a defense first game, so naturally his creativity will suffer. RNH was always the stabilizing defensive force on a line with defensive no shows like Hall and Ebs. Blaming him for not playing the same risky style that got him all those points as a rookie is like blaming him for listening to coaches.

 

[MessierII]

Not to mention his offensive game has deteriorated to the point where his primary move a lot of times is to dump and chase. Which is fine if you’re a grinder in the bottom 6. Not when you’re a 6M player expected to produce offensively.

It drives me nuts. He used to challenge d men one on one and make plays. Now we just chips it into the corner on 90% of zone entries. No wonder no one can find any chemistry with him.

 

[Soundwave]

I'm going to believe what all of his coaches have said about his character and commitment over whatever it is you're trying to sell.

He's a nice person and I'm sure he works hard in practise.

He just doesn't have the fire or passion and the drive to want to be a great player. And you can't really teach that.

He's content to do just what needs to be done, he doesn't want to push himself past that or go through the pain process of that.

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

I think what we are saying is that this type of player isn’t good enough for 6-8M a year on this team. Either he gets better, doesn’t ask for a raise, or we have to go cheaper. Because honestly you can get comparable ES offense from a 4M player and then spend the other 3M on a player specifically suited for the PP or in a defensive role.

If this team can realistically get someone to play the role RNH plays at the level he does for 4m, then I am all in for trading RNH and bringing on this new player so we can shore up the team elsewhere. The issue is that those players either don't exist.

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

He's a nice person and I'm sure he works hard in practise.

He just doesn't have the fire or passion and the drive to want to be a great player. And you can't really teach that.

But apparently you as a fan can infer it based on him being a a solid 2nd line centerman who coaches gush over.
This is some body language level bull.

 

[Soundwave]

But apparently you as a fan can infer it based on him being a a solid 2nd line centerman who coaches gush over.
This is some body language level bull.

It's not on body language. He has talent, when a player like him stagnates and hits a roof in their ability, it's generally that they really don't want to push themself to the next level.

And quite often because it's painful. Have you seen Draisaitl's work outs? The fact that he basically entirely changed everything about his training after 15-16? Not every player is willing to do that.

You have to be willing to put your ego aside and want greatness so bad that you are willing to do whatever it takes. Draisaitl did it, Ethan Bear did it last summer and it's not an accident that is shows.

 

[MessierII]

Agreed, because it's been pounded into his head by the 100 coaches he's had over his NHL career that he needs to play a defense first game, so naturally his creativity will suffer. RNH was always the stabilizing defensive force on a line with defensive no shows like Hall and Ebs. Blaming him for not playing the same risky style that got him all those points as a rookie is like blaming him for listening to coaches.

I mean it’s possible to develop in both ways. A bunch of other guys from his draft year did it. It’s just so disappointing. We really picked awful years to be bad.

 

[Cloned]

If this team can realistically get someone to play the role RNH plays at the level he does for 4m, then I am all in for trading RNH and bringing on this new player so we can shore up the team elsewhere. The issue is that those players either don't exist.

How many ES points does RNH have this year? 2! He’s on pace for 15 ES points lol. Let’s say it’s just a SSS and say he bumps up his production and finishes with 30 ES points (this is generous too).

You’re telling me you can’t get a 30 point ES player for 4M?