Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread: Hallsy Take 2?

[Soundwave]

I'm at the point now, i don't care about playoffs this year. i want to see real change... permanent change and growth. Chia messed things up because he felt the heat and did some foolish things as a result.
I'll be happy now if i see growth in the consistency and effort and on ice intelligence and resilience.

For too long now we have mini spurts of good play followed by tremendous sagging when any hint of adversity is faced. It's really time for the culture and resiliency to grow and change. Build that foundation. Be patient with the prospects and make some good shrewd trades if available. Don't do anything rash and stupid. Don't be afraid that you're "wasting" Connor's good years. Do what's right for the franchise.

It's up to the players in the meantime to stick with Tippett and Holland's program and not be selfish. It may take a few years to turn around. But heck it might take one year or less if buy in and development is great. The players' mindset and culture have been so poisoned by what has occured in the last decade that their go to mindset is one of sagging and feeling sorry for themselves and giving up on each other and the coach. You can feel it creeping back in a bit now in the last 4-5 games. It's up to leadership and culture to stop the negativity and continue to work, be resilient and play for each other. Quit being a baby and a pouter and feeling sorry for yourself. Battle no matter what.

Unacceptable to flush a 8-3-1 season down the toilet under the guise of Tambellini like "patience".

The goaltending is solid. The PK is solid. The D is decent. Neal is playing great. McDavid/Draisaitl are all world.

Pull your head out of your ass Oilers and make a reasonable trade or two to get some forward depth.

The only "culture" you're establishing by not giving these players any help is a loser culture.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Unfortunately we can't afford him to have that lackadasical disposition, it's part of the problem.

You're passing on responsibility now to the bottom 6 because RNH isn't doing his job and the bottom 6 guys then start to feel pressure and gripping their sticks and now you got a roster wide issue with the bottom 9 as a whole.

Reactionary doesn't mean lackadasical. Lackadasical implies that he doesn't care, not that he is methodical.

I'm passing off the problem to the bottom six because they're already like, -10 or something ridiculous so far this year. At least Nuge, with Neal and a plug, are batting 500 right now in terms of goals for/against.

 

[McOilers97]

yoy can make excuses for Tambolland if you want. If you like how this teams depth looks then you can do that to. But some of us do not just take the party line... sons of us want to see them make the playoffs

Holland inherited a team that has a bunch of bad and/or large contracts and therefore, little room to pay extra for some more proven bottom 6ers. What he did this summer (filling the bottom of the roster with cheap players on 1 year deals) is, IMO, the only smart thing he could have done. There was no sexy option available to make the kind of upgrades that you seem to be clamoring for, and he has no incentive to rush this thing and create an even bigger mess than he was handed. It will get better in summer 2020 and summer 2021, I am confident of that.

 

[Soundwave]

Reactionary doesn't mean lackadasical. Lackadasical implies that he doesn't care, not that he is methodical.

I'm passing off the problem to the bottom six because they're already like, -10 or something ridiculous so far this year. At least Nuge, with Neal and a plug, are batting 500 right now in terms of goals for/against.

The 3rd line often gets the checking duties against the other team's top line though, so having them outscored is not that surprising. You want them to score more goals for though of course.

But asking bottom 6ers to score goals that RNH should be scoring is also part of the problem here -- you're putting to much pressure on your bottom 6 now, if they had that ability they wouldn't be in the bottom 6 to begin with.

 

[guymez]

I'm at the point now, i don't care about playoffs this year. i want to see real change... permanent change and growth. Chia messed things up because he felt the heat and did some foolish things as a result.
I'll be happy now if i see growth in the consistency and effort and on ice intelligence and resilience.

For too long now we have mini spurts of good play followed by tremendous sagging when any hint of adversity is faced. It's really time for the culture and resiliency to grow and change. Build that foundation. Be patient with the prospects and make some good shrewd trades if available. Don't do anything rash and stupid. Don't be afraid that you're "wasting" Connor's good years. Do what's right for the franchise.

It's up to the players in the meantime to stick with Tippett and Holland's program and not be selfish. It may take a few years to turn around. But heck it might take one year or less if buy in and development is great. The players' mindset and culture have been so poisoned by what has occured in the last decade that their go to mindset is one of sagging and feeling sorry for themselves and giving up on each other and the coach. You can feel it creeping back in a bit now in the last 4-5 games. It's up to leadership and culture to stop the negativity and continue to work, be resilient and play for each other. Quit being a baby and a pouter and feeling sorry for yourself. Battle no matter what.

I hear what you are saying here.
Consistency is a major problem for this team and its isnt going to go away in the first 12 games of the season.
I think Tippett and Holland need to get a sense of which players cant or wont play the way the team needs them to play. Thats a process that takes time especially because they are looking at this with new eyes so to speak.
Holland did the right thing by singing as many players to 1 year deals as he could...makes those players easy subtractions if they dont fit. The team he inherited is a different story though.

At this point in time I am not even sure who those problem players are (I have some suspicions) but I suspect under Tippett and Holland we will know fairly soon. Might take until the new year though.
In any event I have to think that they are all over sifting through the problem players but it isnt going to happen as soon as some posters want it to.

 

[MaxR11]

Unacceptable to flush a 8-3-1 season down the toilet under the guise of Tambellini like "patience".

The goaltending is solid. The PK is solid. The D is decent. Neal is playing great. McDavid/Draisaitl are all world.

Pull your head out of your ass Oilers and make a reasonable trade or two to get some forward depth.

Do you really think it's that easy to make a good trade? All the teams know the Oil are desperate to turn it around so they're just waiting to screw them over. Fortunately this summer we were able to screw the Flames over though.

That being said, it wouldnt surprise me if Holland has something in the back burner. I'm guessing he wants to watch what he has here a bit longer before making decisions. he might very well trade guys like Nuge or Khaira etc if they just dont do it for him. it wouldnt surprise me at all. im betting tips and holland are having meetings talking about who they want on this team going forward. evaluating attitudes, buy in, effort, hockey iq, and overall culture etc.

 

[MaxR11]

I hear what you are saying here.
Consistency is a major problem for this team and its isnt going to go away in the first 12 games of the season.
I think Tippett and Holland need to get a sense of which players cant or wont play the way the team needs them to play. Thats a process that takes time especially because they are looking at this with new eyes so to speak.
Holland did the right thing by singing as many players to 1 year deals as he could...makes those players easy subtractions if they dont fit. The team he inherited is a different story though.

At this point in time I am not even sure who those problem players are (I have some suspicions) but I suspect under Tippett and Holland we will know fairly soon. Might take until the new year though.
In any event I have to think that they are all over sifting through the problem players but it isnt going to happen as soon as some posters want it to.

lol, pretty much exactly what i said in my last post to another poster.

 

[Soundwave]

Do you really think it's that easy to make a good trade? All the teams know the Oil are desperate to turn it around so they're just waiting to screw them over. Fortunately this summer we were able to screw the Flames over though.

That being said, it wouldnt surprise me if Holland has something in the back burner. I'm guessing he wants to watch what he has here a bit longer before making decisions. he might very well trade guys like Nuge or Khaira etc if they just dont do it for him. it wouldnt surprise me at all. im betting tips and holland are having meetings talking about who they want on this team going forward. evaluating attitudes, buy in, effort, hockey iq, and overall culture etc.

Do we really need another 1st round pick? How many are they planning to hoarde. This team should have been a playoff contender the last two years and instead got two top 10 picks they shouldn't have.

Trade the damn pick for once if need be.

Another season of packing it up come February or March is unacceptable.

They have shown good signs this year, they have a good start, the division looks like crap, and their goaltending looks good.

Make a goddamn trade. You have Puljujarvi who could net you one decent rental forward and/or a 1st round and you have Adam Larsson who is also expendable.

 

[bucks_oil]

Unacceptable to flush a 8-3-1 season down the toilet under the guise of Tambellini like "patience".

The goaltending is solid. The PK is solid. The D is decent. Neal is playing great. McDavid/Draisaitl are all world.

Pull your head out of your ass Oilers and make a reasonable trade or two to get some forward depth.

The only "culture" you're establishing by not giving these players any help is a loser culture.

Honest question, but what do you want to trade for the forward depth that we need.

Does a Yamamoto + a Sheahan automatically get you a 35-40 point 3rd line C? Which team that you can see would be motivated to do such a trade this early in the season. Ottawa maybe?

Do you trade your trending up Bear because you think our younger prospects will peak higher?

Do you trade Larsson because our D-depth is so plentiful that you are willing to bet on not needing him around and healthy?

I don't see much obvious and easy... struggle to see the motivations in other teams giving us what we need this early in the season when they are all struggling to make the playoffs themselves.

In one year's time we have more cap space... In one year's time we may actually have enough known depth on D to trade some of it. I don't feel so strongly that we do have current NHL depth there yet. And no team is accepting prospects for NHL-talent at this early stage of the season.

We are going to need to let this ride until ~ the end of 2019 before we see teams start to reassess their strategy with respect to RFA, UFA and pure hockey trades. ... my point is 1) none of that is on the table now and 2) unless and until we have an excess of NHL depth at any one position, we can't trade from that to buttress a weakness (in a true hockey trade, the other guy wants something current that we can afford to part with... what IS that? )

 

[guymez]

Do you really think it's that easy to make a good trade? All the teams know the Oil are desperate to turn it around so they're just waiting to screw them over. Fortunately this summer we were able to screw the Flames over though.

That being said, it wouldnt surprise me if Holland has something in the back burner. I'm guessing he wants to watch what he has here a bit longer before making decisions. he might very well trade guys like Nuge or Khaira etc if they just dont do it for him. it wouldnt surprise me at all. im betting tips and holland are having meetings talking about who they want on this team going forward. evaluating attitudes, buy in, effort, hockey iq, and overall culture etc.

I dont think that some people realize just how massive the Neal/Lucic deal was for this team.
If Holland does nothing else until the new year that deal in and of itself should have afforded him a ton of currency with Oilers fans.

 

[Soundwave]

Honest question, but what do you want to trade for the forward depth that we need.

Does a Yamamoto + a Sheahan automatically get you a 35-40 point 3rd line C? Which team that you can see would be motivated to do such a trade this early in the season. Ottawa maybe?

Do you trade your trending up Bear because you think our younger prospects will peak higher?

Do you trade Larsson because our D-depth is so plentiful that you are willing to bet on not needing him around and healthy?

I don't see much obvious and easy... struggle to see the motivations in other teams giving us what we need this early in the season when they are all struggling to make the playoffs themselves.

In one year's time we have more cap space... In one year's time we may actually have enough known depth on D to trade some of it. I don't feel so strongly that we do have current NHL depth there yet. And no team is accepting prospects for NHL-talent at this early stage of the season.

We are going to need to let this ride until ~ the end of 2019 before we see teams start to reassess their strategy with respect to RFA, UFA and pure hockey trades. ... my point is 1) none of that is on the table now and 2) unless and until we have an excess of NHL depth at any one position, we can't trade from that to buttress a weakness (in a true hockey trade, the other guy wants something current that we can afford to part with... what IS that? )

I am open to trade any and all of

Adam Larsson
Jesse Puljujarvi (obviously)
EDM 1st 2020 (conditional on Oilers making playoffs) or EDM 2nd 2020

That should net you back at minimum 2 useful forwards.

 

[barry halls]

I'm worried that Holland's 'long game' may end up taking too long. With McDavid apparently giving the organization just 2 more years to right the ship there is more riding on this season than some people seem to want to admit. Another lost season could be catastrophic.
With the start they've had there is no reason this team shouldn't be in the playoff mix, but they probably need some outside help because it wouldn't shock me at all to see this roster as it stands lose 6 or 7 in a row before Christmas.

 

[ManofSteel55]

The 3rd line often gets the checking duties against the other team's top line though, so having them outscored is not that surprising. You want them to score more goals for though of course.

But asking bottom 6ers to score goals that RNH should be scoring is also part of the problem here -- you're putting to much pressure on your bottom 6 now, if they had that ability they wouldn't be in the bottom 6 to begin with.

I don't think it is putting too much pressure on the bottom six to ask them to pitch in with a goal every now and then. The bottom six has one goal. One. That's atrocious regardless of how you look at it. The second line needs to pick it up too, I've never said otherwise, but there is a difference between saying Nuge's line needs to score more and suggesting he is an awful player.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I'm worried that Holland's 'long game' may end up taking too long. With McDavid apparently giving the organization just 2 more years to right the ship there is more riding on this season than some people seem to want to admit. Another lost season could be catastrophic.
With the start they've had there is no reason this team shouldn't be in the playoff mix, but they probably need some outside help because it wouldn't shock me at all to see this roster as it stands lose 6 or 7 in a row before Christmas.

Where did you find this?

 

[ZenOil]

Nuge is weak. He's not assertive for a reason. Needs some muscles with speed on his line too compensate for his obvious softness.

 

[guymez]

I'm worried that Holland's 'long game' may end up taking too long. With McDavid apparently giving the organization just 2 more years to right the ship there is more riding on this season than some people seem to want to admit. Another lost season could be catastrophic.
With the start they've had there is no reason this team shouldn't be in the playoff mix, but they probably need some outside help because it wouldn't shock me at all to see this roster as it stands lose 6 or 7 in a row before Christmas.

There is no way to do this quickly if it is going to be done properly.
There is no doubt in my mind that McDavid is smart enough to know that.

 

[MaxR11]

I dont think that some people realize just how massive the Neal/Lucic deal was for this team.
If Holland does nothing else until the new year that deal in and of itself should have afforded him a ton of currency with Oilers fans.

ya, i've watched parts of a few Flames games and boy Looch definitely looks like the hurtin unit every time he's out on the ice. He's a liability and disrupting what his line is trying to do. Surprised to see him on the pp as well. His time in the NHL might be done. feel bad for him. the game has passed him by a while ago and his spine condition likely doesnt help.

 

[Soundwave]

I don't think it is putting too much pressure on the bottom six to ask them to pitch in with a goal every now and then. The bottom six has one goal. One. That's atrocious regardless of how you look at it. The second line needs to pick it up too, I've never said otherwise, but there is a difference between saying Nuge's line needs to score more and suggesting he is an awful player.

The thing is I think the Oilers are setting up a psychological fail for their roster this way.

The 3rd/4th lines can chip in with garbage goals now and again when they feel insulated that the 1st/2nd lines are scoring.

The problem with the Oilers is the 2nd line doesn't do their job (outside of James Neal who's been great).

So now the 3rd/4th liners are going to the rink knowing they gotta "step up" ... and the problem with that mentality is that 3rd/4th liners are just as apt to freeze up and choke when put under defacto pressure to score.

If they could score at the snap of a finger well they wouldn't be career bottom sixers to begin with.

This isn't a new thing either, last year Ryan Strome couldn't buy a goal here either.

 

[MaxR11]

I am open to trade any and all of

Adam Larsson
Jesse Puljujarvi (obviously)
EDM 1st 2020 (conditional on Oilers making playoffs) or EDM 2nd 2020

That should net you back at minimum 2 useful forwards.

really? two useful fwds? like who? give examples.

 

[Soundwave]

really? two useful fwds? like who? give examples.

Rental category right now - Requires a pick or Puljujarvi straight across

Kris Kreider
Tyler Toffoli
JG Pageau
Eric Staal

Longer term possibilities - Requires Larsson+ going the other way

Taylor Hall
Andreas Athansiou
Brandon Saad
Kasperi Kapanen

There will be more available as more teams drop firmly out of the playoff race.

 

[Del Preston]

Where did you find this?

It's from Friedman doing his "I think" speculation on a Toronto radio station before the season.

 

[bucks_oil]

I am open to trade any and all of

Adam Larsson
Jesse Puljujarvi (obviously)
EDM 1st 2020 (conditional on Oilers making playoffs) or EDM 2nd 2020

That should net you back at minimum 2 useful forwards.

I'm good with the latter two... though I'd argue Pulju isn't going to net much right now.

I'd trade Jones and Laggesson too, though I doubt we'd find much NHL talent in exchange until closer to the deadline, as teams are out of it.

I think a team with historically thin D depth cannot trade a 26 year old Larsson who was a 26min/night guy the last time we made the playoffs and is (would be) playing with decent goaltending and a new defensive structure for the first time since 2016. I do not believe he is part of the problem and I don't trust our depth at that position yet.... maybe I would in another 20 games.

 

[Soundwave]

I'm good with the latter two... though I'd argue Pulju isn't going to net much right now.

I'd trade Jones and Laggesson too, though I doubt we'd find much NHL talent in exchange until closer to the deadline, as teams are out of it.

I think a team with historically thin D depth cannot trade a 26 year old Larsson who was a 26min/night guy the last time we made the playoffs and is (would be) playing with decent goaltending and a new defensive structure for the first time since 2016. I do not believe he is part of the problem and I don't trust our depth at that position yet.... maybe I would in another 20 games.

You could probably get Toffoli or JG Pageau for Puljujarvi right now, the problem with it is the optics of "asset management" because you're giving him away for a rental probably.

Larsson really isn't vital to this team, we can't let this type of forward depth go on for 2 more years or something and Larsson is long term here the bottom pairing RD.

Get something for him now rather than nothing much in a year.

You need to actually make the playoffs first and it's clear as day the horrendous offensive depth here is the main reason they are having problems making the playoffs.

 

[Soundwave]

Athansiou
M. Green @ 50% retained

for

Larsson
Puljujarvi


Chiasson
EDM 2nd
for
JG Pageau

Drai McDavid Kassian
Athansiou RNH Neal
Nygard Pageau Jurco
Khaira Sheahan Archibald
Yamamoto

Klefbom Green
Nurse Bear
Russell Persson
Benning

 

[barry halls]

It's from Friedman doing his "I think" speculation on a Toronto radio station before the season.

I like to think that it was simply baseless speculation, but who knows. Surely Friedman must have some connections to do the work that he does.