Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Dirty Dog]

Be very careful believing that their answer won’t be whatever is easiest and cheapest.

Imagine watching Adams’ plan come alive these past 18 months with great success and think it’s just being easy/cheap.

Some people can see the forest through the trees…others obsess over thinking they saw Bigfoot hiding in the corner

 

[Beerz]

I think Chychrun in a real world is a great buy, but I still just want to see him healthy for the majority of the season. He is an amazing talent and at 24, yes, he's got a lot of his prime yet. To pay 2 first round picks and more for a guy who hasn't played a full season in 3 years, is a bit much for me personally. We do need another body back there. I'd still be calling about Andrew Peeke or a player like him.

The Chychrun price will come down eventually but as of now.. Arizona has nothing but time.

 

[Uberpecker]

If they stay in the play off picture, Id love to add one or even both of Gostisbehere and Luke Schenn as insurance policy because we know injuries are gonna happen.

They could form a pairing or slot in up and down the line up in a pinch.

Both are UFA after the season so won't block the youngins and shouldn't cost too much to acquire, bidding war nonwithstanding.

 

[Jim Bob]

They were neighbors lived 3 miles apart in Boca Raton, and the Pegs daughter was friends with Chychrun. You can even find stories of Chychrun talking about the Pegulas growing up.

Look there is 32 NHL teams. Chuchryn can go to 31 of the teams or stay. I am just taking an educated guess that is just as good as him going anywhere else. Most "experts" have or had Buffalo as the odds on favorite.
That being said there is a good chance he also stays.


The defense has to be improved in the next 12 months and there is no defensive prospect in the system(ready or worthy atm) so why can't Adams trade for Chychrun? No way we go into the start of next season with Boosh, Bryson, Clague and Pilut as our 5-6-7-8

I think the talking heads linking the Sabres to any big name trade target are coming from it purely from the "they have the trade assets and the cap space to make it happen" point of view.

They are completely ignoring what Kevyn Adams has said repeatedly about how he is approaching roster building and instead trying to use their own logic to put two and two together.

Thompson is on a bridge.

samuelsson didn’t start as a teen.

Adams signed Thompson to that bridge contract after a season where he played in 1 NHL game and 16 AHL games.

That is not the situation that Owen Power and Dylan Cozens will be in when they sign their next contracts.

 

[TehDoak]

Adams signed Thompson to that bridge contract after a season where he played in 1 NHL game and 16 AHL games.

It still blows my mind that this somehow ended up being a good idea. It's like watching Mr McGoo avoid a construction i beam by bending over to pick up a penny.

 

[Jim Bob]

It still blows my mind that this somehow ended up being a good idea. It's like watching Mr McGoo avoid a construction i beam by bending over to pick up a penny.

Given where Thompson was in his career, I don't know what other path would have been the right call.

Giving guys like Mitts and Jokiharju their bridge deals made sense, as well.

You lock up guys you are pretty sure about, even if it is before others see it. You bridge guys that you aren't sold on yet.

And there is no way that anyone was completely sold on Thompson long term coming off of the 2019-20 season.

 

[TehDoak]

Given where Thompson was in his career, I don't know what other path would have been the right call.

Giving guys like Mitts and Jokiharju their bridge deals made sense, as well.

You lock up guys you are pretty sure about, even if it is before others see it. You bridge guys that you aren't sold on yet.

And there is no way that anyone was completely sold on Thompson long term coming off of the 2019-20 season.

Typically players in that situation sign their QO and are happy to have been offered one. I certainly get there is something to be said about risking little by putting faith in players and giving them a long term deal before they are ready, that the loyalty will be rewarded. Adams probably saved a bit of $ long term by signing Thompson to that extension last year. But the giving Samuelsson a 7 year deal before his ELC was even up...I mean these kind of deals are going to come back and bite Adams hard sooner or later. The reality of the NHL is....your core players get long term deals, everyone else needs to be as cheap as possible. That's how you keep your core together. Term is probably the most dangerous thing to freely give out, much more so than dollars. The only real saving grace Adams has is the under 26 buyout rule does give you an escape hatch for 1/3rd of the contract value (like we did with Hodgson), still is a risky proposition. Locking secondary players. into a long term deals is nearly always the road to ruin.

 

[stokes84]

Cozens will get the Boldy contract.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

This would be a summer trade, but if Chychrun stays on the market I wouldn't mind a three-way deal with LA to help them get Chychrun so that they can trade Roy to Buffalo. Then sign Ryan Graves for LHD.

Samuelsson - Dahlin
Power - Roy
Graves - Jokiharju
Lyubushkin

 

[Jim Bob]

Typically players in that situation sign their QO and are happy to have been offered one. I certainly get there is something to be said about risking little by putting faith in players and giving them a long term deal before they are ready, that the loyalty will be rewarded. Adams probably saved a bit of $ long term by signing Thompson to that extension last year. But the giving Samuelsson a 7 year deal before his ELC was even up...I mean these kind of deals are going to come back and bite Adams hard sooner or later. The reality of the NHL is....your core players get long term deals, everyone else needs to be as cheap as possible. That's how you keep your core together. Term is probably the most dangerous thing to freely give out, much more so than dollars. The only real saving grace Adams has is the under 26 buyout rule does give you an escape hatch for 1/3rd of the contract value (like we did with Hodgson), still is a risky proposition. Locking secondary players. into a long term deals is nearly always the road to ruin.

You do not see Samuelsson being a core guy for the length of that extension?

I sure do.

 

[Chainshot]

Cozens will get the Boldy contract.

I wonder if Cozens is going to get the Norris or Suzuki at around 9.65% of cap. That's going to put him around $8M AAV.

 

[Jim Bob]

Cozens will get the Boldy contract.

Cozens will want more than the Boldy contract.

Cozens is a center who is on pace for 75 points this season.

Boldy is a winger who is on pace for 58 points this season.

 

[Beerz]

7 is about as high as I want to go for Cozens.

 

[Chainshot]

Typically players in that situation sign their QO and are happy to have been offered one. I certainly get there is something to be said about risking little by putting faith in players and giving them a long term deal before they are ready, that the loyalty will be rewarded. Adams probably saved a bit of $ long term by signing Thompson to that extension last year. But the giving Samuelsson a 7 year deal before his ELC was even up...I mean these kind of deals are going to come back and bite Adams hard sooner or later. The reality of the NHL is....your core players get long term deals, everyone else needs to be as cheap as possible. That's how you keep your core together. Term is probably the most dangerous thing to freely give out, much more so than dollars. The only real saving grace Adams has is the under 26 buyout rule does give you an escape hatch for 1/3rd of the contract value (like we did with Hodgson), still is a risky proposition. Locking secondary players. into a long term deals is nearly always the road to ruin.

I'm curious why you don't think Samuelsson is worth his extension when he is very clearly a major part of what works for this team.

Cozens will want more than the Boldy contract.

Cozens is a center who is on pace for 75 points this season.

Boldy is a winger who is on pace for 58 points this season.

Yep. Comp centers are guys like Suzuki, Norris, Stutzle, and probably Hischier. If they could get him at Hischier's percentage, they'd have him locked in at $7.4ishM AAV. That would be very good IMO.

 

[Chainshot]

7 is about as high as I want to go for Cozens.

Gotta use what other young centers with similar production are getting lately. Hischier seems like the best comp to me, even though he signed his extension before Hughes became Hughes as the Devils' #1 center.

 

[joshjull]

I'm curious why you don't think Samuelsson is worth his extension when he is very clearly a major part of what works for this team.



Yep. Comp centers are guys like Suzuki, Norris, Stutzle, and probably Hischier. If they could get him at Hischier's percentage, they'd have him locked in at $7.4ishM AAV. That would be very good IMO.

Have to keep the bullshit complaint machine humming along is my guess.

They’re cheap. But when they spend money they're dumb.

 

[Jim Bob]

7 is about as high as I want to go for Cozens.

If that is the case, then Cozens is unlikely to sign for 7 or 8 years.

 

[Beerz]

Gotta use what other young centers with similar production are getting lately. Hischier seems like the best comp to me, even though he signed his extension before Hughes became Hughes as the Devils' #1 center.

At some point GMs are going to have to make an adjustment and factor in the game is changing.. Point per game doesn't seem to mean the same thing as it once used to. Contracts are going to have to reflect that being that the cap hasn't been going up and I don't think will go up enough in future.

 

[Chainshot]

Have to keep the bullshit complaint machine humming along is my guess.

They’re cheap. But when they spend money they're dumb.

I laughed so hard at that I woke up the dog.

 

[joshjull]

Imagine watching Adams’ plan come alive these past 18 months with great success and think it’s just being easy/cheap.

Some people can see the forest through the trees…others obsess over thinking they saw Bigfoot hiding in the corner

It’s a narrative they simply can’t let go of. They’ve been wrong from the jump. I don‘t know if it’s because they didn’t understand the game plan originally and refuse to admit it. Or if they still don’t get it about where this has been going. It’s easier to just call them cheap.

Anyone paying attention knew they were going with youth. When you do that you get an inexpensive roster because many of your top guys haven’t been paid yet. We’re going to see that change over the next couple years. It already started with the Tage/Sammy deals. It will continue with the Dahlin/Cozens deals this coming offseason and others beyond.

 

[Beerz]

If that is the case, then Cozens is unlikely to sign for 7 or 8 years.

Maybe bridge is best route. I'm still not sold on Cozens being a 5v5 producer.

 

[Chainshot]

At some point GMs are going to have to make an adjustment and factor in the game is changing.. Point per game doesn't seem to mean the same thing as it once used to. Contracts are going to have to reflect that being that the cap hasn't been going up and I don't think will go up enough in future.

GM's have adapted in that they're trying to lock in core pieces instead of bridging them. That's why we see a slew of deals that pay for production but also potential in the last couple of years. And Cozens is more than just points as has been publicly appreciated by both the GM and coach.

Hischier's deal seems like the one to focus on and that was 8.9% of cap when signed at 21 years of age. By the current cap figure, that's 7.43M AAV.

 

[Chainshot]

Maybe bridge is best route. I'm still not sold on Cozens being a 5v5 producer.

There was some stuff that floated around last year about how his 5-on-5 shot generation was on par with Eichel at the same age. What was missing was PP production and right now, we've seen him bounce up to be third on the team in that regard and was a big reason for them correcting some early season issues by flipping with Mittelstadt on PP1. He's also outpacing his regular linemates at just raw 5-on-5 production by a fairly wide margin since his linemates have struggled on and off for weeks. He's still 34th in the league in ES points at 5-on-5 for centers, ironically tied with Suzuki who while on a worse team gets top line deployment and has had the better winger(s).

 

[TehDoak]

I'm curious why you don't think Samuelsson is worth his extension when he is very clearly a major part of what works for this team.

My issue with the Samuelsson extension had absolutely nothing to do with the player. It simply was a completely unneeded early commitment.

What is, realistically, Samuelsson's upside? Jonas Brodin? That's the player you HOPE he becomes.

In 2014, Brodin signed a six year, 25M deal off of his ELC. The cap was at 69M at the time. So it's 15% higher now. So it'd be a 6 year, 29M deal adjusted for todays cap.

We gave him a 7 year, 30M deal.

So, the saves we received by giving out a 7 year deal to the player before they eclipsed 60 games played in the NHL saved us...500k a year? What would he potentially do in the next year that would have him earn a higher deal than Brodin got? It's just stupid. Let Samuelsson come out and earn that deal over a full season instead of just having faith that he will.

This isn't a situation where cap space is going to be a precious commodity next season, or we're capped out and need to save a dollar and keep the player so you'd rather risk term that cash. It's just more risk than reward with no external pressures to make it worth the risk.

 

[Jim Bob]

Maybe bridge is best route. I'm still not sold on Cozens being a 5v5 producer.

I think his big step forward production-wise this season is a sign of good things to come. Especially as Quinn & JJP develop as NHLers.

I would have no issue with Cozens getting 8 years at $7.5-8M per.