Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Doshell Propivo]

Wow, it’s almost as if a fan base composed of thousands of individuals has a wide spectrum of opinions. So smart!

yeah, almost.

 

[Osakahaus]

Congrats, you get the Participation Trophy in Kindergarten

If I wanted to play your game then I would've gone along. the islanders defensive system is like a worse version of the 1-2-2,

 

[Doshell Propivo]

That's great and all, but will he dump every single soon-to-be UFA for a pick?

There won't be such a thing as a soon-to-be UFA. Any player that doesn't re-sign to team friendly deal a full year before their contract expires will be traded.

 

[periferal]

How young does this team need to get to suit your needs? Horvat, Barzal, Dobson, Sorokin, your core are all under 28.

When Nelson was 22 everyone wanted him traded because he was soft. Now at 30 he’s become a 30 goal scorer. Too much is made of age.

I realize this team is older from their back to back conference finals appearances, but this team continues to show flashes of good play but buries itself with sloppy play which leads me to think a new strategy with a new coach could be the change it needs

Again there's multiple things at play here. There's no question that a new (better) coach would improve things, but do you honestly believe that even if Barry Trotz came back that he'd get this team to a championship?

And each situation is case by case...Of course Horvat, Barzal, Dobson, Sorokin don't have to get younger, but the *engine* that drove those 2019-2021 playoff runs was the 4th line - And now that feels like a shell of itself very much due to age/attrition.

Even the top teams in the league are going to look to improve their rosters going into the playoffs. Yet there's a good chance this team doesn't even make it there so obviously some more notable improvements need to be made even to make them - Much less win a Cup.

 

[leeroggy]

If I wanted to play your game then I would've gone along. the islanders defensive system is like a worse version of the 1-2-2,

Prove it with video/still photos. Take a few pics from video and analyze them. Everyone loves to throw around terms, but few can show they actually understand what they are saying.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Again there's multiple things at play here. There's no question that a new (better) coach would improve things, but do you honestly believe that even if Barry Trotz came back that he'd get this team to a championship?

And each situation is case by case...Of course Horvat, Barzal, Dobson, Sorokin don't have to get younger, but the *engine* that drove those 2019-2021 playoff runs was the 4th line - And now that feels like a shell of itself very much due to age/attrition.

Even the top teams in the league are going to look to improve their rosters going into the playoffs. Yet there's a good chance this team doesn't even make it there so obviously some more notable improvements need to be made even to make them - Much less win a Cup.

I think that a Horvat type move in 2020 or 2021 could've put us over the top.

How many systems do you actually think are out there?

HOCKEY DEFENSIVE SYSTEMS​

There are a variety of hockey defensive systems, primarily related to how the defense positions itself, and each player’s responsibilities within those defensive schemes. Two of the more common defensive systems are the 2-1-2 and the 1-2-2. In the 2-1-2, two defenders will be out front at the top of the circles working to push the offensive play to either side. The two players near the goal line will defend the goal and attack the puck in the corner on their side. The center of this scheme is a supportive position that fills in gaps and assists the others. In the 1-2-2, a point defender chases the puck side to side and harasses the player with the puck to try to force bad passes or steal the puck. The back four defenders play a box to keep the puck out of the center of the ice.

Quick, which one do we play?

I thought that the system we played was Unleashed.

 

[leeroggy]

I think that a Horvat type move in 2020 or 2021 could've put us over the top.


I thought that the system we played was Unleashed.

Go to the link above I posted from MSN about that, very interesting that Barry admitted he was too tight

 

[MJF]

Calm down people. We’re one of the top 19 teams in the league, and that ain’t bad.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

Here’s a better question.

Can you name the good contracts we have? It’s a shorter list.

On a similar note, would any team pick up Mayfield or Engvall if they were put on waivers? That’s a serious question.

You could buy out Lee, Palmieri or Pageau and all have significant cap savings. Maybe even buy out two of them if you wanted. Engvall and Mayfiekd are bad deals, I’ve said all along I wouldn’t have signed either but they do have relatively low cap hits and Engvall can probably contribute in bottom six role, Mayfield also into third pairing for next couple years and perhaps both are buyout guys in a few years.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Calm down people. We’re one of the top 19 teams in the league, and that ain’t bad.

Were you waiting all season for them to drop this far down to finally be able to use this line?

 

[MJF]

Were you waiting all season for them to drop this far down to finally be able to use this line?

No, I just thought of it here at my car dealership’s service department.

I’m watching Mars Attacks and that Jack Nicholson line is hilarious.

Were you waiting all season for them to drop this far down to finally be able to use this line?

But considering that I’ve always maintained this year’s team’s ceiling is WC1, we’re only a little off that pace. Just slightly below average.

 

[Lek]

How many systems do you actually think are out there?

HOCKEY DEFENSIVE SYSTEMS​

There are a variety of hockey defensive systems, primarily related to how the defense positions itself, and each player’s responsibilities within those defensive schemes. Two of the more common defensive systems are the 2-1-2 and the 1-2-2. In the 2-1-2, two defenders will be out front at the top of the circles working to push the offensive play to either side. The two players near the goal line will defend the goal and attack the puck in the corner on their side. The center of this scheme is a supportive position that fills in gaps and assists the others. In the 1-2-2, a point defender chases the puck side to side and harasses the player with the puck to try to force bad passes or steal the puck. The back four defenders play a box to keep the puck out of the center of the ice.

Quick, which one do we play?

0-1-4

 

[leeroggy]

0-1-4

Here's some info:

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/new-york-islanders/latest-news/new-york-islanders-defensive-structure-nashville-predators-lane-lambert-barry-trotz

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/new-york-islanders/latest-news/new-york-islanders-defensive-structure-romanov-palmieri-horvat-dobson

 

[doublechili]

Again there's multiple things at play here. There's no question that a new (better) coach would improve things, but do you honestly believe that even if Barry Trotz came back that he'd get this team to a championship?

And each situation is case by case...Of course Horvat, Barzal, Dobson, Sorokin don't have to get younger, but the *engine* that drove those 2019-2021 playoff runs was the 4th line - And now that feels like a shell of itself very much due to age/attrition.

Even the top teams in the league are going to look to improve their rosters going into the playoffs. Yet there's a good chance this team doesn't even make it there so obviously some more notable improvements need to be made even to make them - Much less win a Cup.

The problem that Trotz had with the Isles was the same problem he had all those years in NSH: great defense that got them pretty far, but then the lack of offensive output ultimately got them in the end because the margin of error was too small. Trotz won his Cup with WAS because he got them to buy in on D but they also had firepower (especially on the PP) to score enough goals to win 4 series in the playoffs.

So, if Trotz coached the same way and had the same buy in, I think this team could potentially have been more dangerous than the 2019-21 teams because of Dobson, Horvat and the other top end talent.

 

[doublechili]

Here's some info:

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/new-york-islanders/latest-news/new-york-islanders-defensive-structure-nashville-predators-lane-lambert-barry-trotz

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/new-york-islanders/latest-news/new-york-islanders-defensive-structure-romanov-palmieri-horvat-dobson

I guess if we want to be optimistic we can hope that they get through an adjustment period and start executing the new system better?

 

[leeroggy]

I guess if we want to be optimistic we can hope that they get through an adjustment period and start executing the new system better?

It's not really a new system, just adjusting assignments within it. Take away a little of the chasing and make it more of a match-up down low. This is why I push back at those who so easily throw terms around. The article clearly states 'chasing the puck handler behind the net was NOT the system', but the players kept doing it.

That's EXECUTION, not the System. It's like when you try to get the defense moving in lacrosse, it puts more focus on the defense communicating.

There is one thing I wonder about and that is how much Sorokin communicates to the defense? Is HE too passive about instructing his defense during play? He's always seemed to be calm, and maybe he should get a little more vocal?

 

[Osakahaus]

0-1-4

We'd be lucky if the four players could also retrieve the puck

 

[leeroggy]

Maclean or Isk?

 

[The Real JT]

I actually think Mayfield has a good chance of being productive for the majority of his contract. He is big and plays hurt. He shows no sign of breaking down physically. Speed was never his game. His annual salary is likely market for a 5th D in a few years. So yes I think a team would likely claim him if waived.

Engvall on the other hand was a terrible deal.

I’ll politely disagree on Mayfield but he should pay his way for 2-3 years at least (I hope).

Now onto Engvall. He was arguably worth taking a flier on at a low AAV. The 7 year term however was mind blowing. The funny thing is that the Leafs moved on from him because he was too soft (or so said some of the pundits on their boards). It’s remarkably ironic that Lou latched onto him and fell in love with his game.

That was an unforced error Lou.

 

[Lek]

Here's some info:

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/new-york-islanders/latest-news/new-york-islanders-defensive-structure-nashville-predators-lane-lambert-barry-trotz

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/new-york-islanders/latest-news/new-york-islanders-defensive-structure-romanov-palmieri-horvat-dobson

Seen some of that (as in read). So he is tweaking a defensive system that will even further limit our ability to get out of our zone...as well as score, as we have seen.

Sorry, in my non-expert opinion it is an overall system poorly constructed and a band-aid is not going to fix it. There is a disconnect somewhere in the overall system that in 1.5 years has not been fixed. I do not have the faith that Lambert can fix it and/or the players are going to help do so.

You can not fire the players. Well, i guess you can sorta kinda and while that could be highly entertaining.....you can only really fire the coach. A new, a really new voice, is needed and now!

 

[Osakahaus]

I’ll politely disagree on Mayfield but he should pay his was for 2-3 years at least (I hope).

Now onto Engvall. He was arguably worth taking a flier on at a low AAV. The 7 year term however was mind blowing. The funny thing is that the Leafs moved on from him because he was too soft (or so said some of the pundits on their boards). It’s remarkably ironic that Lou latched onto him and fell in love with his game.

That was an unforced error Lou.

Engvall is a good player when you give the guy a shoot first mentality. I want to see him in the same way Colorado made Nichushkin. He's not a bad player. I see the bigger issue is Brock Nelson just getting bad at the worst time. He's a great player but the time for his trade is impending. For a player like him, the time to trade him is now.

Mayfield and Engvall are okay players. I just think its unfortunate how the other parts of the islanders have been hurting. Pelech and Pulock are shells of their former selves without Trotz. Palmieri has been a mess again. Pageau has been long hurt ever since Kucherov was lumberjacking his arms. Losing Parise killed the islanders PK in general.

 

[Throttle]

Lou certainly could have let Mayfield and Engvall walk if they wouldn’t take 4 year deals at the salary we could afford. I like Scott Mayfield but 4x$4M was as much as Lou should have paid him.

Mayfield on 7 or 4 in Year 1, is kinda irrelevant.

It’s who is the replacement for letting him walk last offseason? (No one knows, but maybe the Isles had $3M max to spend there).

 

[leeroggy]

Were you waiting all season for them to drop this far down to finally be able to use this line?

Well, 19 IS a lucky number for the Isles . . .

 

[Throttle]

Maclean or Isk?

Isles fans wet dream: AHLer in the NHL.

 

[miscs75]

Isles fans wet dream: AHLer in the NHL.

I’d rather have MacLean center the 4th line than Wahlstrom bumping Barzal out of his wing spot because Lane wants to roll Mat out as his 3rd line center.