Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

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impaaaaaact

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Lou would be adding a first round pick + to swap Giroux for Pageau and in the process pick up a better player but one who is already 36 years old.

No thanks.
It's sort of a kill two birds with one stone move. Pageau (or palmier) need to go before Dobson's next contract can get signed anyway and it will cost something to move them no matter what due to our cap situation. We're basically locked into going all out the next two years, I wouldn't expect to not move the picks.
 
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seafoam

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It's sort of a kill two birds with one stone move. Pageau (or palmier) need to go before Dobson's next contract can get signed anyway and it will cost something to move them no matter what due to our cap situation. We're basically locked into going all out the next two years, I wouldn't expect to not move the picks.
I'd rather plus on a 1st to Pageau or Palmieri in order to receive back a young, underperforming (albeit cheap) player than 36 year old Giroux (who willingly signed in Ottawa...). Give me someone on the last year on the ELC or someone in the front half of a cheap bridge deal.
 

Throttle

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Lou would be adding a first round pick + to swap Giroux for Pageau and in the process pick up a better player but one who is already 36 years old.

No thanks.
But who is that Arnott player? I don't see anyone that is around 2M. Again, I go to the fact that I don't see Lou moving the core guys - Parms, Pageau, Clutter or Martin. For a deal for an impact player you need to move 1 or 2 of them.
It would have to be a left field move in that sense. This ‘core’ has shown it doesn’t have it across two coaches. Time to rock the boat with a move or moves.

The funny thing is ‘adding’ to this team doesn’t push out the problem, to me the issue is more the top 4-7 vs the bottom 6. So, a lateral move is really where the pop should come from.

I'd rather plus on a 1st to Pageau or Palmieri in order to receive back a young, underperforming (albeit cheap) player than 36 year old Giroux (who willingly signed in Ottawa...). Give me someone on the last year on the ELC or someone in the front half of a cheap bridge deal.
Giroux signed on believing they were trending up…they are not and he’s getting older.
 

Throttle

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Also, I would watch this mutual contract termination surge that is going on. The cap crunch ongoing, too many long term deals, some guys not getting opportunities or older guys facing diminished ice time/competitiveness, we may be seeing more of this where some guys/teams want to get out of their deals vs wallow in the AHL for a year or two.
 

LeapOnOver

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Is it possible that Lou knows this is his last job and he's "all in" on this team not because he should be, but rather because at his age how could he be anything else?
It's more possible that he's just following the vision of the owner. No owner is going to tell a GM not to go all-in after deep playoff runs and a new arena. When you blame Lou, you are blaming the owners too. We don't own the team. We are just fans. You need to do more watching and less lamenting. It's an entertainment product, not cold fusion.
 
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Glorydays22

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It would have to be a left field move in that sense. This ‘core’ has shown it doesn’t have it across two coaches. Time to rock the boat with a move or moves.

The funny thing is ‘adding’ to this team doesn’t push out the problem, to me the issue is more the top 4-7 vs the bottom 6. So, a lateral move is really where the pop should come from.


Giroux signed on believing they were trending up…they are not and he’s getting older.

I hope you are right. I would love to break and shake up this core.
 
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Throttle

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I hope you are right. I would love to break and shake up this core.
I hope I am too! No idea, but looking at things a bit differently vs same old, same old should be refreshing too. I just can’t see Lou giving more time for things to come together with so much evidence, it’s unlikely too.

My initial thought of Lou adding depth on D, like an Eric Johnson, seems like a fail, now that the Isles have 100 D men…
 

Glory Days

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I hope I am too! No idea, but looking at things a bit differently vs same old, same old should be refreshing too. I just can’t see Lou giving more time for things to come together with so much evidence, it’s unlikely too.

My initial thought of Lou adding depth on D, like an Eric Johnson, seems like a fail, now that the Isles have 100 D men…
Assuming the rumors of Roy getting a 3 year contract are true there might be 2 paths forward. For this year Lou may make a small move and hope for the new coach bump. After this season there could more significant moves with Lou making moves with Roy’s input.
 

Throttle

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Assuming the rumors of Roy getting a 3 year contract are true there might be 2 paths forward. For this year Lou may make a small move and hope for the new coach bump. After this season there could more significant moves with Lou making moves with Roy’s input.
Very possible all around.
 

IslesNorway

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Assuming the rumors of Roy getting a 3 year contract are true there might be 2 paths forward. For this year Lou may make a small move and hope for the new coach bump. After this season there could more significant moves with Lou making moves with Roy’s input.
That is a likely scenario, except that making serious moves is bloody hard with our contract situation. If anything, all the UFAs must be gone after the season or at the deadline. No extensions at all or at any cost. Then work hard at moving Palmieri but no team is gonna take our bad contracts and give us any value, so making moves will be very hard.

I'd actually look to buy out Engvall and possibly Mayfield, too just to free up some space so they can have fresh start of sorts, like they should have doen before the season.
 

LeapOnOver

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That is a likely scenario, except that making serious moves is bloody hard with our contract situation. If anything, all the UFAs must be gone after the season or at the deadline. No extensions at all or at any cost. Then work hard at moving Palmieri but no team is gonna take our bad contracts and give us any value, so making moves will be very hard.

I'd actually look to buy out Engvall and possibly Mayfield, too just to free up some space so they can have fresh start of sorts, like they should have doen before the season.
Huh? I get you would have liked to have never signed those contracts, but you are living in fantasy land if you think they are going to be bought out after year one. And the way you worded the sentence is like they should have been bought out during the offseason, when I'm guessing you meant never signed to new deals. I get the complaining, but proposing things that have never been done (except in the case of disciplinary things) is pretty silly and just looks like old man yelling at clouds syndrome. Things didn't go your way. Suggest viable fixes....
 
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MJF

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I enjoy Patrick Roy's press conferences, not because he's entertaining, but because he elaborates on his answers (in coach speak) and there is a lot to be picked up from that.

Yesterday's after practice presser Roy's recurring theme was that the team is improving analytically (he uses SportsLogic as his source) but we are not winning as much as we could be. He lays that on the team being poor at fundamentals and with their sticks. This is something that we were always at our best at with Trotz behind the bench but got away from the last 2 years with Lambert as coach. So many nights I've said we are just not good at the little things, not winning the 50/50 pucks along the boards, and not having good sticks, that is sticks down on the ice to deflect a pass or take away a passing lane. The only thing we were using our sticks for was to restrain an opponent because he got a step and that usually resulted in a penalty.

If those things are still an issue for the players, then I think the quick fix Roy was supposed to be for the team will take a little bit longer. It can work but these things have to be drilled on every practice, and with only 30 games left there just may not be enough time left to get it done.

This really contrasts the difference between Lambert and Roy. Preparation and attention to detail. It's a shame Roy wasn't brought in a few weeks earlier.
 

SI

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That is a likely scenario, except that making serious moves is bloody hard with our contract situation. If anything, all the UFAs must be gone after the season or at the deadline. No extensions at all or at any cost. Then work hard at moving Palmieri but no team is gonna take our bad contracts and give us any value, so making moves will be very hard.

I'd actually look to buy out Engvall and possibly Mayfield, too just to free up some space so they can have fresh start of sorts, like they should have doen before the season.
Buying them out makes no sense -
The buyout hit plus the replacement of that player is little to no gain. Those players are still effective.
 

SI

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With all this talk about a hockey trade being possible, which is what most teams are looking to do, unfortunately, the cap hits and unique needs for each team make movement difficult. The only 2 candidates I see are Palmieri and Pageau and with JGP, I find that highly unlikely. I can see Palmieri, who is on 50-point pace, being way easier to move when he has 1 year at 5m left this offseason.

The Cap makes it very, very difficult for Lou to make moves at the TDL. Before that can happen, the first thing is that this team needs to go on a run - NOW - they have 10 games before the TDL. They need to go at least 7-3 and beat the Rangers in the Stadium Series, which I believe is a statement game. If they do that here are 2 trades they can make.
  1. Tarasenko @ 50% - Lou can send the 2024 2nd-round pick and a prospect/player. The 2.5m hit will be difficult to fit but not impossible. Right now, they are at 84.3 with Bortuzzo on LTIR, Minus Aho's .825 and Wahlstrom's .875 doesn't quite get them there, but adding a third team to take on some of the contracts is possible.
  2. Vatrano (with 1m retention) - Trading the 2024 1st for Vatrano is risky especially if that 1st lands in the teens, but the fact that he is signed for one more season AND if Anaheim retained a small portion of his cap hit, it makes it more enticing. Here is the proposal for Vatrano- 2024 1st, Bolduc, and Wahlstrom for Vatrano @2.65 AAV (1m retention). This gets them under the cap except it would be with a 21-man roster, but maybe someone magically lands on LTIR.
These are just some of the cap gymnastics that would need to happen - retention, third team, magic LTIR use, and/or limiting the roster #

It just maybe more prudent to stand pat at TDL - enter the draft with picks and the potential to make moves then, i.e, moving the 2024 1st for Mittelstadt and moving Palmieri for a pick OR just making the pick and addressing other needs via trade or free agency.
 
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impaaaaaact

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With all this talk about a hockey trade being possible, which is what most teams are looking to do, unfortunately, the cap hits and unique needs for each team make movement difficult. The only 2 candidates I see are Palmieri and Pageau and with JGP, I find that highly unlikely. I can see Palmieri, who is on 50-point pace, being way easier to move when he has 1 year at 5m left this offseason.

The Cap makes it very, very difficult for Lou to make moves at the TDL. Before that can happen, the first thing is that this team needs to go on a run - NOW - they have 10 games before the TDL. They need to go at least 7-3 and beat the Rangers in the Stadium Series, which I believe is a statement game. If they do that here are 2 trades they can make.
  1. Tarasenko @ 50% - Lou can send the 2024 2nd-round pick and a prospect/player. The 2.5m hit will be difficult to fit but not impossible. Right now, they are at 84.3 with Bortuzzo on LTIR, Minus Aho's .825 and Wahlstrom's .875 doesn't quite get them there, but adding a third team to take on some of the contracts is possible.
  2. Vatrano (with 1m retention) - Trading the 2024 1st for Vatrano is risky especially if that 1st lands in the teens, but the fact that he is signed for one more season AND if Anaheim retained a small portion of his cap hit, it makes it more enticing. Here is the proposal for Vatrano- 2024 1st, Bolduc, and Wahlstrom for Vatrano @2.65 AAV (1m retention). This gets them under the cap except it would be with a 21-man roster, but maybe someone magically lands on LTIR.
These are just some of the cap gymnastics that would need to happen - retention, third team, magic LTIR use, and/or limiting the roster #

It just maybe more prudent to stand pat at TDL - enter the draft with picks and the potential to make moves then, i.e, moving the 2024 1st for Mittelstadt and moving Palmieri for a pick OR just making the pick and addressing other needs via trade or free agency.
Want to point out that Pelech played less than Reilly and Aho last game. Two straight games at around 17:30, one of them with Romanov only playing 13 mins (so minutes were available). If we see a third straight game at around 17ish minutes it might tell us that his strengths might not line up with what Roy is preaching. Or maybe fresh eyes are seeing what a lot of us have pointed out - he hasn't been the same for a couple of years now. Roy also seems to have no problem playing Reilly as a 4, even playing him for 22 minutes against Toronto.

He would have to waive, but I could see him going in a "hockey trade". Part of a Middlestadt deal maybe, where he ends up right across the border from home in Toronto.
 
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Throttle

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Vatrano seems like the flavor of the month around here. He’s not a player you trade a first round pick for - considering all the griping about how Lou uses first, this would be the worst use of it to date.

Tarasenko didn’t do much for NYR last year, so take that as buyer beware and no one wanted him in the summer, he signed in lowly OTT aka Klingberg style.
 

periferal

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It's more possible that he's just following the vision of the owner. No owner is going to tell a GM not to go all-in after deep playoff runs and a new arena. When you blame Lou, you are blaming the owners too. We don't own the team. We are just fans. You need to do more watching and less lamenting. It's an entertainment product, not cold fusion.

Believe me I do more watching then you know. Combine that with my intense desire to see this team win a Cup and it's not just entertainment to me. I doubt it's just entertainment for most of the posters anywhere on these boards. Most people who see entertainment (sports, concerts, broadway, etc) just go and see it and then focus back on life. They rarely go online and talk about it with strangers over a period of time unless it is more than just entertainment to them.

As for the owners..Malkin is obviously a good businessman, but I think if not for Ledecky he probably doesn't own the Islanders. He's not really a hockey guy. He probably knows how to hire good/great people to get the job done that he wants. So that whole "NHL tour" that Ledecky did seeing all the arenas/meeting with other executives back when they first bought the team led them to realize that snow needs to go and someone much more competent needs to be in charge. That led them to Lou, but not for a second should we believe that Malkin is micromanaging Lou, and that the moves Lou makes are Malkin's idea. He wants to make money and the mall being built right now will enable him to make a lot of it. I assume he also wants the Isles to win, but he's left it up to Lou to do that. I wonder if Malkin knows what to do next when many of the players in the lineup continue to age and fade and the team starts to do the same...
 

SI

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Want to point out that Pelech played less than Reilly and Aho last game. Two straight games at around 17:30, one of them with Romanov only playing 13 mins (so minutes were available). If we see a third straight game at around 17ish minutes it might tell us that his strengths might not line up with what Roy is preaching. Or maybe fresh eyes are seeing what a lot of us have pointed out - he hasn't been the same for a couple of years now. Roy also seems to have no problem playing Reilly as a 4, even playing him for 22 minutes against Toronto.

He would have to waive, but I could see him going in a "hockey trade". Part of a Middlestadt deal maybe, where he ends up right across the border from home in Toronto.
I think the limited minutes may just have to do with him getting healthy versus anything less - I could be wrong. IMO, Trading Pelech would not be a good idea without a replacement... Reilly is not that replacement. Buffalo needs help on the RH side of the blue line and would be looking for either that or a goalie.
 

impaaaaaact

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I think the limited minutes may just have to do with him getting healthy versus anything less - I could be wrong. IMO, Trading Pelech would not be a good idea without a replacement... Reilly is not that replacement. Buffalo needs help on the RH side of the blue line and would be looking for either that or a goalie.
We might be in that perfect spot where Pelech has the reputation from the playoff runs but teams may not have caught on that the injuries have started to take a toll. Leafs fan offering Marner for Pelech + Palmieri + 1st and Edmonton fan on main board saying they would "cream their pants" for him
 
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dlawong

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If you are suggesting trading Pelech at all, Edmonton may be perfect for him. He played with McDavid in junior and they could be friends. Not sure which Oiler player coming back will help Isles that much though. Players with bad recent injuries may play underwhelming but given more time for full recovery and hard work in the summer can help get back to form. He does have a really good hockey IQ and a very good stick check. I would say another team will have to be involved to make trade work for Isles, maybe getting a potential young player who may be able to score and skate well - see if Winnipeg can be involved in a 3-way deal.
 

JPIsles18

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Part of the problem with the cap structure is that for the $6.5 they spent on Mayfield and Engvall they could have gotten an actual impact player with it.
This is a concept Lou has always struggled with. In a vacuum, these players are likely getting paid market value (term aside). Engvall would be an excellent 3rd line player. Mayfield, is an above average 3rd pair dman. This issue with a Lou team has always been not understanding what the team needs. The team did not need another 3rd line player, or a 3rd pair dman. Now I did not mind these two signings at the time. And to an extent, I still don't mind them. They are playing these players more than they should in roles that they don't belong in. Engvall is not a top 6 player. He just does not have the hockey IQ for such a role. Mayfield was playing top 4 minutes because of injuries.

The team is riddled with players that don't belong at the top of the lineup. Lee is a middle 9 winger making 7 mil. Pageau is a 4th line center making 5 mil. Martin and Clutterbuck are no longer NHL players.

The Isles may have a unique opportunity here to unload Pageau at the deadline. There is a run at centers. Someone is bound to overvalue him just because he's a center and has an unearned reputation of being a good defensive forward. Lou made a mistake by giving him a modified NTC, but there may be a chance to move him now. There is no reason to ever give a bottom 6 forward that type of contract especially when you're overpaying him. I hope Lou does.
 
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Top Corner

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I posted this in the game time thread suggesting Lou‘s methodology of a todays NHL team is flawed and the fan base is going to feel it for years when he leaves. Many here are correct that he’s stacked his team with 3 and 4th line players willing to do the dirty work but he’s left the skill department somewhat empty .
 

beach

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I think the outdoor game will determine Lou's fate. If the Isles lose, especially if lopsided, I think Malkin fires him after the season.
 
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