Prospect Info: Round 1, Pick 23: Tyson Foerster, RW, Barrie (OHL)

[deadhead]

My point is the players taken after him haven't been so good it matters, most would struggle to break into our lineup this year.
So it's not like the Flyers left much better picks on the table.

In a bad draft at the top, Hextall killed the 2nd to 5th rounds.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

My point is the players taken after him haven't been so good it matters, most would struggle to break into our lineup this year.
So it's not like the Flyers left much better picks on the table.

In a bad draft at the top, Hextall killed the 2nd to 5th rounds.

I'd sure take Max Jones. Or Howden or Steel.

As the 22nd pick, Rubtsov may never be an NHL regular, and if he is it looks like 4th line.

As the 2nd overall pick, Patrick is an abject failure, especially when compared to the three players who went in order after him.

Laberge at 36? Was in the ECHL this year.

Frost and Ratcliffe? Who knows? Jury is still quite out on both.

My point is not that Hextall was a bad drafter, but that he has some pretty big misses that get glossed over by those acting like he was a draft genius.

 

[Adtar02]

Wow

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Howden, Jones and Steel have been meh,

You're being overly generous. Brett Howden so far has been one of the very worst players in the NHL and this is from someone who repeatedly said I thought he would be Hextall's pick. He couldn't find replacement level if he stood on Hagg's shoulders.

 

[The Madrigal]

I'd sure take Max Jones. Or Howden or Steel.

As the 22nd pick, Rubtsov may never be an NHL regular, and if he is it looks like 4th line.

As the 2nd overall pick, Patrick is an abject failure, especially when compared to the three players who went in order after him.

Laberge at 36? Was in the ECHL this year.

Frost and Ratcliffe? Who knows? Jury is still quite out on both.

My point is not that Hextall was a bad drafter, but that he has some pretty big misses that get glossed over by those acting like he was a draft genius.

Careful GB, you've just activated the Hextall truthers. Nobody should have any disagreement with what you said because it's all fact. The Flyers were a very good drafting team under Hextall, but there were also some huge misses that people choose to ignore. From what I recall there wasn't even a question on Patrick at number 2 overall but this team would be ridiculously better had they taken Makar or Heiskanen. Laberge over Debrincat. Rubtsov was an absolute waste of a first round pick, giving up a 3rd and 5th to move up in the second round for Ratcliffe isn't looking very good to this point either, etc.

The other thing I will say is that all of that talk about the amazing ''swing for the fences high upside'' late round picks that were made under Hextall is so overrated. All the credit in the world for hitting big on Lindblom in the fifth round. He is currently the only one though. Guys taken in the 4th round or later under Hextall excluding Lindblom....

Radel Fazleyev
Jesper Petterssen
Samuel Dove-McFalls
Mikhal Vorobyev
David Kase
Cooper Marody
Ivan Fedotov
Connor Bunnaman
Linus Hogberg
Tanner Laczynski
Anthony Salinitri
Matthew Strome
Noah Cates
Olle Lycksell
Wyatt Kalynuk
John St. Ivany
Wyatte Wylie
Samuel Ersson
Gavin Hain
Markus Westfalt

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You're being overly generous. Brett Howden so far has been one of the very worst players in the NHL and this is from someone who repeatedly said I thought he would be Hextall's pick. He couldn't find replacement level if he stood on Hagg's shoulders.

He's got 136 NHL games and 42 NHL points to his credit. For the Stanley Cup champs. What does Rubtsov have at 22?

 

[royals119]

WTF is "labeled for child nutrition" supposed to mean?

Talk about empty language.

I think that means the percentages on the nutrition label are based on a child's typical diet and needs instead of the adult numbers.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Rubtsov and Laberge came out of a really bad draft.
#11 Logan Brown, #12 Michael McLeod, #13 Jake Bean, #17 Dante Fabbro, #18 Logan Stanley (who we traded down from), #19 Keiffer Bellows, #21 Julien Gauither, #23 Henrik Borgstrom, #25 Riley Tufte, #28 Lucas Johansen, #29 Trent Federic

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I think that means the percentages on the nutrition label are based on a child's typical diet and needs instead of the adult numbers.

That reeks of a marketing scam to me.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

He's got 136 NHL games and 42 NHL points to his credit. For the Stanley Cup champs. What does Rubtsov have at 22?

Brett Howden never suited up for Tampa. He was traded to the Rangers while he was still in the AHL. You really should do your homework before you try to play the gotcha game. I usually just let it go, but Jesus this is embarrassing.

 

[deadhead]

And he totally misses the point, all the choices in that first round after the top 10 were pretty bad, I mean a total miss might be better than a replacement level player you have to pay at a 3rd line rate just to see if he turns it around.

And the 2nd and 3rd rounds weren't much better, just a bad draft.

Of course, a few players (Allison?) may emerge the next few years, but sometimes the cupboard is bare.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Brett Howden never suited up for Tampa. He was traded to the Rangers while he was still in the AHL. You really should do your homework before you try to play the gotcha game. I usually just let it go, but Jesus this is embarrassing.

I can laugh at myself, and I was still picturing him with Tampa. But it doesn't change the crux of my point. He's played 136 NHL games with 42 points. Rubtsov? 4 games 0 points, and a 4th line projection if he even makes it.

 

[Here4ThaLids]

is "Forzy" really any better that "Forey"

REalistically, theyll just call him tree, or Maple, something dumb and unimaginative, to that effect.

We already have a "Trees" on the alumni roll so that's out. If he were shorter, maybe "Stumps" or "Stumpsy", in the hockey guy way, but alas.

 

[Adtar02]

Do you search his name.

 

[deadhead]

Brett Howden in 136 games has a E +/- of -22.7.
That's really bad.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Do you search his name.

No, I just read very quickly.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Brett Howden in 136 games has a E +/- of -22.7.
That's really bad.

Would you trade Rubtsov for Howden?

 

[deadhead]

Would you trade Rubtsov for Howden?

No. Howden is what he is, 2 years in the NHL and he's shown no improvement, I'd put him behind Bunnaman, who at least shows signs of becoming a top defensive center. So why trade for a marginal 4th line guy who isn't a good 4th line fit?

Rubtsov has been injury prone, we'll have a better idea of what he might become after a full KHL season.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

No. Howden is what he is, 2 years in the NHL and he's shown no improvement, I'd put him behind Bunnaman, who at least shows signs of becoming a top defensive center. So why trade for a marginal 4th line guy who isn't a good 4th line fit?

You wouldn't trade Rubtsov for Howden?

Would you trade Rubtsov for Max Jones or Sam Steel?

I think you're nuts if you wouldn't immediately trade him for any of those three players.

And you rank Howden behind Bunnaman?

You wouldn't trade Bunnaman for Howden?

Man. No ill will, but I completely disagree.

 

[Here4ThaLids]

In this thread: ignored trolls who are trying to set the high bar for one GM at 'perfect draft, no mistakes'.

We should judge actions by the decision-making process and not the results (that are usually only apparent years later). The Rubtsov pick is quite defensible; anyone who doesn't like it should state who they would have picked, by name.

---

To Rebel's point: the scouts do largely remain in place across GM eras, so there is some degree of institutional continuity, even when we all seem to agree the team has been without an identity for some time now. But I disagree that we should expect similar results from Fletcher/Flahr as we saw from Hextall/Pryor; Holmgren and Clarke, with the same scouts, drafted Goulbourne and Klotz in the 3rd Rd, and that nonsense stopped immediately with the first Hextall draft. How would you explain that?

 

[TCTC]

Rubtsov wasn't a good pick, but that really wasn't a strong draft year. Sometimes players like him is all you get in the late 1st round.

 

[deadhead]

Guys who score just enough to seduce HCs into playing them, but are net liabilities because of their defense, are how you stagnate, they eat up more cap room than they should and block other young players. And most never become good enough scorers to compensate for their deficiencies.

Flyers were smarter about that, Laughton's first season at 21 would have kept him in the NHL for a lot of franchises, 21 ES points in 71 games in a 4th line role, instead they sent him down to the AHL. He returned at 23 and scored at the same rate, then improved over the next two seasons - but his fundamental defensive flaws haven't been fixed b/c they seem to be innate (lack of instincts). However, by seasoning him they limited the damage. He's a top forechecker and PK forward, just can't play center in the top 9.

Bunnaman is willing to forecheck and play defense, his offense needs a lot of work, but at 4C he can be a net positive while he learns the ropes. Same with Rubtsov if he can stay healthy.

 

[Magua]

You're being overly generous. Brett Howden so far has been one of the very worst players in the NHL and this is from someone who repeatedly said I thought he would be Hextall's pick. He couldn't find replacement level if he stood on Hagg's shoulders.

It's the classic Hagg argument about opportunity cost, value cost, etc. Would you rather have a player who is a bust and never adds a single scrap of value to your on ice product (ex. Laberge)? Or would you rather have a player who gets that magical "hit" label but negatively costs you?

I suppose the best case is the latter, for as little as possible, wherein you trade that player at a value high and recoup something. Because the former -- the bust -- is just an organizational sunk cost. But you cannot count on decision makers to make proactive decisions with the pyrite hits. We might surpass 300 games with one such player. So, give me the Rutbtsov; give me the Laberge. At least my mind and these forums would be at peace!

 

[Nabrules]

Can we please go back to, yenno Tyson Foerster?

 

[Here4ThaLids]

When confronted with future manic episodes about Flyers' first rounders I will have to remember that "10 goals in 89 NHL games at age 22" is actually quite valuable and not something that would be crushed and dragged through the mud ad nauseam.