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Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

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Glory Days said:
Of course not…

But when the Isles aren’t getting it done why not give him a chance. Could Ish be much worse than Engvall?
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I agree with you on Ishakov though I’m not optimistic regarding his potential in the NHL. The downside of giving him some games here is that if he flops then his trade value will evaporate.

As for your last question: Yes he could be worse.
 
SI said:
Also, Engvall and Mayfield are not playing themselves to buyout scenario. If the contract was 4 years long - no one would be discussing these contracts negatively. YOU just don’t like the contract and basically want to undo it.
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Of course I don't like their contracts. I didn't like them the day they signed. These are not the type of players you commit long term to. Mayfield, 31 when he signed, will age the same way Lee is aging, with a rapid decline to his game due to their physical nature. Engvall is an inconsequential forward who will have little-to-no impact on a team.
 
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MJF said:
Of course I don't like their contracts. I didn't like them the day they signed. These are not the type of players you commit long term to. Mayfield, 31 when he signed, will age the same way Lee is aging, with a rapid decline to his game due to their physical nature. Engvall is an inconsequential forward who will have little-to-no impact on a team.
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I’ll add that Engvall is soft. That’s exactly what you don’t want in the playoffs.
 
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SI said:
Also, Engvall and Mayfield are not playing themselves to buyout scenario. If the contract was 4 years long - no one would be discussing these contracts negatively.
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If the contracts weren’t as bad, they wouldn’t be discussed as negatively?
 
Glory Days said:
Of course not…

But when the Isles aren’t getting it done why not give him a chance. Could Ish be much worse than Engvall?
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Yes...He could.

And despite the lack of scoring recently, forward is literally the least of our problems. The coaching, the defense (lack of talent/injuries), Sorokin's subpar year and all much bigger concerns. You fix those 3 things and I promise the forwards will be better.
 
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The Real JT said:
I agree with you on Ishakov though I’m not optimistic regarding his potential in the NHL. The downside of giving him some games here is that if he flops then his trade value will evaporate.
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Ishakov has trade value?

And if he does...

  1. Don't you think that most teams know what he projects to be?
  2. Do you really trust the coaches/GM that have been handling Wahlstrom to maximize a player/their trade value?
  3. Lou doesn't seem to give up on any players anyway (unless he's forced to like Toews).
 
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periferal said:
Ishakov has trade value?

And if he does...

  1. Don't you think that most teams know what he projects to be?
  2. Do you really trust the coaches/GM that have been handling Wahlstrom to maximize a player/their trade value?
  3. Lou doesn't seem to give up on any players anyway (unless he's forced to like Toews).
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I regretfully have to agree with you on all of your points.

I didn’t mean to imply that Ishakov has significant trade value. At this point though he’s probably worth around a third round pick and would be a throw in as part of a bigger trade. A trade, that I hope Lou doesn’t desperately make.
 
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The Real JT said:
I agree with you on Ishakov though I’m not optimistic regarding his potential in the NHL. The downside of giving him some games here is that if he flops then his trade value will evaporate.
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Shouldn't be a worry - a 23 y/o AHL player who is my size doesn't have any value until they can show something in the NHL.
 
periferal said:
Ishakov has trade value?

And if he does...

  1. Don't you think that most teams know what he projects to be?
  2. Do you really trust the coaches/GM that have been handling Wahlstrom to maximize a player/their trade value?
  3. Lou doesn't seem to give up on any players anyway (unless he's forced to like Toews).
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A little disagreement . . . the 6 below were not forced to be given up, they were normal trade pieces and Raty is still a possible impact player

Raty
Durandeau
Burroughs
Greer
Jobst
Quenneville

Small fun fact: Pageau trade had the 3rd being conditional on winning the Cup, but since we didn't give it up, that was the pick we used for Quinn Finley.

The two players Ottawa picked are Ridley Grieg (28th overall in 2020-small impact so far), and Ronnie Hirvonen, who is now in Toronto's organization and hasn't played an NHL game so far. The 2020 draft looks pretty bad after the top picks so it was a good year to trade those picks.

Before the season, I thought Isk would be a trade piece like Raty if the right deal came along, so there is that possibility.

BTW Perif, public congratulations to your Wolverines for winning the title!
 
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Another interesting thing is that Arizona hasn't really gotten much out of the assets we gave them for Ladd:

JJ Moser playing now, seems like a nice #5/6 so far, drafted #60 overall
Mattias Havelid now on San Jose (NJ took Seamus Casey right after Havelid, not bad)
Tanner Luedke still in college and a middling prospect

Obviously there's opportunity cost, And still early, but it doesn't look like we did too badly on that one too.
 
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leeroggy said:
A little disagreement . . . the 6 below were not forced to be given up, they were normal trade pieces and Raty is still a possible impact player

Raty
Durandeau
Burroughs
Greer
Jobst
Quenneville

Small fun fact: Pageau trade had the 3rd being conditional on winning the Cup, but since we didn't give it up, that was the pick we used for Quinn Finley.

The two players Ottawa picked are Ridley Grieg (28th overall in 2020-small impact so far), and Ronnie Hirvonen, who is now in Toronto's organization and hasn't played an NHL game so far. The 2020 draft looks pretty bad after the top picks so it was a good year to trade those picks.

Before the season, I thought Isk would be a trade piece like Raty if the right deal came along, so there is that possibility.

BTW Perif, public congratulations to your Wolverines for winning the title!
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Lou’s essentially traded junk or hope/dreams (prospects) for actual players that contribute on the ice. And he convinced them to resign with a team that NEVER signed any notable UFAs in its lifetime.

The issue is the Isles didn’t win, no one classifies them as a true cup contender, they only went to the conference finals back to back bc of Trotz and Covid, they didn’t trade or sign the players the fans wanted, there’s no cap flexibility to play ticker toys with the roster, yada, yada… and most people want to fall back on ‘should have rebuilt when JT left.’

Except maybe the new owner everyone craved that was building a new arena everyone craved didn’t want to rebuild, he wanted to compete.

People act like Lou is running some gong show like CLB.

Oh and five games into the season, people wanted Dobson traded. Yup…
 
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Throttle said:
Lou’s essentially traded junk or hope/dreams (prospects) for actual players that contribute on the ice. And he convinced them to resign with a team that NEVER signed any notable UFAs in its lifetime.

The issue is the Isles didn’t win, no one classifies them as a true cup contender, they only went to the conference finals back to back bc of Trotz and Covid, they didn’t trade or sign the players the fans wanted, there’s no cap flexibility to play ticker toys with the roster, yada, yada… and most people want to fall back on ‘should have rebuilt when JT left.’

Except maybe the new owner everyone craved that was building a new arena everyone craved didn’t want to rebuild, he wanted to compete.

People act like Lou is running some gong show like CLB.

Oh and five games into the season, people wanted Dobson traded. Yup…
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Except he's just never added. why is speed such a hard pass on the island?
 
Osakahaus said:
Except he's just never added. why is speed such a hard pass on the island?
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Uh…his baseline was a lotto team with the worst GA in the league and lost its franchise player via UFA. He’s added plenty. Or are we playing that was 5 years ago card?

Every F that’s been added has been faster than the person before him. Gauthier is speed, not much else…Except Palms, a guy signed to replace Eberle since Eberle got worse as the playoffs went on.

He resigned an aging 4th line to minimal value contracts. That’s not the death of this team. They’ll be sunset.

Maybe the best players need to play like the best players? Take the heat off the depth guys? But the players Lou invested in disappear for games on end, but 8 minute a night guys are the core problem. Uh-huh.
 
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periferal said:
I'm confused...

Does every guy drafted in the 2nd round and/or is 5'7 deserve a shot just because of either of those facts?
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Perhaps every guy that appears to have some skills that could translate to the NHL ice should get an opportunity. I get it brother, life is not fair, but it would behoove the NYI to not overlook the height limitations if they are. Hope that alleviated the confusion.
 
leeroggy said:
Another interesting thing is that Arizona hasn't really gotten much out of the assets we gave them for Ladd:

JJ Moser playing now, seems like a nice #5/6 so far, drafted #60 overall
Mattias Havelid now on San Jose (NJ took Seamus Casey right after Havelid, not bad)
Tanner Luedke still in college and a middling prospect

Obviously there's opportunity cost, And still early, but it doesn't look like we did too badly on that one too.
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It’s hard to play that game where you value the draft picks you give up based on the player that a different team picks in the same slot.

The Reinhart trade was a colossal win for the isles, getting Barzal and turning another part of that trade into Beau. If those picks didn’t work out for us, then Edmonton wouldn’t look nearly as bad as they do now.

Fast forward to the Horvat trade. This may be one of those deals that is a win-win for both sides. Even though. Raty and Beau may not amount too much, the first rounder we gave them was flipped and turned into Hronek. Meanwhile, Detroit used our first rounder to get a prospect that is looking really good (Pellikka).

For me, the take-home message is that first round draft picks remain a valuable commodity as long as your scouting is top notch. If your scouting sucks, then it’s easy to say they are worthless and overvalued.
 
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The Real JT said:
For me, the take-home message is that first round draft picks remain a valuable commodity as long as your scouting is top notch. If your scouting sucks, then it’s easy to say they are worthless and overvalued.
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i feel like our scouting is middle of the pack. it varies way too much from hitting, to being very mediocre. isles need more skill guys in the NHL sooner rather than later. thats my problem.
 
seafoam said:
He’s the leading scorer of the farm team…
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Notable, but not gospel.

Since the Isles affiliated with Bridgeport, not too many forwards who played there for 2+ seasons became an impact player for the big club (much less ones who are 5'8/170lbs).
 
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