Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Chainshot]

I get it and we all wish we could just set him up in Rochester. But I don't think Mitts or Thompson are comparable.

Mitts was a skilled guy that was seemingly not putting in effort. I don't think that's the case with Savoie and they had completely different paths also.

Mitts came in with casual fans thinking that his U20 performance would be what they would get, then got some time on LW in easy situations and put up points which reinforced that. He was the poster child for a guy who's development level play did not warrant a position on the team and then he floundered. It took them almost 18 months too long to figure out they had made a mistake so he could work on his game. Savoie is having a very good WHL season, and on personal assessment I would say he's better in his D+1 season than Mitts had in his. As the original "let Mitts go back to Minnesota for another year" guy, it's justified and they did not help matters by how they handled him.

Projecting out, Savoie needs to play. He hasn't be dominant at his club level so it's not like he's not got more to learn or do there.

Thompson clearly needed time for his brain to catch up to his body. He also spent time in the A which, at the time didn't even seem impactful on his NHL ice time until he eventually figured things out. Again, totally different player because this is an unprecedented situation. There's not a comparable.

Putting people in position to succeed and continue to grow their game is very much the same situation.

Maybe the tomato reference got off track a bit lol. I just don't know what else the kid needs to do in the W and frankly, I doubt he would be happy about staying. Take that for what it's worth but it is meaningful. I knew the post wouldn't be received with cheers but it comes down to what is best for him and his development.

What is he going to get better doing in the W? He's a responsible, rounded out junior player already and again, I doubt he'd be excited to go back again. As a depth player, he's going to have some lumps and I wouldn't expect much in the NHL next year but there's a lot to learn from that. I just think the situation is more complicated than stay or go and the solution should be more complex as well.

Again, he's having a nice year. He's not dominant at that level. He hasn't gone out and been dominant against his peer group. This idea that he's crushing the WHL is not the reality of what he's doing.

Feels like the same conversations about plenty of players who were better served by going back. If he makes it out of camp, great. That's going to indicate a level of work he puts in between now and then. But the idea that the NHL is best for him is not the way.

 

[Chainshot]

Why on earth would Jost take a nickel below his QO? He'd get to be a UFA at age 25 if he doesn't get a QO from us. It's not like we are a year away from a championship and are too close to the cap to re-up him.

Now, might he test the market at circle back? Sure. But I have to think he would see what the market has for him before taking an offer below his QO.

Because players take less than their QO for term regularly.

 

[Matt Ress]

Mitts came in with casual fans thinking that his U20 performance would be what they would get, then got some time on LW in easy situations and put up points which reinforced that. He was the poster child for a guy who's development level play did not warrant a position on the team and then he floundered. It took them almost 18 months too long to figure out they had made a mistake so he could work on his game. Savoie is having a very good WHL season, and on personal assessment I would say he's better in his D+1 season than Mitts had in his. As the original "let Mitts go back to Minnesota for another year" guy, it's justified and they did not help matters by how they handled him.

Projecting out, Savoie needs to play. He hasn't be dominant at his club level so it's not like he's not got more to learn or do there.



Putting people in position to succeed and continue to grow their game is very much the same situation.



Again, he's having a nice year. He's not dominant at that level. He hasn't gone out and been dominant against his peer group. This idea that he's crushing the WHL is not the reality of what he's doing.

Feels like the same conversations about plenty of players who were better served by going back. If he makes it out of camp, great. That's going to indicate a level of work he puts in between now and then. But the idea that the NHL is best for him is not the way.

I understand and I generally feel the same way about prospects. Throwing him into the top 12 next year would be detrimental imo. But again, it's not the same conversation, it's not the same player and it's not the same situation. Not every player or path is the same so rubber-stamping is lazy wasteful especially in extenuating circumstances.

I don't know what will happen and it doesn't have to be what I proposed but I hope Granato is being more diligent about possible solutions. Neither black nor white seem ideal to me so hopefully he is able find a better plan.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Can Savoie be loaned overseas?

Edit: I think I’ve asked this before but have had to push out the information to make room for critical Cozens advanced stat contract analysis.

 

[Chainshot]

I understand and I generally feel the same way about prospects. Throwing him into the top 12 next year would be detrimental imo. But again, it's not the same conversation, it's not the same player and it's not the same situation. Not every player or path is the same so rubber-stamping is lazy wasteful especially in extenuating circumstances.

I don't know what will happen and it doesn't have to be what I proposed but I hope Granato is being more diligent about possible solutions. Neither black nor white seem ideal to me so hopefully he is able find a better plan.

The instances where someone forces their way onto a team quickly indicate they have done the work and have impressed. If that's what happens, great. He's got skills that will be very useful to this team. And at the same time, let's not exaggerate where he's at. There is always something to learn and another season in the 'dub would not necessarily be wasteful nor "letting him rot" as you put it earlier.

And the instances when someone is ready at 19 to be "that guy" on an NHL team aren't as rare as they once where - no doubt thanks to how these kids dedicate themselves to physical training earlier and earlier - so it wouldn't be unheard of. Yet there is very little evidence that anyone ever waited too long at a development level and hurt their game. There are plenty however of people who plugged in early for a variety of reasons and didn't grow into their best projection of the player they were thought they could be.

 

[Chainshot]

Can Savoie be loaned overseas?

Why? What is wrong with attempting to be dominant at the WHL level as a 19-year old?

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Why? What is wrong with attempting to be dominant at the WHL level as a 19-year old?

Nothing, but I wouldn’t rule out the increased comp of a Euro league being better.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Chychrun gives me Bogosian injury vibes. Just a Buddy Nix “gut.”

 

[Chainshot]

Nothing, but I wouldn’t rule out the increased comp of a Euro league being better.

WHL offers a similar to NHL-style year in terms of games and scheduling while operating in cultural circumstances that don't require adjustment. There is no reason to add that stress into his development path.

 

[Chainshot]

Chychrun gives me Bogosian injury vibes. Just a Buddy Nix “gut.”

Marek/Friedman talked about he may have twinged something on the OT backcheck that he didn't get to in his last game played. They implied he could play through it but wanted to shut it down to make sure it doesn't leave him out by making it worse.

 

[Jim Bob]

Adams should trade for Zadorov and Weegar.

 

[Chainshot]

Adams should trade for Zadorov and Weegar.

It's always interesting to see that there is no single way to get to something like that. Makar's pair it's due to transition and offensive play. Aho-Mayfield? System helps, same with the Carolina pairs. Bruins? The machine knows how to play and their forwards don't cheat the game in their own zone. Where it gets interesting is seeing how Jersey has done what they do. I would like Buffalo to level up in that regard since the Sabres have the offensive chops on the rush but what they are lacking is settled offense and most of the defense.

 

[TehDoak]

Because players take less than their QO for term regularly.

When they were just claimed off waivers with no real ties to the org?

If they want to give him a QO, I don't have a problem with it considering the cap situation next year.

However, if they want to improve as a team, they probably need to find an upgrade on him for a bottom 6C. They most certainly should not give him term.

He's OK defensively, but doesn't contribute enough enough for anything other than a 4th line role. He's one of worst faceoff guy in the league on a team that is already terrible at faceoffs. He's good on the PK, but not good enough to significantly move the needle.

 

[Chainshot]

When they were just claimed off waivers with no real ties to the org?

If they want to give him a QO, I don't have a problem with it considering the cap situation next year.

However, if they want to improve as a team, they probably need to find an upgrade on him for a bottom 6C. They most certainly should not give him term.

He's OK defensively, but doesn't contribute enough enough for anything other than a 4th line role. He's one of worst faceoff guy in the league on a team that is already terrible at faceoffs. He's good on the PK, but not good enough to significantly move the needle.

I get that in your mind there is no way anyone ever would want to do anything in and around Buffalo, but the guy himself did just say this:

How Kevyn Adams, Don Granato are handling the human element of the trade deadline

Kevyn Adams and Don Granato's relationships with each other and the players are keeping everyone on the same page.

theathletic.com

“Just in general, the Sabres organization does a really good job,” Jost said. “It starts with Kevyn and then the coaching staff in general, Donny is just such an outstanding coach. He does such a great job of trying to help you with the mental side of things, too. That’s 90 percent of the game these days and Donny gets that. He’s really good with the younger players, including myself. He just helps you play your game, play with confidence, play without fear. That’s huge. I think that helps and then just playing your game and you’re not worried about outside noise. They really stress that. That’s part of the organization and the culture here. It’s why I have so much faith in this organization and know it’s in such good hands and I want to be a part of this organization because they get it for sure.”

Pump the brakes on loathing on the franchise a moment.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I get that in your mind there is no way anyone ever would want to do anything in and around Buffalo, but the guy himself did just say this:

How Kevyn Adams, Don Granato are handling the human element of the trade deadline

Kevyn Adams and Don Granato's relationships with each other and the players are keeping everyone on the same page.

theathletic.com

Pump the brakes on loathing on the franchise a moment.

Yea but you gotta read between the lines. Jost is actually saying “f*** this city and f*** this team. I’m out of here ASAP.”

 

[Matt Ress]

The instances where someone forces their way onto a team quickly indicate they have done the work and have impressed. If that's what happens, great. He's got skills that will be very useful to this team. And at the same time, let's not exaggerate where he's at. There is always something to learn and another season in the 'dub would not necessarily be wasteful nor "letting him rot" as you put it earlier.

And the instances when someone is ready at 19 to be "that guy" on an NHL team aren't as rare as they once where - no doubt thanks to how these kids dedicate themselves to physical training earlier and earlier - so it wouldn't be unheard of. Yet there is very little evidence that anyone ever waited too long at a development level and hurt their game. There are plenty however of people who plugged in early for a variety of reasons and didn't grow into their best projection of the player they were thought they could be.

I mean everybody is whatever. My point from the start is that it's a unique situation and broad stroking it would be lazy. Again, I hope Adams (i mistakenly said Granato earlier) is being more diligent than that. He showed well in this past camp and I would assume he'll be at least as impressive in this upcoming camp. You were predetermining the outcome and I don't the club has the same mindset.

I agree with you now that if he makes the club out of camp, great. If he was say the 10th best forward in camp, would you keep him up? Where would he need to fall on the totem pole to tilt your determination? Let's assume he's raw but rounded which is fair pointing to recent history. Or is there another metric that you would have weighted.

 

[Djp]

Why on earth would Jost take a nickel below his QO? He'd get to be a UFA at age 25 if he doesn't get a QO from us. It's not like we are a year away from a championship and are too close to the cap to re-up him.

Now, might he test the market at circle back? Sure. But I have to think he would see what the market has for him before taking an offer below his QO.

people take lowerQO for job certainty. His production doesn’t match his salary you think he’d get on the market. If anything he likely gets more from buffalo than the open market where Buffalo offers Hino cap hit level of money for 1-2 yrs.

Mitts came in with casual fans thinking that his U20 performance would be what they would get, then got some time on LW in easy situations and put up points which reinforced that. He was the poster child for a guy who's development level play did not warrant a position on the team and then he floundered. It took them almost 18 months too long to figure out they had made a mistake so he could work on his game. Savoie is having a very good WHL season, and on personal assessment I would say he's better in his D+1 season than Mitts had in his. As the original "let Mitts go back to Minnesota for another year" guy, it's justified and they did not help matters by how they handled him.

Projecting out, Savoie needs to play. He hasn't be dominant at his club level so it's not like he's not got more to learn or do there.



Putting people in position to succeed and continue to grow their game is very much the same situation.



Again, he's having a nice year. He's not dominant at that level. He hasn't gone out and been dominant against his peer group. This idea that he's crushing the WHL is not the reality of what he's doing.

Feels like the same conversations about plenty of players who were better served by going back. If he makes it out of camp, great. That's going to indicate a level of work he puts in between now and then. But the idea that the NHL is best for him is not the way.

I view Savoie and Mitts differently.

i think part of Savoie us he feels fffff over by CHL and does not want to go back. He was one of the last in camp.

!Mitts came out of HS then a yr st college. He should have bern in Rochester the year after signing out of college like other college signees have done. He was used not in a 4 th line role which I expect for Savoie.

 

[joshjull]

It's kind of an unprecedented situation so there may be unprecedented action. The team definitely likes to keep their prospects close. Would it be crazy to have him make the squad as a 13th then release him to the U20s? A little crazy.

[B}Sure, you burn a year but that's not a big deal. [/B]Allows him to acclimate to the team and lifestyle as well as the grind and speed of the game. He should have no problem keeping up. But also not a full time guy with high expectations. Eh I just think it's a bit lazy and wasteful to let him rot. Crazy times, crazy measures.

You really think this front office would do that? The same one that made sure Quinn/Peterka didn’t trigger their ELCs last season. Players who had little in front of them and were much further ahead of Savoie development-wise.

I’m kind of baffled by how passionate you are about him going back. Savoie returning to the WHL is not a big deal at all. He certainly can improve there. He’s scoring at the same pace as his draft year.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Weegar would be awesome, but he's 29 and has another 8 years left on his contract after this season, right? That contract could be ugly in year 4 if he starts decliing in his early thirties. The cap hit isn't that bad at least. Risky move, but would come with a high reward if he's Power's partner through most of the contract.

I wonder what the cost would be. Im sure that contract is going to scare some teams away.

 

[Zman5778]

Savoie returning to the WHL is not a big deal at all.

I'd love to see some stats about the percentage of picks 6-10 that are in the NHL in their D+1 year (or is this Savoie's D+1 year? I always forget the nomenclature there.) I'm betting that it's 50/50 at best that guys taken 6-10 are in the NHL one year after being drafted. Furthering that.....it's probably a 75/25 against for CHL guys (as in, 25% of CHL players are in the NHL after just one year).

Looking at the 2021 draft - Edvinsson isn't NHL. Eklund isn't NHL. Clarke isn't NHL. Guenther got the 1/2 year in the NHL, half back to CHL treatment. Boucher isn't NHL.
Looking at 2020, Drysdale was the only NHL regular in the 21/22 season.

So recently speaking, that's ONE out of 10 that were NHL regulars and Guenther got caught in the sticky middle.

Send Savoie back to Winnipeg. It won't hurt him one bit.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I'd love to see some stats about the percentage of picks 6-10 that are in the NHL in their D+1 year (or is this Savoie's D+1 year? I always forget the nomenclature there.) I'm betting that it's 50/50 at best that guys taken 6-10 are in the NHL one year after being drafted. Furthering that.....it's probably a 75/25 against for CHL guys (as in, 25% of CHL players are in the NHL after just one year).

Looking at the 2021 draft - Edvinsson isn't NHL. Eklund isn't NHL. Clarke isn't NHL. Guenther got the 1/2 year in the NHL, half back to CHL treatment. Boucher isn't NHL.
Looking at 2020, Drysdale was the only NHL regular in the 21/22 season.

So recently speaking, that's ONE out of 10 that were NHL regulars and Guenther got caught in the sticky middle.

Send Savoie back to Winnipeg. It won't hurt him one bit.

This is Savoie’s D+1 year. D-0 is their draft year, D+1,2,etc. is whatever year after their draft eligible year.

 

[Zman5778]

This is Savoie’s D+1 year. D-0 is their draft year, D+1,2,etc. is whatever year after their draft eligible year.

I'm sure I'll remember that for the rest of this week. No guarantees thereafter.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Adams should trade for Zadorov and Weegar.

If mitts or VO get moved, Calgary wouldn't surprise me as the destination, nor would Weegar be a name that would surprise me.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Weegar would be awesome, but he's 29 and has another 8 years left on his contract after this season, right? That contract could be ugly in year 4 if he starts decliing in his early thirties. The cap hit isn't that bad at least. Risky move, but would come with a high reward if he's Power's partner through most of the contract.

I wonder what the cost would be. Im sure that contract is going to scare some teams away.

What is Calgary's motivation for moving him though, given they literally signed him to that deal just a few months ago? I can't see them spoiling on him that soon.

 

[Zman5778]

Weegar would be awesome, but he's 29 and has another 8 years left on his contract after this season, right? That contract could be ugly in year 4 if he starts decliing in his early thirties. The cap hit isn't that bad at least. Risky move, but would come with a high reward if he's Power's partner through most of the contract.

I wonder what the cost would be. Im sure that contract is going to scare some teams away.

Give. Me. Weegar. He is quite literally the perfect partner for Power.

And if his contract turns ugly in year 4 or 5 or something, we dump it to whoever is tanking that year.

Cost? That's a guy I would contemplate our unprotected 2023 1st for.

Ideally, I think it'd be a 1st (protected ideally) and a top prospect (preferably not Savoie). Maybe we'd need to pitch in a 2nd here as well, though I doubt it with the bloated contract.