Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[SI]

That funny, because I think if you look at "what's in front of you," there are questions if hiring Roy was solely Lou's move since it very unlike him to hire someone this fiery who also will question the front office moves (as he did in Colorado). We'll never know for sure, but if at some point in the future (probably after Lou is gone) it came out that Malkin/Collins wanted Roy here I wouldn't be surprised at all.

And actually the team has been the "most competitive it's been since 1993" when Trotz was here. Now that he's gone this team is a fringe playoff team that is honestly not much better than when snow was here.

yet there is this "Lou is god and can do no wrong" cult out there when the fact that this team is average right now and has little in the way of cap space/moves to make to get to elite in the short term...And those facts is right in front of all fans to see.

You are reaching again - there IS nothing to suggest that owners are making any decisions on hockey OPS. Lou is president and GM and HE is calling the SHOTS. Roy is his hire, so was Lambert, and so was Trotz.

And what is funny, if my memory serves me right - you shouting at the high heavens that the Trotzs' teams were also fringe playoff teams - even the first conference final run was a result of the bubble. The sky is always falling!

 

[doublechili]

Just to be clear...You seriously believe that Malkin (with/without Collins' input) would NEVER fire Lou - Even if he was 95 and the team didn't make the playoffs for 5+ years in a row (and that was affecting ticket sales/finances)?

Nope, he wouldn't fire him. Now, if Lou also drove a bus full of orphans off the edge of a cliff, and then jumped out the door in a wingsuit to save himself, he'd probably get canned.

 

[Throttle]

Tommy Fitz in NJ just re-upped on a mutli-year extension AND promoted to President of Hockey Ops.

He doesn’t have any GM of the Year awards with NJ as their GM.

And his contract terms weren’t released…uh-oh.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Tommy Fitz in NJ just re-upped on a mutli-year extension AND promoted to President of Hockey Ops.

He doesn’t have any GM of the Year awards with NJ as their GM.

And his contract terms weren’t released…uh-oh.

Does Fitzgerald have a son he can hire as assistant GM?

 

[periferal]

You are reaching again - there IS nothing to suggest that owners are making any decisions on hockey OPS. Lou is president and GM and HE is calling the SHOTS. Roy is his hire, so was Lambert, and so was Trotz.

And what is funny, if my memory serves me right - you shouting at the high heavens that the Trotzs' teams were also fringe playoff teams - even the first conference final run was a result of the bubble. The sky is always falling!

What a nice-sounding post. It's concise, well written, and certainly will get those foaming at the mouth all riled up....But it's simply incorrect.

I will say what I've said for years now...This roster needs more talent (which I said all along). Trotz was the best coach we could've possibly hired and absolutely my dream coach (which I said all along) and had them overachieving (which I said all along), but are you going to sit there and tell me that we couldn't have used more scoring talent when we lost to the Lightning in game 7 a few years ago 1-0...?

That is my contention - That the team needs more talent to win it all (no matter who is coaching), and that is Lou's responsibility...And to me he's failed at it (which I said all along). I liked the Horvat trade, but he needs more like that where he trades multiple top assets as opposed to just trading 1sts for middle-6 talent (which I said all along).

Now Lambert was terrible (which I said all along - And also Lou's responsibility) and Roy is going to be somewhere between he and Trotz, but let's be honest...This team isn't coming near a Cup this year (which I said all along). I hope I'm wrong (and root for them every game they play), but you can write this down and fact check me this spring.

You continue to say that this team is in great shape because they have guys like Dobson, Horvat, Barzal, Sorokin, etc and I respect that you're an optimist, but there's much more needed before a team wins a championship. I'm just wondering...If this team doesn't get near a Cup this year, next year, the year after...How long will you go before you start questioning someone from the coach on up in the front office?

You know what...? The "sky was always falling"when wang owned this team (which I said all along), as there was literally zero hope of ever winning. I like Malkin, Lou, Trotz, and Roy infinitely more than anyone under wang (which I said all along), we are run like a professional franchise again (which I said all along), and now we can finally have hope that we can win it all (which I said all along).

So I do have hope with Malkin, but I'm not going to stick my head in the sand like some fans and think that Lou, while a decent GM, is a god. He can do better and needs to do better, specifically in terms of roster construction, if we're going to get to Cup contention. To me so far he has not and if I'm harsh in my criticism of him it's because getting the Isles a Cup in my lifetime is literally a bucket list item for me. Sports shouldn't matter to me that much, but for whatever reason it does.

You're on the of the best posters on here so we can disagree, but would be nice if you truly digested what I'm saying here.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

Trade Nelson

 

[12Dog]

Mayfield is a better d-man when Pulock and Pelech are in the lineup. He’s a player that once he asked to do too much, he gets exposed.

Well, clearly playing less minutes limits how many turnovers he can commit so yes he’s a better player when better players play more minutes than he does
My question stands
Would Lou let Roy sit Mayfield?

 

[seafoam]

I think they need a left shot D, Chychrun fits the bill, but at what cost?

I simply can't trust Pelech's health at this point (not saying it's his fault), but he hasn't been Adam Pelech since the year BEFORE Trotz was fired, that's 2+ seasons.

 

[SI]

What a nice-sounding post. It's concise, well written, and certainly will get those foaming at the mouth all riled up....But it's simply incorrect.

I will say what I've said for years now...This roster needs more talent (which I said all along). Trotz was the best coach we could've possibly hired and absolutely my dream coach (which I said all along) and had them overachieving (which I said all along), but are you going to sit there and tell me that we couldn't have used more scoring talent when we lost to the Lightning in game 7 a few years ago 1-0...?

That is my contention - That the team needs more talent to win it all (no matter who is coaching), and that is Lou's responsibility...And to me he's failed at it (which I said all along). I liked the Horvat trade, but he needs more like that where he trades multiple top assets as opposed to just trading 1sts for middle-6 talent (which I said all along).

Now Lambert was terrible (which I said all along - And also Lou's responsibility) and Roy is going to be somewhere between he and Trotz, but let's be honest...This team isn't coming near a Cup this year (which I said all along). I hope I'm wrong (and root for them every game they play), but you can write this down and fact check me this spring.

You continue to say that this team is in great shape because they have guys like Dobson, Horvat, Barzal, Sorokin, etc and I respect that you're an optimist, but there's much more needed before a team wins a championship. I'm just wondering...If this team doesn't get near a Cup this year, next year, the year after...How long will you go before you start questioning someone from the coach on up in the front office?

You know what...? The "sky was always falling"when wang owned this team (which I said all along), as there was literally zero hope of ever winning. I like Malkin, Lou, Trotz, and Roy infinitely more than anyone under wang (which I said all along), we are run like a professional franchise again (which I said all along), and now we can finally have hope that we can win it all (which I said all along).

So I do have hope with Malkin, but I'm not going to stick my head in the sand like some fans and think that Lou, while a decent GM, is a god. He can do better and needs to do better, specifically in terms of roster construction, if we're going to get to Cup contention. To me so far he has not and if I'm harsh in my criticism of him it's because getting the Isles a Cup in my lifetime is literally a bucket list item for me. Sports shouldn't matter to me that much, but for whatever reason it does.

You're on the of the best posters on here so we can disagree, but would be nice if you truly digested what I'm saying here.

Yes, I understand what you are saying - in this post, but this wasn't the discussion.

IMO, Lou is running the ship, these are his decisions and no one else's. I also believe he has job security. Can that change? Absolutely, if they miss the playoffs this year and next and the one after that - then sure, but IMO, we are not there.

When I write this - I am not saying he's a GOD.

To the bolded - YES, I believe we are in good shape... all 4 of those players are all-star caliber players and they are all at great ages too, so I stick by that.

 

[ekill08x]

Trade Nelson

That’s gunna hurt like crazy but him and Pageau are the only ones that will net us anything. It’s time to rebuild this team. If they think they are close they are wrong.

 

[The Real JT]

Trade Nelson

There’s so much parity in the bubble team crowd. Along with the 3 point games, it’ll be hard to fall completely out of the playoff race by the TDL even though we’re trending that way right now.

In the absence of a collapse leaving us well out of the race, I don’t see Nelson going anywhere this season. In the offseason, that’s anyone’s guess.

 

[Nassau Revisited]

Trade Nelson

It is becoming very obvious that he should be moved to help with the future. Signing a 34 year old Nelson next season or losing him for nothing are both very bad options

That’s gunna hurt like crazy but him and Pageau are the only ones that will net us anything. It’s time to rebuild this team. If they think they are close they are wrong.

Pageau probably only has value if we retain

 

[Osakahaus]

I think they need a left shot D, Chychrun fits the bill, but at what cost?

I simply can't trust Pelech's health at this point (not saying it's his fault), but he hasn't been Adam Pelech since the year BEFORE Trotz was fired, that's 2+ seasons.

Pelech is done. This is a career ender. What a damn shame.

 

[Nassau Revisited]

Pelech is done. This is a career ender. What a damn shame.

I think that is a little extreme but I don’t think he will ever be the same after all these injuries. Settles in as a 4-6 guy on a forever contract

 

[Osakahaus]

I think that is a little extreme but I don’t think he will ever be the same after all these injuries. Settles in as a 4-6 guy on a forever contract

Which sucks. I can't even feel upset. The dude has just taken such a brutal toll from injuries. we'll never see this man playing 82 games again at all.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Which sucks. I can't even feel upset. The dude has just taken such a brutal toll from injuries. we'll never see this man playing 82 games again at all.

There is no way he was even halfway recovered from that wrist injury.

 

[MJF]

I think they need a left shot D, Chychrun fits the bill, but at what cost?

I simply can't trust Pelech's health at this point (not saying it's his fault), but he hasn't been Adam Pelech since the year BEFORE Trotz was fired, that's 2+ seasons.

I agree on Pelech, and before Pulock got hurt last month you could have said the same thing about him this season, as he had a poor start too.

I think we have to reassess the D depth we have on hand.

 

[ekill08x]

To the bolded - YES, I believe we are in good shape... all 4 of those players are all-star caliber players and they are all at great ages too, so I stick by that.

How are we in great shape if we don’t have the flexibility or assets to build around them?

 

[saintunspecified]

There’s so much parity in the bubble team crowd. Along with the 3 point games, it’ll be hard to fall completely out of the playoff race by the TDL even though we’re trending that way right now.

In the absence of a collapse leaving us well out of the race, I don’t see Nelson going anywhere this season. In the offseason, that’s anyone’s guess.

I think decision time is coming up. I don't know how the Roy hiring fits in, but I think there are teams that Nelson could be a difference maker for *this* year. I don't see the point waiting if it looks like the health situation isn't turning around. Because it's not simply going to get better if it doesn't. NYI are a one-line, one pairing team at the moment. I don't see that changing.

 

[Zeeker]

How are we in great shape if we don’t have the flexibility or assets to build around them?

We’re in great shape because he wants us to be in great shape. Just like he has doubts about Vancouver because he doesn’t want them to succeed.

 

[The Real JT]

I think decision time is coming up. I don't know how the Roy hiring fits in, but I think there are teams that Nelson could be a difference maker for *this* year. I don't see the point waiting if it looks like the health situation isn't turning around. Because it's not simply going to get better if it doesn't. NYI are a one-line, one pairing team at the moment. I don't see that changing.

I agree with you and I felt the same way this past offseason. However with Lou’s signings he clearly was not ready for a retool.

As I suggested, he still won’t consider it unless we’re clearly out of the race. That’s hard to do though we’re certainly playing our way into that scenario.

One last thing on Nelson. He’s far more valuable at this year’s TDL than in the offseason or in a year from now. Waiting also risks the chance of him getting injured or declining which doesn’t seem likely but who knows?

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

I think that is a little extreme but I don’t think he will ever be the same after all these injuries. Settles in as a 4-6 guy on a forever contract

We'll see. He hasn't been good this year, and that was before last night's brutal hit.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

That’s gunna hurt like crazy but him and Pageau are the only ones that will net us anything. It’s time to rebuild this team. If they think they are close they are wrong.

Why would anyone want JG Pageau? Bad player on a bad contract. He has no trade value.

The only realistically available trade piece we have that other teams would value is Brock Nelson.

 

[Nassau Revisited]

I agree with you and I felt the same way this past offseason. However with Lou’s signings he clearly was not ready for a retool.

As I suggested, he still won’t consider it unless we’re clearly out of the race. That’s hard to do though we’re certainly playing our way into that scenario.

One last thing on Nelson. He’s far more valuable at this year’s TDL than in the offseason or in a year from now. Waiting also risks the chance of him getting injured or declining which doesn’t seem likely but who knows?

Trading Nelson stings because we have no prospects but one way to get prospects is to trade assets when they have high value. I agree that trading Nelson before this years deadline will be the best value we can get for him

 

[SI]

How are we in great shape if we don’t have the flexibility or assets to build around them?

If you are referring to the Cap - it is rising and contracts are more moavable this summer but can this team sign key free agents is another question.