Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[doublechili]

It's not really a new system, just adjusting assignments within it. Take away a little of the chasing and make it more of a match-up down low. This is why I push back at those who so easily throw terms around. The article clearly states 'chasing the puck handler behind the net was NOT the system', but the players kept doing it.

That's EXECUTION, not the System. It's like when you try to get the defense moving in lacrosse, it puts more focus on the defense communicating.

There is one thing I wonder about and that is how much Sorokin communicates to the defense? Is HE too passive about instructing his defense during play? He's always seemed to be calm, and maybe he should get a little more vocal?

Part of this is just semantics. I'm not limiting "system" to 1-2-2 or whatever - it's more of a philosophy. Whatever Lambert was telling them to do, for a LONG time they've been chasing guys around to non-dangerous areas and leaving odd man situations in the slot. If Lambert didn't want them doing that, his communication was ineffective. Defenders focusing on the slot would be a good tweak. If faced with the choice, concede the perimeter (or leave it to forwards to cover) and take away the area between the dots and from the net up to the top of the circles.

 

[MJF]

Kyle MacLean has been recalled.

Center for a center.

 

[gordie43]

Isles fans wet dream: AHLer in the NHL.

Nice gives Lane the chance to move Fashing from that fourth line center to first line winger

#lineuproulette

 

[duster19]

Kyle MacLean has been recalled.

Center for a center.

Not sure why this was done now and not games ago. Was playing Fasching at Center really plan B at the start of the season. Seems like isles were asleep at the wheel.

 

[Osakahaus]

Not sure why this was done now and not games ago. Was playing Fasching at Center really plan B at the start of the season. Seems like isles were asleep at the wheel.

Roster space.

 

[Throttle]

Not sure why this was done now and not games ago. Was playing Fasching at Center really plan B at the start of the season. Seems like isles were asleep at the wheel.

Just moving the trash around the table.

The best players need to be the best players. The bottom just need to bump and grind.

 

[Top Corner]

Regarding firing Lambert. At least now, as opposed to earlier in the year there are some more interesting options… Evason, Berube maybe?

Firing Lambert would mean he (Lou) was wrong on his take about the team needing a new voice. I think he (Lou) needs to see almost 1/3 of his roster requires an upgrade.

 

[LeapOnOver]

You cannot make the argument that 2 or 3 of the players who were so important to those semi-finals runs a few years back are now a shell of what they were, but....Solving the coaching issue will bring this team back to the semi-finals (or better).

This is not 2021...There are multiple problems wrong with this team in 2024. It's both the coaching and roster - And Lou is responsible for all it...And why he should be held fully accountable for where this team is headed.

I think it's very clear that Trotz, not Lou, was the best thing to happen to this team since the 80's. I literally don't think that another coach could've extracted the results from the rosters from the 2019-2021.

Very lackluster coaches have won Cups because of a great roster (I'm looking at you Dan Bylsma & Jared Bednar), but it's almost impossible for even a stellar coach to win with an average roster.

And further I think that many fans think that because they saw most of this roster make back to back semi-finals a few years back that things are the same today because the names are the same on the back of the jerseys.

Things are not the same. As you pointed out above a few key players are notably worse. Whether it is injury, age, attrition, or whatever...Changing coaches isn't going to be enough to get this team to the promised land. They desperately need to get younger, faster, and deeper (especially on D).

We are a better team than the Flyers and look what Tortorella is doing. I'm not convinced a new coach won't make us a playoff contender.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Okay, here's a few thoughts that tend to get lost in the coaching conversation . . .

First, I didn't see this posted anywhere, and it's from the day of the Nashville game:

What The Islanders And Barry Trotz Learned From Each other​

MSN

The money quote is that BARRY TROTZ HIMSELF came around to loosening the reins on his system and proved it by hiring Brunette as HC, with a different approach to his own as our coach.

Regardless of whether Lou kept Barry for the 4th year, he clearly indicated he was sort of burned out from the last year here with the family issues:

Barry Trotz won't be behind an NHL bench this season

Trotz, who was fired by the Islanders after the season, turned down a chance to become the bench boss of his hometown club, the Jets.

nypost.com

This is all laid out here. Lou did him a favor to let Barry collect the last year of his contract; anyone who doesn't think Lou understood this even before Barry admitted it to himself is kidding themselves and I've got a bridge for you to purchase. Lou TOOK CARE of Barry and took the bullet.

Here's more about the background leading to Barry being hired to eventually replace Poile:

'Dangerous for everybody': How Predators landed Barry Trotz to replace David Poile as GM

Barry Trotz never emotionally left Nashville after leaving as Predators coach. Now he returns to replace the retiring David Poile as general manager.

www.tennessean.com

You can't read that without accepting he was happy that he found the position as GM, and that he will NEVER AGAIN coach in the NHL.

Even if he coached the 4th year, THAT WAS GOING TO BE IT.

And even HE admits that his system was TOO RESTRICTIVE, in his OWN WORDS.

Enough already with looking backwards.

Lane and Barry are STILL CLOSE personally, if you don't think he was HIGHLY RECOMMENDING of Lane taking over, I have a SECOND BRIDGE for sale.

Now let's understand what is coming. I made a point months ago about how the roster is slowly changing from how Barry played it here to how Lane wants to play it, and that is ongoing. We know the success and we know the failures of individual players in adopting. We made an effort to bump up skating and speed and part of that is playing FOR that. More shots on goal for the other side AND more odd man rushes for us. It's a WORK IN PROGRESS. Next step is likely Palmieri and don't be surprised if Pelech and Pulock are elsewhere by the end of the 24-25 season. Nelson's game is less based on physical play and he'll age better than a lot of our players. Drafting has certainly focused on skating.

It's a WORK IN PROCESS; that's why I don't get so fired up over the game by game results like so many of you do, where living and dying with the season is almost your reason for living based on the comments here.

I agree with a lot of this, but what you mention is where the mistake was made. A "work in progress" is time this core just doesn't have.... and we are on year two of it. It's taking as long to adjust a system in place as it would be to just learn a new system, and that's unacceptable. The team should be getting more comfortable, not less.

The Barry Trotz stuff is spot on.

 

[IslandersGER]

We are a better team than the Flyers and look what Tortorella is doing. I'm not convinced a new coach won't make us a playoff contender.

I was always for Tortorella as new HC for this bunch of Caseys, he would mix up that too comfortable feeling group, especially the kid who had won the Calder.

 

[leeroggy]

I agree with a lot of this, but what you mention is where the mistake was made. A "work in progress" is time this core just doesn't have.... and we are on year two of it. It's taking as long to adjust a system in place as it would be to just learn a new system, and that's unacceptable. The team should be getting more comfortable, not less.

The Barry Trotz stuff is spot on.

To me, the Work in Progress is more about the roster than the system

 

[periferal]

We are a better team than the Flyers and look what Tortorella is doing. I'm not convinced a new coach won't make us a playoff contender.

Playoff contender…Or Cup contender?

But I’ve been dying for a new coach since Lambert was hired. Still waiting on that…And for Lou to do his job better.

 

[periferal]

The problem that Trotz had with the Isles was the same problem he had all those years in NSH: great defense that got them pretty far, but then the lack of offensive output ultimately got them in the end because the margin of error was too small. Trotz won his Cup with WAS because he got them to buy in on D but they also had firepower (especially on the PP) to score enough goals to win 4 series in the playoffs.

So, if Trotz coached the same way and had the same buy in, I think this team could potentially have been more dangerous than the 2019-21 teams because of Dobson, Horvat and the other top end talent.

I agree with you as I literally wrote…

“Again there's multiple things at play here. There's no question that a new (better) coach would improve things, but do you honestly believe that even if Barry Trotz came back that he'd get this team to a championship?”

Still I think we’re going to look back see that guys like Pelech, Mayfield, and Pulock had their best seasons under/because of Trotz.

 

[LeapOnOver]

To me, the Work in Progress is more about the roster than the system

I don't get that, there is very little flexibility in the roster. I don't think adding a player through the trade deadline every year means it's a 'work in progress'. If Lou was making hockey trades, that'd be different. He's been just picking up a pending UFA every year and signing them.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Playoff contender…Or Cup contender?

But I’ve been dying for a new coach since Lambert was hired. Still waiting on that…And for Lou to do his job better.

I don't separate 'playoff contender' and 'cup contender'. Those terms are one and the same in my eyes. Making it to the playoffs means you are a cup contender. There's been too many times throughout history where teams haven't looked like what you would categorize as a cup contender, and win it all. Also plenty of years the cup contenders lose in the first round. I don't call this rose colored glasses or being optimistic, just the simple fact that in sports, anything can happen in the playoffs. If Tortorella gets the Flyers to the playoffs, they will be cup contenders (again, my definition). Trying to separate cup contenders from playoff contenders is a bit too crystal ballish for me.

 

[mm11]

Why draft a 5'7 or 5'6 guy in the 2nd round
If your not going to give him a chance? Might as well draft the guy that makes my bagels in the morning.

 

[leeroggy]

Why draft a 5'7 or 5'6 guy in the 2nd round
If your not going to give him a chance? Might as well draft the guy that makes my bagels in the morning.

Remember that he was the 4th player we picked that year, it was sort of a home run pick (Pronman had him higher than everyone else, but there was certainly skepticism among the ranks), while Bode Wilde was supposed to be an incredible value pick before him.
Isk's issue is he is suited for a Top 6 role given his style of play, so he's basically battling Palmieri and Engvall for a slot. He's still only 23, so there's plenty of time for him.

I don't separate 'playoff contender' and 'cup contender'. Those terms are one and the same in my eyes. Making it to the playoffs means you are a cup contender. There's been too many times throughout history where teams haven't looked like what you would categorize as a cup contender, and win it all. Also plenty of years the cup contenders lose in the first round. I don't call this rose colored glasses or being optimistic, just the simple fact that in sports, anything can happen in the playoffs. If Tortorella gets the Flyers to the playoffs, they will be cup contenders (again, my definition). Trying to separate cup contenders from playoff contenders is a bit too crystal ballish for me.

This is a very fair point given how often a lower seed makes a run. We did as an 8th seed. The Panthers were the 8th seed last year. The Canadians a few years back.
Just get in and take your chances; that's how the NHL runs.

 

[Chardo]

Morning everyone. Is he fired yet?

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Why draft a 5'7 or 5'6 guy in the 2nd round
If your not going to give him a chance? Might as well draft the guy that makes my bagels in the morning.

'Cause like, coulda been another Johnny Gaudreau...

 

[leeroggy]

'Cause like, coulda been another Johnny Gaudreau...

A balanced line of a left-handed American capitalist and a left-handed Soviet marxist! BC and UConn! A match made in heaven. We could even steal the old wrestling name from The Fantastics to use . . .

 

[MJF]

The main reason why I would like to see a new coach here this afternoon is because we need to find out for sure whether our defensive issues are structure and discipline, or have Pelech, Pulock, Mayfield, Pageau's games declined rapidly due to injuries.

Me personally, I believe they are part of the "year older, year more hobbled" core of this team. But as long as they are relied on as much as they are I want to give them a chance with a new coach before I decide that their games are shot.

 

[periferal]

Why draft a 5'7 or 5'6 guy in the 2nd round
If your not going to give him a chance? Might as well draft the guy that makes my bagels in the morning.

I'm confused...

Does every guy drafted in the 2nd round and/or is 5'7 deserve a shot just because of either of those facts?

 

[Glory Days]

I'm confused...

Does every guy drafted in the 2nd round and/or is 5'7 deserve a shot just because of either of those facts?

Of course not…

But when the Isles aren’t getting it done why not give him a chance. Could Ish be much worse than Engvall?

 

[Glory Days]

W

I’ll politely disagree on Mayfield but he should pay his way for 2-3 years at least (I hope).

Now onto Engvall. He was arguably worth taking a flier on at a low AAV. The 7 year term however was mind blowing. The funny thing is that the Leafs moved on from him because he was too soft (or so said some of the pundits on their boards). It’s remarkably ironic that Lou latched onto him and fell in love with his game.

That was an unforced error Lou.

We agree on Engvall. Time will tell which one of us is right on Mayfield. In the overall list of what needs fixing on the team I don’t put Mayfields contract too high on that list.

 

[SI]

How many contract buyouts can you make in

How many contract buyouts can you make in 1 season?

I'm not concerned with the other 12+ teams with bad contracts. I'm only concerned about the Islanders bad contracts and how they affect the moves Lamoriello can make.


Or Palmieri, Pageau, Martin, Lee?

If the answer is yes, maybe it will be worthwhile to waive a few of them if there's no trade partner out there.

I use the other 12 teams as an example of what bad to worse is. Look at Vancouver Edmonton Nashville Minny- Toronto in the past - Toronto now in a different way - for some those are catastrophic ways on dealing with the cap.



If the Isles decided to buyout both Mayfield’s and Engvall the total cap penalty would 2.25 aav - sure for 10 years - but 2.25 is less than what almost half the league is dealing with in dead cap.



Also, Engvall and Mayfield are not playing themselves to buyout scenario. If the contract was 4 years long - no one would be discussing these contracts negatively. YOU just don’t like the contract and basically want to undo it.



And I believe the answer to your question is 3.