Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Matt Ress]

You really think this front office would do that? The same one that made sure Quinn/Peterka didn’t trigger their ELCs last season. Players who had little in front of them and were much further ahead of Savoie development-wise.

I’m kind of baffled by how passionate you are about him going back. Savoie returning to the WHL is not a big deal at all. He certainly can improve there. He’s scoring at the same pace as his draft year.

I think the front office will do what's best for his development and I'm just not sold that him going back to the W is what's best.

I don't know how to answer the nonsense in the second paragraph about what I'm passionate about. It seems like some just disagree with me and that's fine. We're here to have discussion though.

 

[Zman5778]

What is Calgary's motivation for moving him though, given they literally signed him to that deal just a few months ago? I can't see them spoiling on him that soon.

Oh, they don't have motivation to move him at all. He's likely not remotely available.

But if he is, I want him.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

What is Calgary's motivation for moving him though, given they literally signed him to that deal just a few months ago? I can't see them spoiling on him that soon.

theyve been hunting for goal scorers and rumor has them shopping defensemen to get it, Weegar included

 

[Bendium]

I mean everybody is whatever. My point from the start is that it's a unique situation and broad stroking it would be lazy. Again, I hope Adams (i mistakenly said Granato earlier) is being more diligent than that. He showed well in this past camp and I would assume he'll be at least as impressive in this upcoming camp. You were predetermining the outcome and I don't the club has the same mindset.

I agree with you now that if he makes the club out of camp, great. If he was say the 10th best forward in camp, would you keep him up? Where would he need to fall on the totem pole to tilt your determination? Let's assume he's raw but rounded which is fair pointing to recent history. Or is there another metric that you would have weighted.

You have stated that Savoie's situation is a "unique situation" several times now. How? Seems to me it is a very common situation. Almost all players drafted out of the OHL/WHL go back and spend two years there before moving on to the AHL or other. What is unusual, but still happens a few times per year, is a player making the jump to the NHL after only one year in juniors. Usually they are high draft picks with some size, that are absolutely dominating the junior leagues to the tune of 2-2.5 ppg. Also I think there are some overagers that hit the 20 year mark that can mover after one year.

A recent example is Dylan Cozens. He was an 8th pick , was dominating Juniors at about a 2.25 ppg clip for the second half of the season. He was big enough at 6'3 180lbs to not get caved in at the NHL level. It would have been best for him to go to the AHL, but the rules meant he had to go back to juniors or up to the Sabres. Due to poor Sabres management the NHL team was desperate for centers and so it was an easy call to bring him up.

Savoie is nowhere near as dominant as Cozens was, and the Sabres are not desperate to fill a bottom six position, so I can't see why they would do it. Except fast tracking prospects seems to be what they are doing, so they probably will. F if I know.

 

[joshjull]

I think the front office will do what's best for his development and I'm just not sold that him going back to the W is what's best.

I don't know how to answer the nonsense in the second paragraph about what I'm passionate about. It seems like some just disagree with me and that's fine. We're here to have discussion though.

Nonsense? You asserted he was going to rot in the WHL. Then preceded to argue strongly in several post why that needed to be prevented. Even to the point of him just hanging around on the roster as an extra forward to avoid going back. That came across to me as you feeling quite passionate that he should be kept out of the WHL. Thats what I found baffling. Maybe I should have worded it different and said “felt quite strongly” instead.

 

[Matt Ress]

Nonsense? You asserted he was going to rot in the WHL. Then preceded to argue strongly in several post why that needed to be prevented. Even to the point of him just hanging around on the roster as an extra forward to avoid going back. That came across to me as you feeling quite passionate that he should be kept out of the WHL. Thats what I found baffling. Maybe I should have worded it different and said “felt quite strongly” instead.

Ok

 

[Sabre the Win]

I get that in your mind there is no way anyone ever would want to do anything in and around Buffalo, but the guy himself did just say this:

How Kevyn Adams, Don Granato are handling the human element of the trade deadline

Kevyn Adams and Don Granato's relationships with each other and the players are keeping everyone on the same page.

theathletic.com

Pump the brakes on loathing on the franchise a moment.

I enjoyed this read from the Athletic, it's good to see we have come so far along from the Eichel era and bad GM's/coaches.

 

[Gras]

So I had a bit of fun at cap friendly.

An idea that came out:

Move Lybushkin at 50% retained for a 2nd (2024)
Package prospect + 2023 2nd for Fabbro (or Bryson if they want a warm body)
Try to sign a decent LHD this summer (for this example I signed graves to a 3x4 deal)

Samuelsson-Dahlin
Power-Fabbro
Graves-Joker

For forwards, I flipped Mittelstadt for Greenway, Olofsson for Sturm+ Pick, signed Fast (2x2.5) and Leivo (1x1). Re-upped Girgensons at 3x1.75. Jost wasn't QO'd

Skinner-Thompson-Tuch
Greenway-Cozens-Quinn
Peterka-Krebs-Fast
Girgensons-Sturm-Leivo

In goal, I bought out Comrie and signed Raanta to a 3 year, 4.5M per deal.

I feel like this team would be way above the Cap floor, which just isn't simply possible with how cheap Pegula has become.

 

[Matt Ress]

You have stated that Savoie's situation is a "unique situation" several times now. How? Seems to me it is a very common situation. Almost all players drafted out of the OHL/WHL go back and spend two years there before moving on to the AHL or other. What is unusual, but still happens a few times per year, is a player making the jump to the NHL after only one year in juniors. Usually they are high draft picks with some size, that are absolutely dominating the junior leagues to the tune of 2-2.5 ppg. Also I think there are some overagers that hit the 20 year mark that can mover after one year.

A recent example is Dylan Cozens. He was an 8th pick , was dominating Juniors at about a 2.25 ppg clip for the second half of the season. He was big enough at 6'3 180lbs to not get caved in at the NHL level. It would have been best for him to go to the AHL, but the rules meant he had to go back to juniors or up to the Sabres. Due to poor Sabres management the NHL team was desperate for centers and so it was an easy call to bring him up.

Savoie is nowhere near as dominant as Cozens was, and the Sabres are not desperate to fill a bottom six position, so I can't see why they would do it. Except fast tracking prospects seems to be what they are doing, so they probably will. F if I know.

I wouldn't be looking to fast track necessarily. As I stated over and over, is going back to W his best path? I don't think his 4th year in the juniors (which would make his situation unique, aside from the COVID year) would help him as much as another path. Did you just read one post? It's not a fast track vs. slow cook. It's just not that simple of a situation.

 

[Zman5778]

I wouldn't be looking to fast track necessarily. As I stated over and over, is going back to W his best path? I don't think his 4th year in the juniors (which would make his situation unique, aside from the COVID year) would help him as much as another path. Did you just read one post? It's not a fast track vs. slow cook. It's just not that simple of a situation.

The only way I would consider another path for Savoie is if he's utterly dominated the WHL. He hasn't.

He's been good....very good....but he hasn't been dominant. There's still plenty for him to learn and develop in Winnipeg.

 

[Bendium]

I wouldn't be looking to fast track necessarily. As I stated over and over, is going back to W his best path? I don't think his 4th year in the juniors (which would make his situation unique, aside from the COVID year) would help him as much as another path. Did you just read one post? It's not a fast track vs. slow cook. It's just not that simple of a situation.

I read every one of your posts. I don't think you're listening to the reply's people are giving you. So let me answer the question again.

Yes.

The situation is very simple. His best path would likely be the AHL. That is not available. There are two options left. Advance two levels to the NHL next year, or stay at his current level in the CHL one more year. Staying in the CHL is the better option.

The NHL club is a rising playoff bubble team, and next year will have the full expectation of fans, management, and players to make the playoffs. Did you consider whether it is fair to a team like that to make them carry an undersized 19 year old eating up minutes in the bottom six instead of say, a useful veteran 4th line penalty killer, just so Savoie doesn't have to play another year in the CHL? If I was Tage, Tuch, Dahlin, Skinner, etc, I would be pretty annoyed with management for not giving me all the help they could get.

 

[Zman5778]

I read every one of your posts. I don't think you're listening to the reply's people are giving you. So let me answer the question again.

Yes.

The situation is very simple. His best path would likely be the AHL. That is not available. There are two options left. Advance two levels to the NHL next year, or stay at his current level in the CHL one more year. Staying in the CHL is the better option.

The NHL club is a rising playoff bubble team, and next year will have the full expectation of fans, management, and players to make the playoffs. Did you consider whether it is fair to a team like that to make them carry an undersized 19 year old eating up minutes in the bottom six instead of say, a useful veteran 4th line penalty killer, just so Savoie doesn't have to play another year in the CHL. If I was Tage, Tuch, Dahlin, Skinner, etc, I would be pretty annoyed with management for not giving me all the help they could get.

If we're not the poster children for "This is what happens when you rush a draft pick"........we should be. Given where we are in the team's development, rushing a pick should be a thing we never do ever again.

 

[TehDoak]

I get that in your mind there is no way anyone ever would want to do anything in and around Buffalo, but the guy himself did just say this:

How Kevyn Adams, Don Granato are handling the human element of the trade deadline

Kevyn Adams and Don Granato's relationships with each other and the players are keeping everyone on the same page.

theathletic.com

Pump the brakes on loathing on the franchise a moment.

I really don't see how anything I said was in anyway besmirching the franchises "good" name.

It's pretty rare for a player to take less than his QO.

I have to think any player would at least test the market first before looping back. Either way, I'm opposed to giving Jost at this point.

I feel like this team would be way above the Cap floor, which just isn't simply possible with how cheap Pegula has become.

You can laugh all you want....their cheapness is going to end up being the reason we miss the playoffs for an 11th straight year. Good to know we're being 'economic and efficient' while we piss away a norris and hart caliber season by our players.

I'm ASSUMING the reigns will be loosed a little bit because of improved play. But again, I thought that last year and was disappointed.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Savoie will come to camp. He'll probably get some preseason action as well. And if he shows that he's ready, he'll get into the 9 game tryout. But if not, they'll send him back to the WHL with a list of things to work on, and that will be that.

 

[michaelsaas]

I'm ASSUMING the reigns will be loosed a little bit because of improved play. But again, I thought that last year and was disappointed.

If you thought that last year, I certainly don't remember it coming across in your posts.

 

[Djp]

I'd love to see some stats about the percentage of picks 6-10 that are in the NHL in their D+1 year (or is this Savoie's D+1 year? I always forget the nomenclature there.) I'm betting that it's 50/50 at best that guys taken 6-10 are in the NHL one year after being drafted. Furthering that.....it's probably a 75/25 against for CHL guys (as in, 25% of CHL players are in the NHL after just one year).

Looking at the 2021 draft - Edvinsson isn't NHL. Eklund isn't NHL. Clarke isn't NHL. Guenther got the 1/2 year in the NHL, half back to CHL treatment. Boucher isn't NHL.
Looking at 2020, Drysdale was the only NHL regular in the 21/22 season.

So recently speaking, that's ONE out of 10 that were NHL regulars and Guenther got caught in the sticky middle.

Send Savoie back to Winnipeg. It won't hurt him one bit.

a factor is if they are playing in Europe ehich would skew the stats because the players are under contract as a teen and cant sign or they play a season in minors to get used to NA style.

i see him staying in buffalo at the start of the regular season.

You have stated that Savoie's situation is a "unique situation" several times now. How? Seems to me it is a very common situation. Almost all players drafted out of the OHL/WHL go back and spend two years there before moving on to the AHL or other. What is unusual, but still happens a few times per year, is a player making the jump to the NHL after only one year in juniors. Usually they are high draft picks with some size, that are absolutely dominating the junior leagues to the tune of 2-2.5 ppg. Also I think there are some overagers that hit the 20 year mark that can mover after one year.

A recent example is Dylan Cozens. He was an 8th pick , was dominating Juniors at about a 2.25 ppg clip for the second half of the season. He was big enough at 6'3 180lbs to not get caved in at the NHL level. It would have been best for him to go to the AHL, but the rules meant he had to go back to juniors or up to the Sabres. Due to poor Sabres management the NHL team was desperate for centers and so it was an easy call to bring him up.

Savoie is nowhere near as dominant as Cozens was, and the Sabres are not desperate to fill a bottom six position, so I can't see why they would do it. Except fast tracking prospects seems to be what they are doing, so they probably will. F if I know.

it’s unique because

if Covid did not ocvur thrn this woukd have bern the last year CHL had his rights so next year he could play innthe AHL. Because Covid happened, CHL gets a go- over?

CHL rights are for only four years. 23/24 would be a 5th year for Savoie.

Savoie likely doesn’t give a f*** Anymore.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I'm sure I'll remember that for the rest of this week. No guarantees thereafter.

Live look at Zman hammering that knowledge home:

 

[Chainshot]

I really don't see how anything I said was in anyway besmirching the franchises "good" name.

What, that it is possible for the players to say things like they want to be here and may be willing to accept a role appropriate contract is not strange. And yes, you spend a great deal of time just hammering on the same point about how much they suck and therefore no one will want to be in Buffalo. In the face of another player saying they like what is going on and being done and that they want to be around it, the post quoted seems like trying to shift goalposts.

I await another treatise on how last year was a fluke and thus this year is too.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

What, that it is possible for the players to say things like they want to be here and may be willing to accept a role appropriate contract is not strange. And yes, you spend a great deal of time just hammering on the same point about how much they suck and therefore no one will want to be in Buffalo. In the face of another player saying they like what is going on and being done and that they want to be around it, the post quoted seems like trying to shift goalposts.

I await another treatise on how last year was a fluke and thus this year is too.

It’s obvious why players don’t wanna be playing for Buffalo: they can make almost nothing for a contender and be a depth piece, or they could be a big piece of the puzzle for the Sabres.

It’s why Panarin signed with Tampa for league minimum. And why they have Tavares as a 4C and Pietrangelo as a 7th D.

 

[Irie]

I'm not too worried about Orlov's downturn this year, or Gavrikov's. They're both filling in as #1 Dman while their team's true #1 are out injured.

If anything, it helps keep their aav and term down in a contract year.

I'm still very much on the Orlov or Gavrikov train as a 1st/2nd pairing upgrade.

+ Nick Jensen as a 2nd/3rd pairing upgrade.

I think it would be wise to be worried about Orlov's down year.

he's going to be 32, the age where most NHL defensemen tend to quickly decline.

Sure, he could go on and play well for 5 more years and have some great season, but the odds are against that.

A team trading for him is going to likely look to extend him to maximize the value of what they gave up to acquire him, and he will be looking for his retirement contract. While most defensemen start to quickly decline at 32, it also stands that most D are borderline unserviceable by 34. (there are only 18 defensemen in the league that are 34 or older, and several of no longer very good or unable to play).

I think it is safe to play the odds in these situations and expect a large regression, versus hoping the player is an anomaly and not the norm.

 

[TehDoak]

What, that it is possible for the players to say things like they want to be here and may be willing to accept a role appropriate contract is not strange. And yes, you spend a great deal of time just hammering on the same point about how much they suck and therefore no one will want to be in Buffalo. In the face of another player saying they like what is going on and being done and that they want to be around it, the post quoted seems like trying to shift goalposts.

I await another treatise on how last year was a fluke and thus this year is too.

The original post I responded to was simply assuming a player would accept lower than the QO. I was pointing out it'd be highly illogical to do so without at least seeing his market. It has nothing to do with the team. I'm not trying to take a piss on the Sabres here. You're seeing offense where there is none.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

The original post I responded to was simply assuming a player would accept lower than the QO. I was pointing out it'd be highly illogical to do so without at least seeing his market. It has nothing to do with the team. I'm not trying to take a piss on the Sabres here. You're seeing offense where there is none.

Says the guy with the "KA is Kevin dumping chili on the office floor" avatar. I'm critical at certain times, but I think only Ace has you covered for regular duty hours.

 

[TehDoak]

Says the guy with the "KA is Kevin dumping chili on the office floor" avatar. I'm critical at certain times, but I think only Ace has you covered for regular duty hours.

Sorry I forgot to sign my ‘front office fealty’ fan membership card. Where do I sign up for the reeducation camp?

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Sorry I forgot to sign my ‘front office fealty’ fan membership card. Where do I sign up for the reeducation camp?

No re-education necessary, just accept that we know your role here.

 

[debaser66]

Nothing, but I wouldn’t rule out the increased comp of a Euro league being better.

the bigger ice also requires a readjustment to the NA game again