Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[WangMustGo]

They are not cap killers as individual deals but they are still untradeable without retention or sending an asset away. The problem is with everyone locked into to overpaid deals it is hard to have any roster turnover

And this is the biggest problem with the roster. You can’t lockup every middle of the roster guy to a long term deal. Remove JGP and Palmieri and you have 11 million to spend for a top line player.

 

[periferal]

Lee is doing his job after a slow start

Pageau is hindsight, he has not been the same since his hand injury. At the time his contract was fair market value, and he filled a need. Can’t predict injuries

Martin’s contact can be buried. He’s done his job, a few hits a goal or two. What do you expect from a fourth line winger? I don’t think he’s the one putting himself on the ice late in games that’s the coach.

Palmeri is streaky another guy that filled a need at the time and came through in the playoff. He’s only got one more year left and can prob be moved next year if need be, but the question becomes who is his replacement?

I truly believe the issue with this team is coaching

You cannot make the argument that 2 or 3 of the players who were so important to those semi-finals runs a few years back are now a shell of what they were, but....Solving the coaching issue will bring this team back to the semi-finals (or better).

This is not 2021...There are multiple problems wrong with this team in 2024. It's both the coaching and roster - And Lou is responsible for all it...And why he should be held fully accountable for where this team is headed.

I think it's very clear that Trotz, not Lou, was the best thing to happen to this team since the 80's. I literally don't think that another coach could've extracted the results from the rosters from the 2019-2021.

Very lackluster coaches have won Cups because of a great roster (I'm looking at you Dan Bylsma & Jared Bednar), but it's almost impossible for even a stellar coach to win with an average roster.

And further I think that many fans think that because they saw most of this roster make back to back semi-finals a few years back that things are the same today because the names are the same on the back of the jerseys.

Things are not the same. As you pointed out above a few key players are notably worse. Whether it is injury, age, attrition, or whatever...Changing coaches isn't going to be enough to get this team to the promised land. They desperately need to get younger, faster, and deeper (especially on D).

 

[Chardo]

Just checking in. Is he fired yet?

 

[Nassau Revisited]

And this is the biggest problem with the roster. You can’t lockup every middle of the roster guy to a long term deal. Remove JGP and Palmieri and you have 11 million to spend for a top line player.

Exactly, not only is Lou locking up these guys to long contracts they are also overpaid!!

Every year middle 6 forwards are available on 2-3 year deals around 3-4 million but Lou locks up a guy like Engvall for life. Same thing for Mayfield

 

[WangMustGo]

Exactly, not only is Lou locking up these guys to long contracts they are also overpaid!!

Every year middle 6 forwards are available on 2-3 year deals around 3-4 million but Lou locks up a guy like Engvall for life. Same thing for Mayfield

Shouldn’t be locking up guys to 6+ year deals unless they are top of the lineup guys and under 30. Mayfield is now locked up for 7 years as a bottom pairing defenseman. Makes no sense.

 

[Nassau Revisited]

Shouldn’t be locking up guys to 6+ year deals unless they are top of the lineup guys and under 30. Mayfield is now locked up for 7 years as a bottom pairing defenseman. Makes no sense.

We picked up Bortuzzo, Greene, Chara and other vets for more or less free who are all comparable to 7 year Mayfield. Signing Mayfield was horrendous

Also guys like Chara and Greene have so much experience and can mentor younger players like they did with Dobson. Mayfield as 1 team veteran who never won anything brings so little

 

[Doshell Propivo]

We picked up Bortuzzo, Greene, Chara and other vets for more or less free who are all comparable to 7 year Mayfield. Signing Mayfield was horrendous

I don't love his contract but I'll take Mayfield over all three of those guys. You liked Chara when he was here?

 

[Nassau Revisited]

I don't love his contract but I'll take Mayfield over all three of those guys. You liked Chara when he was here?

Yes I would take a Chara type at 1 year at around a million who helped mentor our Norris level dman than Mayfield for 7 years at 3.5.

Dobson developing into Islanders star thanks to help of veteran mentors | NHL.com

Time around Seidenberg, Boychuk, Chara helping defenseman reach full potential

www.nhl.com

 

[The Real JT]

The question regarding Mayfield is not whether this year‘s $3.5 million salary is an overpayment.

He is 31 years old and on year one of the seven year deal. It is fair to say that this year he should be at the peak of his value and productivity compared to the remaining years on his deal.

At the risk of repeating myself, would another team pick up his contract if he were to be waived today? It was an ill advised and frankly desperate move by Lou to resign him.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Just checking in. Is he fired yet?

Yes and so is Lou. Malkin replaced him with an experienced but young GM who has won multiple cups yet embraces analytics and the new NHL. He then hired an awesome coach who's a great motivator and a real players coach that can relate to the modern athlete (both rookies and vets). But he's also a hardass who will bag skate the team after a bad shift. He'll bench anyone and everyone (unless doing so will make the team worse). He won't be afraid to mix up the lines but not too much. Gotta have consistency. He'll call a timeout every game. His facial expressions after goals will be legendary. He won't be afraid to yell at the refs and his pressers will be eloquent and emotional. The new GM will sign everyone to a team-friendly deal. We will build a cup contender the right way and get younger and faster.

Yes I would take a Chara type at 1 year at around a million who helped mentor our Norris level dman than Mayfield for 7 years at 3.5.

Dobson developing into Islanders star thanks to help of veteran mentors | NHL.com

Time around Seidenberg, Boychuk, Chara helping defenseman reach full potential

www.nhl.com

Chara his last season was truly awful. A detriment to the team.

 

[Throttle]

They are not cap killers as individual deals but they are still untradeable without retention or sending an asset away. The problem is with everyone locked into to overpaid deals it is hard to have any roster turnover

And most teams are in the same situation. The Isles situation is not unique.

Yes I would take a Chara type at 1 year at around a million who helped mentor our Norris level dman than Mayfield for 7 years at 3.5.

Dobson developing into Islanders star thanks to help of veteran mentors | NHL.com

Time around Seidenberg, Boychuk, Chara helping defenseman reach full potential

www.nhl.com

And he was slow as a turtle and the Isles missed the playoffs. He was a last minute signing. His mentorship was honorable and excellent, but his on ice play in his role was mediocre at best.

Yes and so is Lou. Malkin replaced him with an experienced but young GM who has won multiple cups yet embraces analytics and the new NHL. He then hired an awesome coach who's a great motivator and a real players coach that can relate to the modern athlete (both rookies and vets). But he's also a hardass who will bag skate the team after a bad shift. He'll bench anyone and everyone (unless doing so will make the team worse). He won't be afraid to mix up the lines but not too much. Gotta have consistency. He'll call a timeout every game. His facial expressions after goals will be legendary. He won't be afraid to yell at the refs and his pressers will be eloquent and emotional. The new GM will sign everyone to a team-friendly deal. We will build a cup contender the right way and get younger and faster.


Chara his last season was truly awful. A detriment to the team.

Excellent summation. Just forgot yelling at the players and calling them out in press conferences.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Excellent summation. Just forgot yelling at the players and calling them out in press conferences.

95% of coaching occurs in press conferences.

 

[miscs75]

How did Lane think:
Lee-Horvat-Barzal
Engvall-Nelson-Palmieri
Holmstrom-Pageau-Gauthier
Martin-Cizikas-Clutterbuck

Should turn into:
Lee-Horvat-Wahlstrom
Fasching-Nelson-Palmieri
Holmstrom-Barzal-Clutterbuck
Martin-Pageau-Gauthier

Not his best decisions. Even with the Cizikas injury, he should have just drawn in Fasching to the 4C spot and rolled with what was banking points in the top 9. Even Andreoff or MacLean as a 4C would be a better decision then dragging Wahlstrom in so he can show off his super negative value.

 

[leeroggy]

Okay, here's a few thoughts that tend to get lost in the coaching conversation . . .

First, I didn't see this posted anywhere, and it's from the day of the Nashville game:

What The Islanders And Barry Trotz Learned From Each other​

MSN

The money quote is that BARRY TROTZ HIMSELF came around to loosening the reins on his system and proved it by hiring Brunette as HC, with a different approach to his own as our coach.

Regardless of whether Lou kept Barry for the 4th year, he clearly indicated he was sort of burned out from the last year here with the family issues:

Barry Trotz won't be behind an NHL bench this season

Trotz, who was fired by the Islanders after the season, turned down a chance to become the bench boss of his hometown club, the Jets.

nypost.com

This is all laid out here. Lou did him a favor to let Barry collect the last year of his contract; anyone who doesn't think Lou understood this even before Barry admitted it to himself is kidding themselves and I've got a bridge for you to purchase. Lou TOOK CARE of Barry and took the bullet.

Here's more about the background leading to Barry being hired to eventually replace Poile:

'Dangerous for everybody': How Predators landed Barry Trotz to replace David Poile as GM

Barry Trotz never emotionally left Nashville after leaving as Predators coach. Now he returns to replace the retiring David Poile as general manager.

www.tennessean.com

You can't read that without accepting he was happy that he found the position as GM, and that he will NEVER AGAIN coach in the NHL.

Even if he coached the 4th year, THAT WAS GOING TO BE IT.

And even HE admits that his system was TOO RESTRICTIVE, in his OWN WORDS.

Enough already with looking backwards.

Lane and Barry are STILL CLOSE personally, if you don't think he was HIGHLY RECOMMENDING of Lane taking over, I have a SECOND BRIDGE for sale.

Now let's understand what is coming. I made a point months ago about how the roster is slowly changing from how Barry played it here to how Lane wants to play it, and that is ongoing. We know the success and we know the failures of individual players in adopting. We made an effort to bump up skating and speed and part of that is playing FOR that. More shots on goal for the other side AND more odd man rushes for us. It's a WORK IN PROGRESS. Next step is likely Palmieri and don't be surprised if Pelech and Pulock are elsewhere by the end of the 24-25 season. Nelson's game is less based on physical play and he'll age better than a lot of our players. Drafting has certainly focused on skating.

It's a WORK IN PROCESS; that's why I don't get so fired up over the game by game results like so many of you do, where living and dying with the season is almost your reason for living based on the comments here.

 

[Glory Days]

The question regarding Mayfield is not whether this year‘s $3.5 million salary is an overpayment.

He is 31 years old and on year one of the seven year deal. It is fair to say that this year he should be at the peak of his value and productivity compared to the remaining years on his deal.

At the risk of repeating myself, would another team pick up his contract if he were to be waived today? It was an ill advised and frankly desperate move by Lou to resign him.

I actually think Mayfield has a good chance of being productive for the majority of his contract. He is big and plays hurt. He shows no sign of breaking down physically. Speed was never his game. His annual salary is likely market for a 5th D in a few years. So yes I think a team would likely claim him if waived.

Engvall on the other hand was a terrible deal.

 

[Osakahaus]

This is probably going to get me some flack but even when Lamoriello is at his worst, none of his moves (with players/prospects) have been destructive like other terrible general managers this franchise has dealt with. Our only trade thats really killing us is still Toews, and that has the cap being hampered (Along with Lou being unable to shed the dreadful Komarov contract)

I will evaluate Lou on a few things, and the biggest mistake he did was trusting Lane Lambert with this roster over any other coaching candidate. The rush to hire him was not justified at all. I feel as if the isles should've waited at least a few more months for any other coach. Lambert's system to Trotz's is like comparing a monster truck to one of those mac and cheese trucks that you give to a toddler. Lamoriello saw those few games in January and didn't bother interviewing anyone else. The second biggest mistake is the inability to move on from the "dead weight" of the roster, like the aforementioned Komarov, but also applies to your Bailey's, Martin's, Clutterbucks, Johnstons, etc. Isles have been waiting too long to ever focus on speed, and when they do focus on speed it just feels like they don't get played at all or struggle. Pierre Engvall in general looks lost not just from the system, but from how terrible the entire roster has played. Same goes for Gauthier. I don't understand the love for the 4th line still, especially when their best years are way past them. When you insist they are still the "identity" and not Barzal/Horvat/Dobson/Sorokin, there are key issues with this team. Should Lamoriello leave a good legacy, i'd say its time to start fielding trade offers on guys like Brock Nelson, Kyle Palmieri, and even Sebastian Aho. Give this roster more youth.

 

[Glory Days]

And this is the biggest problem with the roster. You can’t lockup every middle of the roster guy to a long term deal. Remove JGP and Palmieri and you have 11 million to spend for a top line player.

Sounds like a great idea except when was the last time the Isles signed a major free agent? I’m all for sweeping change but the Isles can’t sign top free agents and I don’t see many hockey trades being made the last couple years.

 

[gordie43]

You cannot make the argument that 2 or 3 of the players who were so important to those semi-finals runs a few years back are now a shell of what they were, but....Solving the coaching issue will bring this team back to the semi-finals (or better).

This is not 2021...There are multiple problems wrong with this team in 2024. It's both the coaching and roster - And Lou is responsible for all it...And why he should be held fully accountable for where this team is headed.

I think it's very clear that Trotz, not Lou, was the best thing to happen to this team since the 80's. I literally don't think that another coach could've extracted the results from the rosters from the 2019-2021.

Very lackluster coaches have won Cups because of a great roster (I'm looking at you Dan Bylsma & Jared Bednar), but it's almost impossible for even a stellar coach to win with an average roster.

And further I think that many fans think that because they saw most of this roster make back to back semi-finals a few years back that things are the same today because the names are the same on the back of the jerseys.

Things are not the same. As you pointed out above a few key players are notably worse. Whether it is injury, age, attrition, or whatever...Changing coaches isn't going to be enough to get this team to the promised land. They desperately need to get younger, faster, and deeper (especially on D).

How young does this team need to get to suit your needs? Horvat, Barzal, Dobson, Sorokin, your core are all under 28.

When Nelson was 22 everyone wanted him traded because he was soft. Now at 30 he’s become a 30 goal scorer. Too much is made of age.

I realize this team is older from their back to back conference finals appearances, but this team continues to show flashes of good play but buries itself with sloppy play which leads me to think a new strategy with a new coach could be the change it needs

 

[Osakahaus]

You can't read that without accepting he was happy that he found the position as GM, and that he will NEVER AGAIN coach in the NHL.

Even if he coached the 4th year, THAT WAS GOING TO BE IT.

And even HE admits that his system was TOO RESTRICTIVE, in his OWN WORDS.

Enough already with looking backwards.

Lane and Barry are STILL CLOSE personally, if you don't think he was HIGHLY RECOMMENDING of Lane taking over, I have a SECOND BRIDGE for sale.

It's a WORK IN PROCESS; that's why I don't get so fired up over the game by game results like so many of you do, where living and dying with the season is almost your reason for living based on the comments here.

Here's the problem

what successful system gets outplayed by 2/3rds of the entire NHL?

 

[leeroggy]

Here's the problem

what successful system gets outplayed by 2/3rds of the entire NHL?

How many systems do you actually think are out there?

HOCKEY DEFENSIVE SYSTEMS​

There are a variety of hockey defensive systems, primarily related to how the defense positions itself, and each player’s responsibilities within those defensive schemes. Two of the more common defensive systems are the 2-1-2 and the 1-2-2. In the 2-1-2, two defenders will be out front at the top of the circles working to push the offensive play to either side. The two players near the goal line will defend the goal and attack the puck in the corner on their side. The center of this scheme is a supportive position that fills in gaps and assists the others. In the 1-2-2, a point defender chases the puck side to side and harasses the player with the puck to try to force bad passes or steal the puck. The back four defenders play a box to keep the puck out of the center of the ice.

Quick, which one do we play?

 

[Lame Lambert]

Yes and so is Lou. Malkin replaced him with an experienced but young GM who has won multiple cups yet embraces analytics and the new NHL. He then hired an awesome coach who's a great motivator and a real players coach that can relate to the modern athlete (both rookies and vets). But he's also a hardass who will bag skate the team after a bad shift. He'll bench anyone and everyone (unless doing so will make the team worse). He won't be afraid to mix up the lines but not too much. Gotta have consistency. He'll call a timeout every game. His facial expressions after goals will be legendary. He won't be afraid to yell at the refs and his pressers will be eloquent and emotional. The new GM will sign everyone to a team-friendly deal. We will build a cup contender the right way and get younger and faster.


Chara his last season was truly awful. A detriment to the team.

Wow, it’s almost as if a fan base composed of thousands of individuals has a wide spectrum of opinions. So smart!

 

[Osakahaus]

How many systems do you actually think are out there?

HOCKEY DEFENSIVE SYSTEMS​

Quick, which one do we play?

a pretty bad one thats what

 

[MJF]

What option did isles have? None of those players are taking one year deals. You gamble on long term deals. I dont think Pageau, Lee, and Palmeri deals are cap killers

Lou certainly could have let Mayfield and Engvall walk if they wouldn’t take 4 year deals at the salary we could afford. I like Scott Mayfield but 4x$4M was as much as Lou should have paid him.

 

[PJGooch]

Yes and so is Lou. Malkin replaced him with an experienced but young GM who has won multiple cups yet embraces analytics and the new NHL. He then hired an awesome coach who's a great motivator and a real players coach that can relate to the modern athlete (both rookies and vets). But he's also a hardass who will bag skate the team after a bad shift. He'll bench anyone and everyone (unless doing so will make the team worse). He won't be afraid to mix up the lines but not too much. Gotta have consistency. He'll call a timeout every game. His facial expressions after goals will be legendary. He won't be afraid to yell at the refs and his pressers will be eloquent and emotional. The new GM will sign everyone to a team-friendly deal. We will build a cup contender the right way and get younger and faster.

That's great and all, but will he dump every single soon-to-be UFA for a pick?

 

[leeroggy]

a pretty bad one thats what

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