Prospect Info: Round 1, Pick 23: Tyson Foerster, RW, Barrie (OHL)

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Can we please go back to, yenno Tyson Foerster?

You mean re-do the draft? I agree. Great post. Fire Fletch.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

When confronted with future manic episodes about Flyers' first rounders I will have to remember that "10 goals in 89 NHL games at age 22" is actually quite valuable and not something that would be crushed and dragged through the mud ad nauseam.

There is a certain bratty 12-year-old who is constantly tracking these things, don't worry

 

[StoneColdAnimal]

Again, no he wasn't. We just had Flyer luck.

I watched full games. I watched highlight tapes. I watched everything i could watch on Patrick since it was pretty clear that he was going to be the guy. And I never understood the love he got. I didn't see any one standout skill. I thought he was generally good across the board, but not great at any one thing, and certainly not good enough to completely pretend like his injury history wasn't a thing. I'm not even saying I was against taking him, I was just shocked at the time how much people were enamored with him. I figured that since I wasn't a scout, I didn't know what to look for or not look for, and that I would be proven wrong. However, I will say he is exactly the player I thought he would be, even without the injuries. Maybe he grows into something more, but I just don't see him ever being a top line center. At this point, if he becomes a legit second line center I would be happy. And with the second pick in the draft, I would think you would expect to get more.

 

[Striiker]

In this thread: ignored trolls who are trying to set the high bar for one GM at 'perfect draft, no mistakes'.

We should judge actions by the decision-making process and not the results (that are usually only apparent years later). The Rubtsov pick is quite defensible; anyone who doesn't like it should state who they would have picked, by name.

---

To Rebel's point: the scouts do largely remain in place across GM eras, so there is some degree of institutional continuity, even when we all seem to agree the team has been without an identity for some time now. But I disagree that we should expect similar results from Fletcher/Flahr as we saw from Hextall/Pryor; Holmgren and Clarke, with the same scouts, drafted Goulbourne and Klotz in the 3rd Rd, and that nonsense stopped immediately with the first Hextall draft. How would you explain that?

YES. ALWAYS. This is the only logical way to evaluate the quality of a scout or GMs work.

A good process with a bad result was still smart.
A bad process with a good result was still a mistake.

They can't see into the future so we can only judge them based on what was known at the time.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I watched full games. I watched highlight tapes. I watched everything i could watch on Patrick since it was pretty clear that he was going to be the guy. And I never understood the love he got. I didn't see any one standout skill. I thought he was generally good across the board, but not great at any one thing, and certainly not good enough to completely pretend like his injury history wasn't a thing. I'm not even saying I was against taking him, I was just shocked at the time how much people were enamored with him. I figured that since I wasn't a scout, I didn't know what to look for or not look for, and that I would be proven wrong. However, I will say he is exactly the player I thought he would be, even without the injuries. Maybe he grows into something more, but I just don't see him ever being a top line center. At this point, if he becomes a legit second line center I would be happy. And with the second pick in the draft, I would think you would expect to get more.

I can completely understand this. I was Team Nico from the beginning and didn't want Nolan - more because of the injury concerns than anything, but also the lack of dynamism (or however you want to characterize it). Hexy was just in a tough spot - he would have been crucified if he passed on Patrick there, for one thing, and the weight of those 2+ years where Patrick was the de facto 2017 1OA heir apparent made it difficult to trust a hunch to go off-script.

It's just not something to hold against Hexy - there are plenty of other things you can use to have a pro-inflammatory wank over. It was just typical Flyers shit luck.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Notice the sudden silence. Of course anyone in their right minds would trade Rubtsov for Jones, Howden, or Steel. Let alone trade Bunnaman for Howden. It was a bad draft, yes. But Rubtsov was still a miss at 22.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Notice the sudden silence. Of course anyone in their right minds would trade Rubtsov for Jones, Howden, or Steel. Let alone trade Bunnaman for Howden. It was a bad draft, yes. But Rubtsov was still a miss at 22.

I'm silent because I missed the last few pages, but upon considering it more closely, I conclude that "Rubstov" would be an excellent name for a cheese infused with balsamic vinegar. German should retire and get into that line of work.

 

[StoneColdAnimal]

I can completely understand this. I was Team Nico from the beginning and didn't want Nolan - more because of the injury concerns than anything, but also the lack of dynamism (or however you want to characterize it). Hexy was just in a tough spot - he would have been crucified if he passed on Patrick there, for one thing, and the weight of those 2+ years where Patrick was the de facto 2017 1OA heir apparent made it difficult to trust a hunch to go off-script.

It's just not something to hold against Hexy - there are plenty of other things you can use to have a pro-inflammatory wank over. It was just typical Flyers shit luck.

I remember it like it was yesterday. After the pick, and as I'm trying to talk myself into loving the player, like I do for all the first round picks my teams make, I remember my friend saying this will be an absolutely terrible pick...as he put it, "injured players get injured" and if he can't stay healthy against kids, how the hell is he going to stay healthy playing against men. We made a bet that he would never play a full season of hockey in his career... Sometimes, you just have to have the balls to make an unpopular decision. If Hexy made the pick because he truly thought he was the second best player in the draft, than I can't knock him too much for that. If he made the call because he didn't have the backbone to make an unpopular decision, I'm happy he is out of here.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Let’s get back on track. Foerster has a cannon, & his skating can be fixed.

 

[Chinatown88]

 

[Rebels57]

I watched full games. I watched highlight tapes. I watched everything i could watch on Patrick since it was pretty clear that he was going to be the guy. And I never understood the love he got. I didn't see any one standout skill. I thought he was generally good across the board, but not great at any one thing, and certainly not good enough to completely pretend like his injury history wasn't a thing. I'm not even saying I was against taking him, I was just shocked at the time how much people were enamored with him. I figured that since I wasn't a scout, I didn't know what to look for or not look for, and that I would be proven wrong. However, I will say he is exactly the player I thought he would be, even without the injuries. Maybe he grows into something more, but I just don't see him ever being a top line center. At this point, if he becomes a legit second line center I would be happy. And with the second pick in the draft, I would think you would expect to get more.

Due to the injuries, people tend to forget how underwelming his performance was relative to other 2nd overall picks. I'm still hopeful that he is just going to be a late-bloomer, but he still needs to overcome the noggin problems first.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Let's get back off track. What kind of cheese would be best served with a Russian vodka? I'm not a huge fan of cheese, so I would suggest the only thing you should serve with vodka is lime wedges. Possibly Key Lime pie..

 

[wankstifier]

Let's get back off track. What kind of cheese would be best served with a Russian vodka? I'm not a huge fan of cheese, so I would suggest the only thing you should serve with vodka is lime wedges. Possibly Key Lime pie..

Vodka is a full meal. Why do you need cheese?

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Vodka is a full meal. Why do you need cheese?

Exactly.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Let's get back off track. What kind of cheese would be best served with a Russian vodka? I'm not a huge fan of cheese, so I would suggest the only thing you should serve with vodka is lime wedges. Possibly Key Lime pie..

Rubstov balsamic-infused cheese.

 

[Tripod]

Due to the injuries, people tend to forget how underwelming his performance was relative to other 2nd overall picks. I'm still hopeful that he is just going to be a late-bloomer, but he still needs to overcome the noggin problems first.

Yeah...both years he was garbage pretty much until mid/late Jan....then from then onward, was a 50 point guy.

 

[Flyers1987]

I watched full games. I watched highlight tapes. I watched everything i could watch on Patrick since it was pretty clear that he was going to be the guy. And I never understood the love he got. I didn't see any one standout skill. I thought he was generally good across the board, but not great at any one thing, and certainly not good enough to completely pretend like his injury history wasn't a thing. I'm not even saying I was against taking him, I was just shocked at the time how much people were enamored with him. I figured that since I wasn't a scout, I didn't know what to look for or not look for, and that I would be proven wrong. However, I will say he is exactly the player I thought he would be, even without the injuries. Maybe he grows into something more, but I just don't see him ever being a top line center. At this point, if he becomes a legit second line center I would be happy. And with the second pick in the draft, I would think you would expect to get more.

And with the injury history. I'm sorry that is a big red flag. I would not have taken him just based on that.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I did a comparison of Patrick relative to other top 3 forwards in their first couple years, and his production was not far off the average mark.

It feels worse because of the slow starts and the fact that he wasn't very sheltered since we were a one-line team; expectations were higher and therefore not being sensational was more unforgivable.

But inconsistency is common for players that young.

 

[deadhead]

I did a comparison of Patrick relative to other top 3 forwards in their first couple years, and his production was not far off the average mark.

It feels worse because of the slow starts and the fact that he wasn't very sheltered since we were a one-line team; expectations were higher and therefore not being sensational was more unforgivable.

But inconsistency is common for players that young.

His rookie season, he was coming off two surgeries and never had a chance to build up core strength.
His second season was more concerning, but he did have 29 ES points in 72g, solid 3C production.
It was also a general clusterf--- for the team.

 

[Rebels57]

His rookie season, he was coming off two surgeries and never had a change to build up core strength.
His second season was more concerning, but he did have 29 ES points in 72g, solid 3C production.
It was also a general clusterf--- for the team.

Yeah I would like to see him on this deeper team sans Hakstol before throwing in the towel

 

[Adtar02]

Yeah I would like to see him on this deeper team sans Hakstol before throwing in the towel

Please.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

@Ghosts Beer You have my sincere apologies for being harsh earlier. I should have phrased it more pleasantly.

 

[flyersnorth]

There was disagreement among the Flyers' scouts, and Hextall went the wrong way.

I remember reading an article before the draft that mentioned how Patrick was close to being eligible for the prior draft, and that he would have gone somewhere in the middle of the top 10. The point being that he wasn't an elite prospect. He had a lot of questions surrounding him -- injuries and skating in particular.

You can't afford to whiff when you luck out with the #2 pick, and Hextall whiffed. I'm only holding him to a higher standard because some posters treat him like a drafting wizard. I don't think you can label him a drafting wizard and just ignore Patrick, Rubtsov, Laberge.

And I'm not at all contending that Hextall was a bad drafter or that he didn't make some good picks. But he had some bad ones that get glossed over under the idea that he was a draft guru.

Let's say Patrick's migraines never existed. Even with a healthy Patrick and having seen him in his first 2 years, he's not looking like the 2nd best player in the draft.

So, yes, hindsight will probably show us that Hextall whiffed. But I think it's a whiff that every GM would have made.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

And with the injury history. I'm sorry that is a big red flag. I would not have taken him just based on that.

easy to say that now. Every GM would of taken him then.

 

[deadhead]

Let's say Patrick's migraines never existed. Even with a healthy Patrick and having seen him in his first 2 years, he's not looking like the 2nd best player in the draft.

So, yes, hindsight will probably show us that Hextall whiffed. But I think it's a whiff that every GM would have made.

Big centers generally take longer, if Patrick is healthy, a breakout season wouldn't surprise me, he's probably 6'2 210 these days.
A healthy Patrick could give you 40+ ES points, 10 points on PP2 or 20 on PP1, and plus defensive play including PK duties.
That's an above average 2C, which was about his projection at the draft, everyone knew the draft seemed to lack any elite players.