Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

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With the news about the cap I somehow became more of a Kane believer.
Very few teams can pay him.
Hasn't their been chatter Kane will never play in Buffalo ? Saying that Cole Beasley just came back so who knows. That would be one heck of 3C, PP2 guy and money talks but I'm not sure he fits KA's plan.

Is Parayko even remotely available?

Trade freeze is coming up too, but as we keep hearing no one has room to make one (other than us) apparently.

Parayko vs Chychrun thoughts?
 
While I can understand the concern if Power starts averaging 25 minutes a night as a rookie, I don't get some people complaining about Power or Dahlin logging a couple of 28 minute games.

Chris Pronger was averaging over 30 minutes a game early in his career, and throughout his career regularly averaged 27+, Lidstrom used to average 28+ a night regularly. Suter had years over 29, Karlsson had years at 28+.

Doughty as a rookie averaged almost 24 minutes a game, he turned out pretty good. His career average is over 26 minutes. Yea he's not what he was in his prime, he's also 31 with a couple of cups and a lot of mileage on him.

Point is, if guys are playing too much Granato is gonna see it. Plenty of Dmen can handle big minutes, and have for a long time.
 
This is getting absurd. You’re trying to make sweeping assertions based on a sample size thats meaningless (first it was one game, then two games)

-Sammy and Joker do not play 24-26mins a night.
-But a dman like them playing more minutes than their “norm” from time to time is perfectly normal.

If you want to go on about the grind of a seasson you need a meaniful sample size. Well I used the entire season to date. There is nothing unusual about the mintues played by Dahlin, Sammy and Joker. Dahlin plays #1 dman minutes and the other two o play normal top 4 minutes. Nothing you’ve posted has proven otherwise.

Let me clarify, because you are mixing multiple posts in your replies and not understanding my messages while out of context.

With Power, the extra icetime tends to cause mental mistakes in young D that are working on positioning, communication, tracking, and their part within the team structure.

Power is a teenager that is dealing with learning a lot while carrying a substantial load for a team that the pressure is increasing due to the strings of losses. Looking at his icetime average does ignore the fact that he is probably playing too much for a player of his age and experience in a lot of the games. Here are some of his icetime totals from some games, I looked at half the season so far.

25:12
24:04
23:54
23:43
23:51
24:13
24:43
28:14
29:35
26:49
25:03

Now a lot of that time is PP time, which is substantially different than ES or PK time, so it is not as bad as it looks, but I have noticed that his mistakes lessened with his ice load, so it goes to suggest that the team would be better if they lightened his icetime a bit.

Dahlin is a great player, but he should not be logging huge minutes all season if they don't want to see him crash mid-season, which historically is common with players logging the types of minutes he has seen.

28:22
26:21
28:39
28:08
26:43
27:37
26:58
29:25
25:57
26:23
27:48
26:07
27:05

Looking at those numbers, in Buffalo's non-OT wins, Dahlin played less than 25 minutes in 8 of the 11. And he has not played more than 26 minutes in any of those wins all season. Small sample size, but it is not surprising the team results are better when the defensive load is more balanced.

As far as Samuelsson and Jokiharju, what I was implying was that there is no way they should be playing 24-26 minutes with huge penalty kill responsibilities in a specific game. Yes, that is a limited case, but still reflects the depth problem.

Jokiharju 23:59 TOI 5:09 PKTOI
Samueslsson 26:04 TOI 7:06 PKTOI

Anyone that doesn't realize there is a monumental difference between PK icetime and ES and PP icetime has never played competitive hockey.

What this all suggests is that this team has had major D depth issues this season. Looking at the season averages, it is easy to think that there is no problem, but with a few injuries, and looking at game specific numbers, it is clear that the team needed help.

Hopefully the massive defensive injury bug is past, and we won't see the heavy loads continue, as the icetime balance was actually great when everyone was healthy to start the season, but I responded to your seasonal averages post just to point out that we can't ignore that there have been icetime issues during this injury stretch.
 
While I can understand the concern if Power starts averaging 25 minutes a night as a rookie, I don't get some people complaining about Power or Dahlin logging a couple of 28 minute games.

Chris Pronger was averaging over 30 minutes a game early in his career, and throughout his career regularly averaged 27+, Lidstrom used to average 28+ a night regularly. Suter had years over 29, Karlsson had years at 28+.

Doughty as a rookie averaged almost 24 minutes a game, he turned out pretty good. His career average is over 26 minutes. Yea he's not what he was in his prime, he's also 31 with a couple of cups and a lot of mileage on him.

Point is, if guys are playing too much Granato is gonna see it. Plenty of Dmen can handle big minutes, and have for a long time.

Those years with Pronger in St Louis, the icetime was nuts, but he would often be on the ice with MacInnis for the entirity of their Powerplays, so his PP time was pretty crazy, he also typically did not do a lot of skating on the PP. He just would dish the puck to MacInnis, who would fire slap shot after slap shot until all the defenders were lying on the ice writhing in pain and only the goalie was left standing. :laugh:

Comparisons aside, this team does have better results when their D loads are more balanced. Hall of fame players have had different loads that they can maintain without seeing a drop-off in their games, but today's game is also very different in that there is a ton more skating than there has been in the last 25 years, so those numbers may not be equal.
 
Is Parayko even remotely available?
He's become one of the whipping boys in STL....not sure if he's actually available in the eyes of management....but he's certainly someone a large chunk of the fan base and media are ok moving on from.

Personally as a blues fan, I want to find a way to move krug instead....and probably 1 or 2 if not 3 of barbashev,RoR & Tarasenko(all ufa's)

and parlay some of those assets into a chycrun deal.....and then take advantage of the cap space in the offseason via UFA or trades for an impact fwd or two....hoping for horvat lol.,

But if parayko was seemingly available, i'd like to know what buffalo would be willing to move for him seeing as how in my opinion he's a perfect long term (next 3-5 years) fit next to power and can be the lead PK guy with sammy which saves 26's legs and injury risk a little bit and i know everybody talks about his contract, yes the term is rough, but the cap hit given the 4 mill rise of the cap and the projected explosion after next year makes his contract alot easier to manage. Hes honestly a mutant physically, i don't think his play will slip from where it's at now much if at all until closer to age 35+ and that's barring any crazy injury situation etc.....and by that time it might be easier to buy out or trade if needed, otherwise, he plays it out in a smaller role etc.... 6.5M isn't a horrible number on the cap, though i know as sabres fans with the incredible sweetheart contracts you have with TNT and Sammy it looks much worse hahah

I see it as upgrading a position to win now.....but also to win in the future, not just a rental type thing. I don't think the ask would be astronomical either, but it would certainly cost something......maybe mittelstadt, ostlund+? i don't know..... just spitballin
 
Let me clarify, because you are mixing multiple posts in your replies and not understanding my messages while out of context.

With Power, the extra icetime tends to cause mental mistakes in young D that are working on positioning, communication, tracking, and their part within the team structure.

Power is a teenager that is dealing with learning a lot while carrying a substantial load for a team that the pressure is increasing due to the strings of losses. Looking at his icetime average does ignore the fact that he is probably playing too much for a player of his age and experience in a lot of the games. Here are some of his icetime totals from some games, I looked at half the season so far.

25:12
24:04
23:54
23:43
23:51
24:13
24:43
28:14
29:35
26:49
25:03

Now a lot of that time is PP time, which is substantially different than ES or PK time, so it is not as bad as it looks, but I have noticed that his mistakes lessened with his ice load, so it goes to suggest that the team would be better if they lightened his icetime a bit.

Dahlin is a great player, but he should not be logging huge minutes all season if they don't want to see him crash mid-season, which historically is common with players logging the types of minutes he has seen.

28:22
26:21
28:39
28:08
26:43
27:37
26:58
29:25
25:57
26:23
27:48
26:07
27:05

Looking at those numbers, in Buffalo's non-OT wins, Dahlin played less than 25 minutes in 8 of the 11. And he has not played more than 26 minutes in any of those wins all season. Small sample size, but it is not surprising the team results are better when the defensive load is more balanced.

As far as Samuelsson and Jokiharju, what I was implying was that there is no way they should be playing 24-26 minutes with huge penalty kill responsibilities in a specific game. Yes, that is a limited case, but still reflects the depth problem.

Jokiharju 23:59 TOI 5:09 PKTOI
Samueslsson 26:04 TOI 7:06 PKTOI

Anyone that doesn't realize there is a monumental difference between PK icetime and ES and PP icetime has never played competitive hockey.

What this all suggests is that this team has had major D depth issues this season. Looking at the season averages, it is easy to think that there is no problem, but with a few injuries, and looking at game specific numbers, it is clear that the team needed help.

Hopefully the massive defensive injury bug is past, and we won't see the heavy loads continue, as the icetime balance was actually great when everyone was healthy to start the season, but I responded to your seasonal averages post just to point out that we can't ignore that there have been icetime issues during this injury stretch.
There could be a little correlation/causation issue on the Win/Loss part. Power does seem to get extra minutes with Dahlin when we are trailing. I'm not sure that any site has stats broken down by period, but it would be interesting to see if this is the case.
 
Hasn't their been chatter Kane will never play in Buffalo ? Saying that Cole Beasley just came back so who knows. That would be one heck of 3C, PP2 guy and money talks but I'm not sure he fits KA's plan.



Trade freeze is coming up too, but as we keep hearing no one has room to make one (other than us) apparently.

Parayko vs Chychrun thoughts?
Rather have parayko to play with power and bump joki down but if we can find a way to land both of them that would be the best d-core allowing us to roll 3 pairs but that is a pipe dream but possible if no one else could out bid us
 
Comparisons aside, this team does have better results when their D loads are more balanced.

Chicken/egg.

I feel like we're more balanced on D when we're winning -- not that we win because we're more balanced on D. When we're losing or close, ice time slants HEAVILY towards the top 4.
 
There could be a little correlation/causation issue on the Win/Loss part. Power does seem to get extra minutes with Dahlin when we are trailing. I'm not sure that any site has stats broken down by period, but it would be interesting to see if this is the case.

It is a good point, and would likely clarify some of the questions as to why there is so much discrepancies between games, but when watching the games, the difference in the jump in the step of the D in third periods when they have played with a balanced load vs heavy ice time is noticeable to me.

The win loss was only looking at Dahlin's ice time, but I think that it tends to go both ways, and that in wins, Granato tends to have Dahlin out on the ice just as much protecting leads as he does trying to generate game tying goals. And with a lot of the wins/losses being multiple game goals either way, I think the correlation would be less frequent.
 
There could be a little correlation/causation issue on the Win/Loss part. Power does seem to get extra minutes with Dahlin when we are trailing. I'm not sure that any site has stats broken down by period, but it would be interesting to see if this is the case.

I'm not aware of any site that breaks down things by period, but the NHL does provide that info in their official game reports.

1671069845722.png


For example, here's Power's raw shift chart from the last game:

1671069891788.png


That would lead me to believe that the raw data is available, and I believe it's publicly accessible if you're a database guru and know how to parse it out. I've never looked into it personally though.
 
Chicken/egg.

I feel like we're more balanced on D when we're winning -- not that we win because we're more balanced on D. When we're losing or close, ice time slants HEAVILY towards the top 4.
That could be true, especially when replacement players are in the lineup.

It is hard to gauge because they have not really had their top 6 healthy much, but looking at the start of the season, a 4-1 win and a 3-4 loss, the distribution was pretty consistent,

Dahlin 24-25
Samuelsson 19-20
Power 20-21
Jokiharju 20~
Bryson 12-13
Lyubushkin 12-15

Special team situations and injuries will always throw those numbers all over the map between games though.

I think lyubushkin missed a shift after a block and Dahlin got a little more ice time if I recall in the loss, which accounts for the biggest fluctuation between the games.
 
I'm not aware of any site that breaks down things by period, but the NHL does provide that info in their official game reports.

View attachment 621661

For example, here's Power's raw shift chart from the last game:

View attachment 621662

That would lead me to believe that the raw data is available, and I believe it's publicly accessible if you're a database guru and know how to parse it out. I've never looked into it personally though.
That looks like a lot of work, but in the name of science, I think JC17 is up to the task ;)

I would totally do it, but I broke my abacus earlier...
 
What would be a realistic offer for Chychrun and goalie Karel Vejmelka from Arizona?

That would be a major upgrade on the backend and between the pipes.
 
What would be a realistic offer for Chychrun and goalie Karel Vejmelka from Arizona?

That would be a major upgrade on the backend and between the pipes.
1. Lottery protected 23’ 1st
2. One of Ostlund/Kulich/Rosen
3. One of Mitts/Olofsson
4. One of 2nd/3rd/lesser prospect
 
Use the 2024 1st to get a roster defensemen; they shouldn't touch the 2023 unless it becomes apparent they're making the playoffs.
 
He's become one of the whipping boys in STL....not sure if he's actually available in the eyes of management....but he's certainly someone a large chunk of the fan base and media are ok moving on from.

Personally as a blues fan, I want to find a way to move krug instead....and probably 1 or 2 if not 3 of barbashev,RoR & Tarasenko(all ufa's)

and parlay some of those assets into a chycrun deal.....and then take advantage of the cap space in the offseason via UFA or trades for an impact fwd or two....hoping for horvat lol.,

But if parayko was seemingly available, i'd like to know what buffalo would be willing to move for him seeing as how in my opinion he's a perfect long term (next 3-5 years) fit next to power and can be the lead PK guy with sammy which saves 26's legs and injury risk a little bit and i know everybody talks about his contract, yes the term is rough, but the cap hit given the 4 mill rise of the cap and the projected explosion after next year makes his contract alot easier to manage. Hes honestly a mutant physically, i don't think his play will slip from where it's at now much if at all until closer to age 35+ and that's barring any crazy injury situation etc.....and by that time it might be easier to buy out or trade if needed, otherwise, he plays it out in a smaller role etc.... 6.5M isn't a horrible number on the cap, though i know as sabres fans with the incredible sweetheart contracts you have with TNT and Sammy it looks much worse hahah

I see it as upgrading a position to win now.....but also to win in the future, not just a rental type thing. I don't think the ask would be astronomical either, but it would certainly cost something......maybe mittelstadt, ostlund+? i don't know..... just spitballin
What’s your price
 
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Also, while it isn't necessarily how it turns out but I have this thought that if they trade Rosen, it winds up being the "new" Filip Forsberg deal.
 
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