Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Doug Prishpreed]

That's fun hockey. Let's play like the Islanders and hope to grind out another 2-1 win maybe.

The only options aren't one extreme or another. Buffalo and Islanders are extreme examples of their style of play. I feel there are 16 playoff teams from last year that don't fit into either extreme style, and probably works best.

 

[Dingo44]

It blows my mind that we have one of the absolute highest scoring teams in hockey and we have five players at a point per game or better pace and people are complaining that we don't concentrate on defense first. I've sat through too many years of boring ass hockey to want to go back. I'm not saying we don't need to play better defensively, but with the youngest team in hockey it's about skill development and building confidence first and then the defensive play and systems can come later beyond what comes naturally with experience. I'm sure Donnie and his staff is going over defensive breakdowns on video and working with the guys but offensive skill is much harder to develop than defensive skill. This season has been one of the most entertaining seasons for years and we're actually five games over .500 near the end of January and three points out of a playoff spot and that's with an eight game losing streak in November. This team is YOUNG and only going to get better. Not sure what some people are expecting because this is the plan and so far so good.

 

[Beerz]

I would question that as the Sabres have three players more if not five more who can finish plays from distance than the Islanders do. The Islanders are partially limited to playing that style because even with Barzal, they don't have the shooters.

They are now paying the price of not having a 1st round pick since 2019 .. and the likes of Wahlstrom, Bellows, Beauviller, Dal Colle and Ho Sang not panning out.

 

[Djp]

If they stay in the play off picture, Id love to add one or even both of Gostisbehere and Luke Schenn as insurance policy because we know injuries are gonna happen.

They could form a pairing or slot in up and down the line up in a pinch.

Both are UFA after the season so won't block the youngins and shouldn't cost too much to acquire, bidding war nonwithstanding.

Not blowing picked on UFAs.

Schenn will be a bidding war. Ghost is off first.

7 is about as high as I want to go for Cozens.

Maybe bridge is best route. I'm still not sold on Cozens being a 5v5 producer.

i prefer they do a bridge to see what he is…a center vs wing.

how much of a play driver is he vs benefitting from PP or linemates.

So you watch all the teams giving up their 1st rounders, just to fizzle out in the first round, and you say -- sign me up for that?

Spending assets on rentals when you wouldn't win a single playoff game is the dumbest thing Adams could do.

if you are a division winner your pick is 25-32. Likely result if you are 1+3 of the best teams not winning division.

if you aren’t there you shouldn’t be moving 1sts for rentals.

It blows my mind that we have one of the absolute highest scoring teams in hockey and we have five players at a point per game or better pace and people are complaining that we don't concentrate on defense first. I've sat through too many years of boring ass hockey to want to go back. I'm not saying we don't need to play better defensively, but with the youngest team in hockey it's about skill development and building confidence first and then the defensive play and systems can come later beyond what comes naturally with experience. I'm sure Donnie and his staff is going over defensive breakdowns on video and working with the guys but offensive skill is much harder to develop than defensive skill. This season has been one of the most entertaining seasons for years and we're actually five games over .500 near the end of January and three points out of a playoff spot and that's with an eight game losing streak in November. This team is YOUNG and only going to get better. Not sure what some people are expecting because this is the plan and so far so good.

I’ve said numerous times I’d rather have a high scoring team that is losing more. That a D first team still Losing

 

[Chainshot]

They are now paying the price of not having a 1st round pick since 2019 .. and the likes of Wahlstrom, Bellows, Beauviller, Dal Colle and Ho Sang not panning out.

It could be traced even further back - Ryan Strome, Griffin Reinhart - but that the highest scorer they've drafted and developed in-house since Barzal fell into their laps is Noah Dobson. Seven years without drafting a single 20-goal scorer thus far is a talent gap that can't be easily made up.

I wouldn't mind if Buffalo learns how to go into a sleepy style that takes away the middle and neutral zone when they are up. Granted, with their fire power right now, the chances they generate off that via counterpunching on the rush are going to be dangerous just through who they have out there.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

It could be traced even further back - Ryan Strome, Griffin Reinhart - but that the highest scorer they've drafted and developed in-house since Barzal fell into their laps is Noah Dobson. Seven years without drafting a single 20-goal scorer thus far is a talent gap that can't be easily made up.

I wouldn't mind if Buffalo learns how to go into a sleepy style that takes away the middle and neutral zone when they are up. Granted, with their fire power right now, the chances they generate off that via counterpunching on the rush are going to be dangerous just through who they have out there.

Teams like Dallas can do both, which will give them a big leg up in the playoffs. I feel like that will come slowly for Buffalo -- Granato will (hopefully) eventually get them there, but they have to go one step at a time.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

I definitely think advanced stats need to come more into play than pure traditional stats. On a team like the Sabres where they are playing a high danger aggressive offensive style, players are going to generate more points than on a team with a more conservative defensive approach. Players need to be paid according to how much they contribute to winning. I love Cozens, but we are shooting ourselves in the foot contract wise by playing this run and gun style with him getting 1PP time and second line minutes all year.

First, I reject off the bat the idea that advanced stats aren't getting their proper influence. Most of the NHL has an advanced analytics department and the ones that don't are run by 70 year olds. 1 dimensional goal scorer are not being resigned at the same rate and certainly not for the same contracts that they were even 5 years ago. So to start I think your entire premise is wrong. Second, to then suggest that the Sabres would be better off if they changed the way they are using a player because it will give the player more leverage in a future contract negotiation? WTF? I should be able to skip how bad it would look on the Sabres organization if it got out that they were keeping ELC or RFA players on worse lines to keep them cheap, but since someone suggested it, that would crush the organization amongst free agents and restricted trade targets for a generation. Not to mention the message that would be sent to the locker and to a player that many have pegged as the a future captain. f***ing with someone's livelihood so you can get them cheaper is scum.

 

[Irie]

It blows my mind that we have one of the absolute highest scoring teams in hockey and we have five players at a point per game or better pace and people are complaining that we don't concentrate on defense first. I've sat through too many years of boring ass hockey to want to go back. I'm not saying we don't need to play better defensively, but with the youngest team in hockey it's about skill development and building confidence first and then the defensive play and systems can come later beyond what comes naturally with experience. I'm sure Donnie and his staff is going over defensive breakdowns on video and working with the guys but offensive skill is much harder to develop than defensive skill. This season has been one of the most entertaining seasons for years and we're actually five games over .500 near the end of January and three points out of a playoff spot and that's with an eight game losing streak in November. This team is YOUNG and only going to get better. Not sure what some people are expecting because this is the plan and so far so good.

I see both sides of this argument as legitimate.

Gotta love that Granato has the kids expanding their offensive talent and is pushing their confidence to become more creative players, but the lack of discipline is leading to super wide open games.

Razor called last night's game Shinny, and he was spot on.

You can't win in the playoffs playing that style and it leads to developing bad habits.

That said, I'd rather have this than a Trotz system neutering the young players offensive development, but I think there is actually a compromise between the two that this team should be striving for.

Let the kids play, but tighten up the defensive discipline, especially of the F3 on the forecheck, and all the forwards in the D zone.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I see both sides of this argument as legitimate.

Gotta love that Granato has the kids expanding their offensive talent and is pushing their confidence to become more creative players, but the lack of discipline is leading to super wide open games.

Razor called last night's game Shinny, and he was spot on.

You can't win in the playoffs playing that style and it leads to developing bad habits.

That said, I'd rather have this than a Trotz system neutering the young players offensive development, but I think there is actually a compromise between the two that this team should be striving for.

Let the kids play, but tighten up the defensive discipline, especially of the F3 on the forecheck, and all the forwards in the D zone.

You can have Trotz level defensive zone awareness and positioning, and still encourage speed and creativity through the neutral zone into the O-zone (not easy of course but worth striving for). But what the Sabres try too much of, amounts to over-passing to the point that they surprise each other sending pucks off to random spaces and into odd-mans for the opponent. If their skill and experience matches what they try then fine, but they get into habits of going "hot-dog" beyond what they're really capable of. They generate chances in waves at times...and also flub just as many when the right thing is to get the puck on net and crash.

 

[Bendium]

First, I reject off the bat the idea that advanced stats aren't getting their proper influence. Most of the NHL has an advanced analytics department and the ones that don't are run by 70 year olds. 1 dimensional goal scorer are not being resigned at the same rate and certainly not for the same contracts that they were even 5 years ago. So to start I think your entire premise is wrong. Second, to then suggest that the Sabres would be better off if they changed the way they are using a player because it will give the player more leverage in a future contract negotiation? WTF? I should be able to skip how bad it would look on the Sabres organization if it got out that they were keeping ELC or RFA players on worse lines to keep them cheap, but since someone suggested it, that would crush the organization amongst free agents and restricted trade targets for a generation. Not to mention the message that would be sent to the locker and to a player that many have pegged as the a future captain. f***ing with someone's livelihood so you can get them cheaper is scum.

There must be something in the water today.

I never said the bolded.

 

[Irie]

You can have Trotz level defensive zone awareness and positioning, and still encourage speed and creativity through the neutral zone into the O-zone (not easy of course but worth striving for). But what the Sabres try too much of, amounts to over-passing to the point that they surprise each other sending pucks off to random spaces and into odd-mans for the opponent. If their skill and experience matches what they try then fine, but they get into habits of going "hot-dog" beyond what they're really capable of. They generate chances in waves at times...and also flub just as many when the right thing is to get the puck on net and crash.

I agree, partially.

Trotz really does neuter his young offensive guys though.

He pushes his defensive system and rewards conservative play and punishes aggressive play and missed defensive assignments.

I do believe that teaching the kids to be more defensively aware and disciplined does not have to be so limiting like Trotz instills. The problem is his system relies on everyone playing hard D with a conservative philosophy on risk taking.

There just isn't anywhere near the offensive creativity development in a Trotz system that you get from Granato's wide open "let them play, experiment, and make mistakes" philosophy.

 

[joshjull]

 

[Mattilaus]

There must be something in the water today.

I never said the bolded.

Maybe if everyone is misinterpreting what you are trying to say the fault lies with your posts rather than everyone else?

 

[Chainshot]

And that's with Anderson and his 41-year old self.

 

[Ace]

A good way to improve the defending while knowing your two minute eaters are puck movers is to not have people like Bryson on the ice when they aren’t.

There is a certain amount of wide openness against you have to live with because Power and especially Dahlin are going to push like playmaking forwards. But we produce when they’re out there and are better when they’re out there.

Then you have Bryson. The offensive defenseman who puts up no offense.

Physical D like Lyubushkin also offers some PK and he can kill entries.

Bryson is bad. Joker is ill fitting in the top 4. Need to get some reliable people in those spots. You want to be real good? Consistently good? Upgrade those two position.

 

[Dingo44]

You can have Trotz level defensive zone awareness and positioning, and still encourage speed and creativity through the neutral zone into the O-zone (not easy of course but worth striving for). But what the Sabres try too much of, amounts to over-passing to the point that they surprise each other sending pucks off to random spaces and into odd-mans for the opponent. If their skill and experience matches what they try then fine, but they get into habits of going "hot-dog" beyond what they're really capable of. They generate chances in waves at times...and also flub just as many when the right thing is to get the puck on net and crash.

That's fair. But Donny does get on them when they get into bad habits. He said yesterday he told them they needed to change how they were playing and stop going lateral and go deep. It's not like Donny says "Just go have fun" and they don't get corrected when they make mistakes. They need to learn to use their confidence and skill and creativity in a way that doesn't end up in odd man rushes or giving the puck away. Winning also builds confidence. I in no way think they're a finished product. It's going to take development I think developing offense first and defense second is better than the opposite.
If you look at Donnie's coaching record in other leagues, he's had teams near the top in GA as well. He's also been exposed to all kinds of systems. I believe it is in him to coach with what he has, where they are, and in what situation.

 

[Zman5778]

A good way to improve the defending while knowing your two minute eaters are puck movers is to not have people like Bryson on the ice when they aren’t.

There is a certain amount of wide openness against you have to live with because Power and especially Dahlin are going to push like playmaking forwards. But we produce when they’re out there and are better when they’re out there.

Then you have Bryson. The offensive defenseman who puts up no offense.

Physical D like Lyubushkin also offers some PK and he can kill entries.

Bryson is bad. Joker is ill fitting in the top 4. Need to get some reliable people in those spots. You want to be real good? Consistently good? Upgrade those two position.

Really awkward time to be posting this rant given that Bryson and Boosh have been a very good 3rd pairing the last 2/3 games, and that Joker and Power seem to be meshing really nicely together.

Maybe it's a phase......or maybe what we've seen the last couple of games is closer to the way the defense should and will be playing the rest of the season.

Could we improve on Bryson? Sure. But he's playing well right now.

And the best way to improve the defense? Getting buy-ins from the forwards who aren't on the KOG line.

 

[Chainshot]

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I agree, partially.

Trotz really does neuter his young offensive guys though.

He pushes his defensive system and rewards conservative play and punishes aggressive play and missed defensive assignments.

I do believe that teaching the kids to be more defensively aware and disciplined does not have to be so limiting like Trotz instills. The problem is his system relies on everyone playing hard D with a conservative philosophy on risk taking.

There just isn't anywhere near the offensive creativity development in a Trotz system that you get from Granato's wide open "let them play, experiment, and make mistakes" philosophy.

Yes agree, didn't mean to come off as taking a Trotz system so literally. I just want to see them be more aware in the D-zone and that partially comes from better positioning. That's something Trotz preaches very well, but the rest of the confidence and creative stifling is not what I want from Granato...at all.

That's fair. But Donny does get on them when they get into bad habits. He said yesterday he told them they needed to change how they were playing and stop going lateral and go deep. It's not like Donny says "Just go have fun" and they don't get corrected when they make mistakes. They need to learn to use their confidence and skill and creativity in a way that doesn't end up in odd man rushes or giving the puck away. Winning also builds confidence. I in no way think they're a finished product. It's going to take development I think developing offense first and defense second is better than the opposite.
If you look at Donnie's coaching record in other leagues, he's had teams near the top in GA as well. He's also been exposed to all kinds of systems. I believe it is in him to coach with what he has, where they are, and in what situation.

I remain pretty happy/impressed with Granato and accept that it will take time for the team to get it right most of the time, but then those mistakes from the 8 game skid and the first 10 minutes last night make for some real head-scratching moments.

 

[Chainshot]

So Lebrun is saying Buffalo has contacted the Sharks about Meier:

 

[Ace]

whenever information about the Sabres comes out it’s clearly never them leaking it. Contact them about Meier doesn’t do them any favors…but it tells 30 other teams something San Jose wants out there. And since we are so tight lipped on everything teams can go ahead an assume it’s a real interest. No one is going to tell them otherwise.

 

[Zman5778]

whenever information about the Sabres comes out it’s clearly never them leaking it. Contact them about Meier doesn’t do them any favors…but it tells 30 other teams something San Jose wants out there. And since we are so tight lipped on everything teams can go ahead an assume it’s a real interest. No one is going to tell them otherwise.

Yeah, this is accurate. But I also think that Adams DID call SJ and inquired into the price for Meier. It's likely too much for Adams, but can't blame him for checking in with Grier.

 

[toomuchsauce]

So you watch all the teams giving up their 1st rounders, just to fizzle out in the first round, and you say -- sign me up for that?

Spending assets on rentals when you wouldn't win a single playoff game is the dumbest thing Adams could do.

STRAW. MAN. ARGUMENT. stop it, with this. who - WHO??? - has ever said anything about trading 1sts for rentals? Who is calling for this? Who even are this years crop of "1st round pick worthy" rentals? I've never even heard anyone talking about it (other than Patrick Kane, who some people in Buffalo have been talking about trading for since *checks notes* before he was drafted). No one has ever said "I'll tell you what Kevyn Adams should do. Trade Cozens, Quinn and Peterka for Toews." Not stats bros. Not internet contrarians. Not guys who call sports radio and pronounce everyone's names wrong. Not old guys who say things like "ya seen 'em" unironically. NO ONE.

Trades are infrequent in the NHL, but they do happen. The Sabres have even been involved in several of them. Can we stop pretending we don't even know what they are?

 

[toomuchsauce]

Look, either you trade Cozens, Savoie and your unconditional 2023 1st for a 38-year old UFA winger with a torn achilles, or you do nothing at all. Those are the only 2 options. I am a serious person.

Oh, you want [guy who has been rumored to available in a trade for over a year on a team that's actively tanking]? Gonna cost ya Power, Quinn, Ostlund, 2023 1st, 2023 2nd, 2024 1st, and, uh...throw in Mittelstadt and a 5th, just to balance it out. That's just what it costs to do business in the NHL.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

There must be something in the water today.

I never said the bolded.

"On a team like the Sabres where they are playing a high danger aggressive offensive style, players are going to generate more points than on a team with a more conservative defensive approach... I love Cozens, but we are shooting ourselves in the foot contract wise by playing this run and gun style with him getting 1PP time and second line minutes all year."

please explain what this means

because I (and it seems like everyone else) reads it "the sabres play a style that makes cozens points stats look better than his actual contribution to winning. I love him but with us feeding him prime minutes hes going to command money equal to his points totals and not his actual value to winning"

which leaves no other conclusion in my mind then that you must want to see him used like you think he should be because then his cost wont be as high?