Roster Moves: Roster Thread Talk 2021: it never ends

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Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,761
16,520
Considering Risto has been bottom pair (downright bottom of the league) quality for many years and it's not likely he has enough upside left to dramatically improve, I don't see why a second pair dman cost is a good comparison. He's not that level.
Your logic is flawed. You’re contending Risto is “bottom pair” & “downright bottom of the league” based on metrics resulting from his bearing the burden of top pair minutes for an awful team.

That is, you are assuming these metrics are unaffected by usage.

You are assuming that sheltered-minutes defensemen on good teams who put up better metrics in much easier roles would perform superior to Ristolainen if thrust into top pair minutes on Buffalo.

In reality, these players wouldn’t even get a chance for the same type of minutes because they aren’t good enough.

It’s kind of like you contending that a student who gets a B in remedial math is a better student than one who gets a D in AP math. It doesn’t account for context. Switch their classes & see what happens.
 

FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
54,690
89,932
3rd in minutes. 3rd in QoC. Worst season of his career. But go on with the narratives.

upload_2021-9-4_21-15-40.png
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
130,254
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Armored Train
Your logic is flawed. You’re contending Risto is “bottom pair” & “downright bottom of the league” based on metrics resulting from his bearing the burden of top pair minutes for an awful team.

That is, you are assuming these metrics are unaffected by usage.

You are assuming that sheltered-minutes defensemen on good teams who put up better metrics in much easier roles would perform superior to Ristolainen if thrust into top pair minutes on Buffalo.

In reality, these players wouldn’t even get a chance for the same type of minutes because they aren’t good enough.

It’s kind of like you contending that a student who gets a B in remedial math is a better student than one who gets a D in AP math. It doesn’t account for context. Switch their classes & see what happens.

You're forgetting that a major reason Buffalo is awful is because they give Ristolainen so many minutes.

Metrics measuring what happened when he's in the ice do nothing but show his impact. They demonstrate what happened, and it's bad. It's counting. Do you have a problem with counting?

How about the eye test? You can watch him and readily observe that he sucks. Observation and metrics agree.

By the way, Risto has been sheltered of late in terms of usage. It didn't help him.
 
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Bigkarl

Registered User
Dec 27, 2017
1,174
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If the Flyers had a sensible defensive system and the coach that could bring the guys to handle it well, then I’d say that Risto stood a decent chance of being re-made. I don’t see Yeo being that guy. This significant. If the Flyers don’t change the way that they play in their own end, we’ll see more of what we saw last season and Hart will get abused again.
Bringing in different players is fine since they may be upgrades. However if the system doesn’t change, it will just be more of the SOS. Every opponent in the league knows how to forecheck the Flyers into turnover oblivion and then turn them into quick shots on goal from high scoring chances.

Exactly. What did anyone see from last year’s Flyers team to make them think this is the system/coaching staff that helps Risto finally get his game together? No support from forwards, and defenseman who looked confused and constantly blowing assignments hardly seems like a fit for a notoriously low IQ dman. Especially when his biggest asset, his PP production, won’t be utilized because Ellis and Provorov will ostensibly get the majority of that time.

He’s certainly got the tools to be a top 4 dman somewhere, I have a hard time believing it will be here.
 

Starat327

Top .01% OnlyHands
May 8, 2011
38,098
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Philadelphia, Pa
Exactly. What did anyone see from last year’s Flyers team to make them think this is the system/coaching staff that helps Risto finally get his game together? No support from forwards, and defenseman who looked confused and constantly blowing assignments hardly seems like a fit for a notoriously low IQ dman. Especially when his biggest asset, his PP production, won’t be utilized because Ellis and Provorov will ostensibly get the majority of that time.

He’s certainly got the tools to be a top 4 dman somewhere, I have a hard time believing it will be here.

Risto is big, so he's automatically a good defensive defenseman. And like that's what we needed. And Fletcher doesn't make mistakes, so if you follow thr stepping stones... Risto is better than Pronger.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
50,833
22,160
Buffalo does suppress player metrics:

Montour xGF% 43.96, 44.13, then goes to Florida, 60.80 (53.34% in 6 PO games). SSS but still pretty drastic.
Miller xGF% in VGK 54.83%, 57.14%, Buffalo 48.78%, 43.57%
Bogosian shows a similar trend, though injuries makes it harder to trust
Scandella, Minn 54.31%, 48.51%, 52.18%, Buf 44.93%, 41.10%

Doesn't mean Risto is going to suddenly turn it around in Philly, does suggest that if he did so, it shouldn't be as surprising as some think.
 
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Magua

Entirely Palatable Product
Apr 25, 2016
38,595
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Huron of the Lakes
Wish we had stats that adjusted relative to a team. Maybe next decade.

The most wonderful part will be if the best play driving defenseman on the team lifts Risto’s numbers to respectability , and then we get that thrown in our faces that he’s not actually bad! See! While giving no credit to his partner.
 

Starat327

Top .01% OnlyHands
May 8, 2011
38,098
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Philadelphia, Pa
Wish we had stats that adjusted relative to a team. Maybe next decade.

The most wonderful part will be if the best play driving defenseman on the team lifts Risto’s numbers to respectability , and then we get that thrown in our faces that he’s not actually bad! See! While giving no credit to his partner.

You know this is coming, Maggie. Queue up the ignore list now and save yourself.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
50,833
22,160
Wish we had stats that adjusted relative to a team. Maybe next decade.

Problem is they're "tallest midget stats" but don't capture the team impact.
There is something rotten in the state of Denmark. Buffalo is where D-men go to die.

Which is why I'm gonna wait and see.
 

Asnito

Blood Rival to a Briere Simp
Mar 2, 2017
6,965
15,604
Well, we overpaid, but not sure we overpaid by as much as presumed.
2nd pair D-men as rentals cost a 2nd and 3rd for 0ver 30 players with no upside and significant downside.
A gamble like Subban with salary to boot (a negative given his age and health) cost (2) 2nds.

If the Flyers concluded that the draft was so bad that #13 was more like #23 in most drafts, then they overpaid, but not by a huge margin. For one thing, there are no longer conditional picks where you can give a 2nd that becomes a 1st if you resign the player. So they gave up the equivalent in their eyes of a late first rd pick rather than a second 2nd rd pick.

The 2nd paid to dump Ghost is irrelevant, b/c that was the price, they had tried to dump him for a year. As other deals showed, that was the going rate. That cap room was going to be used, whether for Risto or other players.

Now if you expect Risto to be a first pair D-man, you're likely to be disappointed.
If you hope Risto is an upgrade over Myers/Braun as the 2nd pair D-man, you have a better shot at happiness.
I'll withhold judgement for now, and see how he performs with his new team.
I'll bite.

1. The Subban comparison is disingenuous. He was traded when the cap was escalating to a bad NJ team that had oodles of cap space. He also had a much better track record.

2. You have absolutely no idea what the Flyers concluded about the draft. It was the 13th overall pick. Here are some players drafted between 13-18 from 2015 to 2019. Barzal, Connor, Chabot, McAvoy, Kunin, Chychrun, Suzuki, Farabee, Ty Smith, Knight, York and Caufield. There's some really good players available @13th overall.

3. If a 2nd round pick is the going rate to dump a contract why not wait until a few weeks into free agency to see who missed out on Hamilton and might be desperate for an offensive D man? You're allowed to go over the cap why the rush to dump him? Wouldn't a prudent GM want to maximize his return/ minimize his loss?
 

BritainStix

Registered User
Oct 20, 2016
6,725
9,798
I dont understand your irrational emotionalism. We don't need to see Ristolainen put on a Flyers jersey to know that he has sucked for 8 full years of his professional career. We also know that putting on a Flyers sweater doesn't give him magical superpowers.

As just about everyone has said - will he look better here than in Buffalo? Sure, it's possible. Maybe even likely, given he'll be aying with better players. Does playing here mean he'll suddenly morph into a very good hockey player? Very unlikely.

This is science, and I'm not sure what there really is to debate about that. His stats show he's one of the worst defenseman in the league. His stats also show he's a contributor to the team being as bad as it was when he's on the ice. That's not predictive. That's measured off of actual reaults. It's not like he's going from a bottom dweller to a perennial contender and will have an easier go at things. He's going from a bottom dweller to a below average team that is coached by a team who isn't know for his defensive structure. That's not an opinion, and it's not a negative commentary. It's just the truth.

Christ, no it's not. This isn't baseball in which every event is separate. This is hockey, where everything is a fluid mess.

This isn't a game in which you put the 18 best statistical players on the ice and watch them win the cup. Theres a reason that several teams who are regular season offensive powerhouses crumble in the playoffs. Will puting the statistically best players give you a stronger chance to make the playoffs? Absolutely. No one here argues against that, is it a guarantee of success, no.

If this was science, then we would simply be watching the games for nothing short of the freak incidents or outliers. That isn't the case.

My issue with grading Risto as a failure is that he has been playing on a losing franchise his entire professional career, in which, outside of him playing like the best defensive player in the league wasn't going to alter the result in any meaningful way. That level tends to allow errors to manifest in your game, for mistakes to be amplified, and for your care factor to dissapear.

Unless you are about to tell me that you have a season ticket to Buffalo and have seen all of his games, I'm going to make the presumption that you have no idea what he appears to be doing wrong on the ice other than 4 coloured boxes on a twitter image. Are his errors fixable, is it a collection of poor mechanics or decision making, is he trying to overcompensate for poor teammates, or a poor goaltender. Is he being coaches or instructed to perform in a way that doesn't benefit his skill set?

You keep saying that he could improve but never be great. We don't need him to be great. We need a middle of the road middle pairing defenseman, that can handle big lumps in the corners. If the guy tops out as a solid #3 or #4 then it's a successful move and he'll be paid relative to what he brings. If he holds his own and can lead the bottom pairing, then we've have overpaid to bring in a 5th defenseman with a first round pick, there are worst things that could happen, it's not great but it doesn't require months and months of shit posting.

You talk about being irrationally emotive, thats sport, in a nutshell. If you aren't emotionally invested in this then why are you here, on a dedicated team message board constantly shitting on the team, its coaches, owners or even the mascot. Are you trying to tell me that you have no emotional connection to the team whatsoever? Because I'm going to call bullshit. Casual fans don't have thousands of posts here.

This is the exact place that we should be all irrationally emotive because wether I want it to or not, the flyers performance will have a profound impact on my emotional mood through the season. Repeating the same three lines in the offseason f***ing grates people down, people come here, as with watching sport in the first place, to escape reality for a small portion of their day.

The constant negging of enthusiasm I see here is high on the scale of pathetic. I don't know if it makes people feel superior to berate people for being excited about an aspect, but it sure is sad. Like I said. I'm gonna wait for the puck to drop, and if he f***s up then I'll vent like everyone else here. But I try and contain my negativity until they actually get on the ice and prove nothing has changed. But whatever, you got me. Save your counter post of "strawman...., waahh look at him cry...., boomer dumb fan... , hypocrit..... because frankly I couldn't give a shit anymore.

/irrational emotional rant.
 

Devonator

Registered User
Jan 5, 2003
4,842
2,682
Christ, no it's not. This isn't baseball in which every event is separate. This is hockey, where everything is a fluid mess.

This isn't a game in which you put the 18 best statistical players on the ice and watch them win the cup. Theres a reason that several teams who are regular season offensive powerhouses crumble in the playoffs. Will puting the statistically best players give you a stronger chance to make the playoffs? Absolutely. No one here argues against that, is it a guarantee of success, no.

If this was science, then we would simply be watching the games for nothing short of the freak incidents or outliers. That isn't the case.

My issue with grading Risto as a failure is that he has been playing on a losing franchise his entire professional career, in which, outside of him playing like the best defensive player in the league wasn't going to alter the result in any meaningful way. That level tends to allow errors to manifest in your game, for mistakes to be amplified, and for your care factor to dissapear.

Unless you are about to tell me that you have a season ticket to Buffalo and have seen all of his games, I'm going to make the presumption that you have no idea what he appears to be doing wrong on the ice other than 4 coloured boxes on a twitter image. Are his errors fixable, is it a collection of poor mechanics or decision making, is he trying to overcompensate for poor teammates, or a poor goaltender. Is he being coaches or instructed to perform in a way that doesn't benefit his skill set?

You keep saying that he could improve but never be great. We don't need him to be great. We need a middle of the road middle pairing defenseman, that can handle big lumps in the corners. If the guy tops out as a solid #3 or #4 then it's a successful move and he'll be paid relative to what he brings. If he holds his own and can lead the bottom pairing, then we've have overpaid to bring in a 5th defenseman with a first round pick, there are worst things that could happen, it's not great but it doesn't require months and months of shit posting.

You talk about being irrationally emotive, thats sport, in a nutshell. If you aren't emotionally invested in this then why are you here, on a dedicated team message board constantly shitting on the team, its coaches, owners or even the mascot. Are you trying to tell me that you have no emotional connection to the team whatsoever? Because I'm going to call bullshit. Casual fans don't have thousands of posts here.

This is the exact place that we should be all irrationally emotive because wether I want it to or not, the flyers performance will have a profound impact on my emotional mood through the season. Repeating the same three lines in the offseason f***ing grates people down, people come here, as with watching sport in the first place, to escape reality for a small portion of their day.

The constant negging of enthusiasm I see here is high on the scale of pathetic. I don't know if it makes people feel superior to berate people for being excited about an aspect, but it sure is sad. Like I said. I'm gonna wait for the puck to drop, and if he f***s up then I'll vent like everyone else here. But I try and contain my negativity until they actually get on the ice and prove nothing has changed. But whatever, you got me. Save your counter post of "strawman...., waahh look at him cry...., boomer dumb fan... , hypocrit..... because frankly I couldn't give a shit anymore.

/irrational emotional rant.

Very well said....honestly it is hard to come and partake with my fellow Flyer fans here because they are the worse negative nancy's I know of in the Hockey world....I have to say many almost come off childish and very predictable.....you would think we do not have a roster worthy of an AHL squad let alone the NHL.....perhaps many here are very young still...or perhaps its more of a general Philly sports fan cynicism coming to the fore.....I don't know for sure but it does make this board,save for a few posters, very hard to follow.
 

Starat327

Top .01% OnlyHands
May 8, 2011
38,098
75,315
Philadelphia, Pa
Christ, no it's not. This isn't baseball in which every event is separate. This is hockey, where everything is a fluid mess.

This isn't a game in which you put the 18 best statistical players on the ice and watch them win the cup. Theres a reason that several teams who are regular season offensive powerhouses crumble in the playoffs. Will puting the statistically best players give you a stronger chance to make the playoffs? Absolutely. No one here argues against that, is it a guarantee of success, no.

If this was science, then we would simply be watching the games for nothing short of the freak incidents or outliers. That isn't the case.

My issue with grading Risto as a failure is that he has been playing on a losing franchise his entire professional career, in which, outside of him playing like the best defensive player in the league wasn't going to alter the result in any meaningful way. That level tends to allow errors to manifest in your game, for mistakes to be amplified, and for your care factor to dissapear.

Unless you are about to tell me that you have a season ticket to Buffalo and have seen all of his games, I'm going to make the presumption that you have no idea what he appears to be doing wrong on the ice other than 4 coloured boxes on a twitter image. Are his errors fixable, is it a collection of poor mechanics or decision making, is he trying to overcompensate for poor teammates, or a poor goaltender. Is he being coaches or instructed to perform in a way that doesn't benefit his skill set?

You keep saying that he could improve but never be great. We don't need him to be great. We need a middle of the road middle pairing defenseman, that can handle big lumps in the corners. If the guy tops out as a solid #3 or #4 then it's a successful move and he'll be paid relative to what he brings. If he holds his own and can lead the bottom pairing, then we've have overpaid to bring in a 5th defenseman with a first round pick, there are worst things that could happen, it's not great but it doesn't require months and months of shit posting.

You talk about being irrationally emotive, thats sport, in a nutshell. If you aren't emotionally invested in this then why are you here, on a dedicated team message board constantly shitting on the team, its coaches, owners or even the mascot. Are you trying to tell me that you have no emotional connection to the team whatsoever? Because I'm going to call bullshit. Casual fans don't have thousands of posts here.

This is the exact place that we should be all irrationally emotive because wether I want it to or not, the flyers performance will have a profound impact on my emotional mood through the season. Repeating the same three lines in the offseason f***ing grates people down, people come here, as with watching sport in the first place, to escape reality for a small portion of their day.

The constant negging of enthusiasm I see here is high on the scale of pathetic. I don't know if it makes people feel superior to berate people for being excited about an aspect, but it sure is sad. Like I said. I'm gonna wait for the puck to drop, and if he f***s up then I'll vent like everyone else here. But I try and contain my negativity until they actually get on the ice and prove nothing has changed. But whatever, you got me. Save your counter post of "strawman...., waahh look at him cry...., boomer dumb fan... , hypocrit..... because frankly I couldn't give a shit anymore.

/irrational emotional rant.

This is entirely too much to read In full. I'll speak to the bigger points:


No, I didnt mean that this was science as in you put two molecules of hydrogen together with one of oxygen and you get water. It's science in the sense that Risto has been bad for 8 years. We don't need to wait to judge him just because he's putting on a separate jersey. That's silly talk. He's demonstrated for a long period of time to be not good. We don't need more data to come to that conclusion, and it's perfectly normal to expect him to continue that way.

Fortunately, I dont have to watch his games. There's this thing called the internet where people who do can describe his faults: low hockey IQ leading to constantly making the wrong read both offensively and defensively, poor gap control, poor handling of the puck under pressure, and the list goes on.

For the price we paid, we need him to be great. Otherwise, we pissed away assets for no reason on a player who wasn't an upgrade over what we had, which leads me to my last and final point.

I'm glad you're able to contain your negativity. I'm glad you're excited about this 'aspect'. There was a time when this organization got the benefit of the doubt. But for 10 years they've demonstrated a trend of making poor decisions and making the roster worse to cater to the casual fan. Getting rid of skill players to acquire "big and heavy", is the definition if pandering to the local desire to have "Flyers hockey". This team isn't run to be a competitive team anymore. It's run to be a marketing machine(Hellloooooooo Cevin Hayes) and promote revenue growth- thats my issue.

P.s. your side rant about calling you on boomer/strawman was a nice touch of hypocrisy. I dig it.
 

tucson83

Registered User
Sep 30, 2017
2,644
1,238
Very well said....honestly it is hard to come and partake with my fellow Flyer fans here because they are the worse negative nancy's I know of in the Hockey world....I have to say many almost come off childish and very predictable.....you would think we do not have a roster worthy of an AHL squad let alone the NHL.....perhaps many here are very young still...or perhaps its more of a general Philly sports fan cynicism coming to the fore.....I don't know for sure but it does make this board,save for a few posters, very hard to follow.

yup, they just dont get the fact when you dont have a superstar on your team it's very difficult to win a cup, they just want to think that bottom barrel of players are going to turn into superstars and the odds of that arent very good, i mean when we were bad the one year to get kane and chicago took him and you knew that was rigged for chicago because philly had the best odds of getting him. garry isnt going to give us a superstar, no matter how hard we tank, he's going to give it to someone else. the best thing to do is trade for that player or get him in fa, relying on the draft is impossible because gary will rig it and the flyers will be a dumpster fire for years.

i love all the moves that chuck is doing, it's the best thing he can do right now. there's no other way.
 

flyersnorth

Registered User
Oct 7, 2019
4,667
7,138
Listening to Therien's first episode as a member of Snow The Goalie. I sure did miss his fire last year. The game day broadcast crew is vanilla af.

Couple highlights from Therien's perspective -
  • Gritty *cannot* be the face of the franchise going forward, as in, if he's the most exciting thing about the franchise, we're in trouble.
  • Any hope of success this year starts with #79 having a rebound year. He doesn't need to be great, but he does need to be solid and reliable.
DEFENSE
  • Provorov is not and never will be a #1, but he can certainly play on a top pairing. Niskanen and Provorov was a solid top pair, and he thinks Ellis can raise Provy's game in the same way.
  • Getting rid of Myers was the right move. Doesn't believe he has much more upside to his game. Hockey IQ too low. Thinks the game at a low level.
  • Ristolainen: Admire his compete level but he's never once seen him get better than the first few games he saw as a rookie in the 6 years since. He's still playing like a rookie. Could be because of the absolute disaster of the Buffalo organization. Love his compete level, love how hard he hits, but don't want to see him skate 12 feet in the wrong direction to make a hit and leave the ice open for a 2 on 1 against.
  • "What do you make about the 7 other teams interested in Risto?" He's a classic restoration/reclamation project. The only reason they got him was because they offered the highest 1st round pick. I hope he gets better, because he's got a lot of sandpaper to his game. Dahlin's been mediocre too, so it could very well be a Buffalo thing.
  • (They skipped right over Yandle lol but later mentioned how he might end up being a great acquisition for Hayes given what he's going through right now)
FORWARDS
  • Atkinson for Voracek. Atkinson is a class act, great locker room guy. But trade made no sense other than the numbers matching, as in, why did the Jackets give up Atkinson to acquire Voracek? Seems too good to be true from the Flyers perspective.
  • Thompson, it's fine. He just does his job, you know what you're gonna get. PKer, depth guy.
  • Brassard, gives the Flyers another layer of a guy who's been around, knows his role, smart player.
GOALIES
  • Jones, seems to be more about financials. Why not go for Hotlby instead? There is a lack of goaltending depth in this league. Is Jones a mentor now? Another reclamation project?
  • Elliott played way more games than he was told he was expected to play because Hart was so bad. Affected the balance and dynamic.
  • Nothing else matters unless the team's goalies get back to a reliable level.
  • Russ: Would not be surprised if, come January, Jones is the starter and Hart is the backup.
  • Hart did not earn his contract.
  • Not 100% convinced this is a playoff team.
ROOKIES

Which player is more likely to make a meaningful impact on this team this season? York or Frost?
  • ASF: York. Yandle's situation here is a bit more tenuous than some of the forwards. They see York as less than a year away from being ready. Far more important of a role than Frost.
  • Therien: Frost would have to be at least a 3rd liner. Poor fit for a 4th line. But for York and Frost, will be tough to find enough minutes for them to be successful.
Who plays more games for the Flyers this season? Allison or NAK?
  • Therien: Allison. 100%. Not even sure the team likes NAK. He's one of those guys they see a bit of potential, but feel like coaches get really annoyed with him.
  • ASF: Allison. For NAK, it would help his game if he's paired with veteran guys, not young/rookie types. Get the AHL/laziness out of his game. They want to give it one more shot with him. Allison seems like a versatile guy, can play with skill guys and even on a checking/bottom six role. That versatility will get him more games than NAK.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
130,254
170,675
Armored Train
yup, they just dont get the fact when you dont have a superstar on your team it's very difficult to win a cup, they just want to think that bottom barrel of players are going to turn into superstars and the odds of that arent very good, i mean when we were bad the one year to get kane and chicago took him and you knew that was rigged for chicago because philly had the best odds of getting him. garry isnt going to give us a superstar, no matter how hard we tank, he's going to give it to someone else. the best thing to do is trade for that player or get him in fa, relying on the draft is impossible because gary will rig it and the flyers will be a dumpster fire for years.

i love all the moves that chuck is doing, it's the best thing he can do right now. there's no other way.

You're amazing at pretending people are making arguments that they aren't. You live in a fake reality.
 

FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
54,690
89,932
yup, they just dont get the fact when you dont have a superstar on your team it's very difficult to win a cup, they just want to think that bottom barrel of players are going to turn into superstars and the odds of that arent very good, i mean when we were bad the one year to get kane and chicago took him and you knew that was rigged for chicago because philly had the best odds of getting him. garry isnt going to give us a superstar, no matter how hard we tank, he's going to give it to someone else. the best thing to do is trade for that player or get him in fa, relying on the draft is impossible because gary will rig it and the flyers will be a dumpster fire for years.

i love all the moves that chuck is doing, it's the best thing he can do right now. there's no other way.
wut?
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
130,254
170,675
Armored Train
Some really weird takes in there. Particularly the Atkinson trade making no sense.

The Atkinson trade does make sense. We do need more shooters. Now we have one. In theory his overall impact should be similar to Voracek's (unless he is declining faster than anticipated) for less.

Whether he will be used well is an unrelated matter
 

flyersnorth

Registered User
Oct 7, 2019
4,667
7,138
Some really weird takes in there. Particularly the Atkinson trade making no sense.

Yeah, he was saying it made no sense from Columbus' perspective. Atkinson was one of the rare guys who signed an extension to want to *stay* in Columbus, and Jake has been on the record of hating Columbus. Therien was pointing out that given everything the Jackets have lost over the past few years, why trade away the one guy who actually wanted to be there?
 

DancingPanther

Foundational Titan
Jun 19, 2018
33,831
72,087
Saying "this isn't baseball where every event is separate. Hockey is such a fluid game and it's impossible for any stat to capture everything" or whatever is just like saying "it's just the flu" in September 2021. That ship has long sailed
 
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