Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

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5 Years of Lou -
4 out of 5 years of playoffs
2 ECF
1 first-round exit

Every team has maybes and uncertainties.

I disagree with your premise... it reeks of a safe and conservative approach. Good GMs sometimes need to take risks and be bold as well as shrewd.

Lou may have not necessarily rebuilt the roster, but what he did was rebuild the process and culture and some folks do not recognize that enough here. Maybe it has been 5 years and we forget that the culture and process on the island was SO abysmal.


You stated since LOU took over - now you are moving the goalposts?

Last season - They made the playoffs and got bumped in the first round - they fought and showed immense character when two key players were out. How do you quantify that as NOT better years under the previous regime?
I’m not moving the goal posts. He readily admitted from day one that he believed in the team and made few changes. Two years later he inexplicably fires one of the best coaches in the game and introduced all these maybes.

The morale on this team I can guarantee you is far far worse now than it was pre Lou. Just ask Bailey. Or just ask Barzal. The fickle fans might like it but I doubt few players love a GM who’s telling his players what numbers to wear or telling 30+ year old grown ups that they can’t sport a beard, mustache, or shoulder length hair. That’s ridiculous! (That alone would keep any potential UFAs far away from this club.). Or worse watch your team consistently lose playoff series on one goal because the head coach refuses to take chances or open up the game a bit. These complaints were voiced by several of our gifted players including Barzal and Bailey would have none of it either.

I don’t know what world people are living in where they believe the last two years was an improvement.

Those ECFs were a product of Barry Trotz and Lou riding the previous manager’s team. The further the team was under the management of Lou it got worst starting with the firing of Trotz. You do everything in your power to keep Trotz as our head coach. The last thing you do is fire him and/or convince him to stay. New voice my azz! I don’t see in what universe we are living in where one could say things are looking better on the Island. All these moves Lou is making look profoundly Milburyesque.
 
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Lou may have not necessarily rebuilt the roster, but what he did was rebuild the process and culture and some folks do not recognize that enough here. Maybe it has been 5 years and we forget that the culture and process on the island was SO abysmal.
He rebuilt the roster.
 
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I hear a lot about the Pens shitting the bed by losing the next to last game of the 2022-2023 season against Chicago. That’s true.

The same criticism can be levied against the Isles who were down 3-0 after one period and lost 5-2 in the next to last game of the season against a Caps team that had nothing to play for and were without Ovechkin and Oshie.

Let’s be honest here. Both teams were nothing special.
There’s a bit of difference there. The Pens were erratic last season and really never knew what the heck was gonna happen each night - that’s not consistent with how that team was previously built and played, but they have the same HOF core.

EK was an unnecessary addition, the rest of the core remains, the fringe is still weak, and the G is a wildcard. There’s a deeper issue with that team and EK and Dumbo’s additions ain’t curing it. Crapping the bed on a play in is more demonstrative of their erratic gameplay (EDM is just as erratic, but the west competition is weaker so it’s not as glaring).

On the Isles, it’s no secret that they can play as flat as a mattress most nights because of the style they play, which will lead to crappy the bed a fair amount since they are short on quarters to make the bed shake a bit for their benefit.

It’s more humorous that some fans just can’t get over the hump of the GM didn’t do what I want.
 
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I’m not moving the goal posts. He readily admitted from day one that he believed in the team and made few changes. Two years later he inexplicably fires one of the best coaches in the game and introduced all these maybes.

The morale on this team I can guarantee you is far far worse now than it was pre Lou. Just ask Bailey. Or just ask Barzal. The fickle fans might like it but I doubt few players love a GM who’s telling his players what numbers to wear or telling 30+ year old grown ups that they can’t sport a beard, mustache, or shoulder length hair. That’s ridiculous! (That alone would keep any potential UFAs far away from this club.). Or worse watch your team consistently lose playoff series on one goal because the head coach refuses to take chances or open up the game a bit. These complaints were voiced by several of our gifted players including Barzal and Bailey would have none of it either.

I don’t know what world people are living in where they believe the last two years was an improvement.

Those ECFs were a product of Barry Trotz and Lou riding the previous manager’s team. The further the team was under the management of Lou it got worst starting with the firing of Trotz. You do everything in your power to keep Trotz as our head coach. The last thing you do is fire him and/or convince him to stay. New voice my azz! I don’t see in what universe we are living in where one could say things are looking better on the Island. All these moves Lou is making look profoundly Milburyesque.
You are surely telling all of us SUBJECTIVELY why this team is worse. Do you know what objectively means? How can you guarantee the morale is worse? SMH.

The record, playoff wins, GM of the year awards all speak otherwise - objectively.

On the final point, it shows you know nothing about Milbury and his negative impact on this team - it is hyperbolic and reeks of end the of world shit.

I have nothing else to contribute to this conversation.
 
You are surely telling all of us SUBJECTIVELY why this team is worse. Do you know what objectively means? How can you guarantee the morale is worse? SMH.

The record, playoff wins, GM of the year awards all speak otherwise - objectively.

On the final point, it shows you know nothing about Milbury and his negative impact on this team - it is hyperbolic and reeks of end the of world shit.

I have nothing else to contribute to this conversation.
Oh you want objective? On the top of my head let me think of one. Let’s talk about Horvat. Traded this guy for a first round pick, Beauvillier, and our top prospect in Raty just to sweeten the deal because god knows what we already gave wasn’t enough. Then signs the guy to an 8 year 68 million dollar extension.

Did he score a lot goals? No, in fact Beauvillier alone outscored him all aspects.

Did he gel with Barzal? No

Did he improve our power play. No

Did he do well or contribute in the playoffs. No


I can down the line and show you who and what we lost under Lou the objective stats to show you how bad a move it was and how bad these moves were for the Islanders but I will spare you that. But as a teaser let me ask what did we gain by giving up 3 first rounders, Leddy, Toews, Eberle, Beauvillier, Raty, Trotz, and tons of cap space?

What objectively proves the Islanders have gotten better? We quickly went from 2 ECFs to a no show and a flat tire.
 
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Posters on this board can argue about this team or that team but the real questions that need to be answered are , “Is this team better now than the team that lost to Carolina without a few key contributors?” And “Can this team sustain a key injury or two and have enough depth to make the playoffs?”
well last year was Milo Murphys law
 
In a cap world I think this is the new normal. Who had a VGK-FLA SCF in their bracket this past season? There are really only 2 options anymore: tear it down and rebuild, or everyone else who has to constantly re-tool to improve the roster and maximize asset values.
Lucky Luc in LAK recently said, just get in, fight for positioning, the playoffs are a completely different seasons/environment.

That’s a former HOF player in executive management of a team saying that. So, that’s pretty clear what the mindset from an organization is.
 
Lucky Luc in LAK recently said, just get in, fight for positioning, the playoffs are a completely different seasons/environment.

That’s a former HOF player in executive management of a team saying that. So, that’s pretty clear what the mindset from an organization is.
Isn’t that what Lou has been doing here with the Islanders? Builds “a team made for the playoffs”, provided they can get out of the regular season?
 
I mean it looks like Lou is trading futures solely because he likes the 8th spot in the playoffs. Yup, that’s his goal.

Yzerman is trading futures for the Cup, I guess. Can you explain what he is doing by trading his futures?

Dude...You seriously cannot stop talking about other teams. Of course we know there are good and bad GMs scattered throughout the league. Try to focus on the Isles and what Lou is doing.

And indirectly you are saying Lou is doing a bad job. Your sarcasm of, "Lou is trading futures solely because he likes the 8th spot in the playoffs. Yup, that’s his goal," is noted. Clearly you think he's going for a Cup by trading all the futures...But the results are far short from that. He literally just "led" this team to the "8th spot in the playoffs." There's no HOF coach behind the bench anymore to bail out his flawed roster so this is 100% on on him.

And since you're totally ok with the team "fading into oblivion," I guess there's nothing left to say. You love the GM and the job he's doing so god bless. Keep enjoying.
 
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This is an incorrect way of looking at things. The final standings are a result of the entire season, not the final roster. Are the Islanders better this fall heading into the season than they were last year? The answer is yes.

We will surely see this year won't we? That's why they play the games. I surely hope this team can be a top 4 seed in the East, but if they're struggling to make the playoffs once again in the spring of 2024, I'm almost excited to see the way some fans will justify that is ok.


The Penguins have been struggling with consistency for years now. They're goaltending is always a question mark, they don't prevent goals, and key players are often hurt. They're all well into their 30's, we need to stop pretending like they're the cup team from seven years ago. They aren't. I think they can make the playoffs but I don't think they're waltzing in and I don't think they will be able to win once they get there.

Don't care about the Penguins. What they do has little/no bearing on whether the Isles are talented enough to win a Cup.

That said, if you check out my post commenting on the Karlsson trade, I did make this comment:


"When you have a 36 year old Crosby, 37 year old Malkin, and 36 year old Letang...You need to either go all in every year, or trade those guys and rebuild. They chose the former and did exactly what you should do - Do whatever it takes to add an elite talent...A true puck-moving defenseman who will be in the Hall of Fame one day.

Do I think they'll win a Cup next season? Probably not. But did they do exactly what they should do with that roster if they're not going to rebuild? Absolutely."



So again...F the Penguins. Don't care about them. The real topic is...The Isles might be a better team than they were a year ago, but are they good enough (including coaching) to compete with the Cup contenders in the league? I have my doubts, but hopefully this season proves it one way or the other.
 
We will surely see this year won't we? That's why they play the games. I surely hope this team can be a top 4 seed in the East, but if they're struggling to make the playoffs once again in the spring of 2024, I'm almost excited to see the way some fans will justify that is ok.




Don't care about the Penguins. What they do has little/no bearing on whether the Isles are talented enough to win a Cup.

That said, if you check out my post commenting on the Karlsson trade, I did make this comment:


"When you have a 36 year old Crosby, 37 year old Malkin, and 36 year old Letang...You need to either go all in every year, or trade those guys and rebuild. They chose the former and did exactly what you should do - Do whatever it takes to add an elite talent...A true puck-moving defenseman who will be in the Hall of Fame one day.

Do I think they'll win a Cup next season? Probably not. But did they do exactly what they should do with that roster if they're not going to rebuild? Absolutely."



So again...F the Penguins. Don't care about them. The real topic is...The Isles might be a better team than they were a year ago, but are they good enough (including coaching) to compete with the Cup contenders in the league? I have my doubts, but hopefully this season proves it one way or the other.
They can’t back up their argument because I don’t see how going from 2 Eastern Conference Finals to a team that was a playoff no show and the following year barely squeaks into the playoffs just to get blown out of the water by a team seemingly missing half its players is an improvement.
 
Since I avoided this board for a while during the early offseason and UFA period, let me go on record now with my thoughts:

- I absolutely HATE the Mayfield signing. I was hoping the Isles would walk away from him and bring in a younger, better skating and offensive-minded defenseman who would help relieve pressure on Dobson on the PP, pair better with our existing LHDs and help in possession and transition.

Mayfield dragged down most of his partners last season and seemed content taking risks to boost some of his stats. He tanked the value of Pelech, which is almost impossible, Romanov and Aho at times.

As of now, they are really relying on either Aho to play better in the defensive zone or Bolduc to develop quickly and be the partner Mayfield needs. Amazingly, Mayfield seemed to play his best when paired with Bolduc (in limited minutes), so maybe that is the plan? It is a bit of a gamble.

- Obviously too many years on Varlamov. Two years would have been ideal for the team, maybe three as a compromise, but four is a boon for the player. Maybe they have a handshake deal similar to Uncle Leo so, when the time comes, Varly will walk away like Uncle Leo did and perhaps transition to the front office (I can see him as a Russian/KHL scout), enter coaching, be a team ambassador, etc. If so, then I guess it is fine.

- I am fine with the Horvat trade and signing. That is the ONLY way the Isles can add a player like Horvat. The Isles have to trade for a player, win them over and overpay in terms of the contract. The Isles are not a preferred destination and that makes it harder, as opposed to teams like the Rags, Bruins, Lightning, Panthers, Penguins (at least until Crosby retires), etc.

I am willing to be patient and believe that Horvat and Barzal will gel. Ideally I would like to see a player like Engvall alongside them, but I wouldn't break up the Engvall-Nelson-Palms line to do so. I think Lee gets first shot on that line, unless/until Wahly steps up and earns the role. If Wahly could get that done, the Isles would have two very good toplines.

- The Engvall signing was fine and the injection of speed is needed. Given his game and speed, the contract should be fine. He can be played anywhere and should fit in well.

- The third line should be OK as JGP is dependable and they can figure out the wingers from among Lee (in time I think he slides down - or at least he should), Wahlstrom, Fasching, Holmstrom, Gauthier, etc. If Parise were to return for one more year, it would complicate the roster numbers but I would welcome him back.

- The fourth line. They are going to get another shot, you can argue they shouldn't, but the leash should be short. If they can't stay healthy and produce, then they have to be benched, IR'd or go.

Two years ago, when Martin was clearly not right and was playing on one leg, Trotz should not have kept just writing him into the lineup. Last season, Lane should have rested Clutter more, especially when Fasching was serviceable and, at least IMHO, Durandeau looked OK in that handful of games. The coaches should not be scared to give an ailing player a breather.

Overall, the Isles have been slowly revamping their team, at least trying to add speed and youth at the NHL level and in the system. I like the additions of Horvat, Engvall and Romanov; and prospects like Nelson, Schulz (could be a sleeper), Finley, George, Maggio, Dufour, Liukas, etc.

Hopefully they can sign Jefferies (assuming he has another solid college season) and it will be interesting to see if either Lennox or Tikkanen can develop in net. I have my doubts on the goalies but you never know and it is not an immediate need.

I would argue that they could have taken a bigger step by simply letting Mayfield walk and going a different way, but it is what it is and I will hope he can do the job for a while and a partner is ultimately identified.

I am not as down as others on the Isles overall roster, most teams have flaws and need a mix of luck and health, so I would call myself cautiously optimistic. To me, it falls on the Isles needing to pivot to other options sooner, rather than later, when needed. It would get significantly easier for the team if Palms stays healthy and Wahly can net 20-25 and be serviceable on defense.
 
It’s also definitely better when you have a playoff caliber team the moment you inherit it. Let’s be realistic here and let’s be fair. One GM inherited a piece of shit roster but Lou had plenty to play with. Apples and oranges but we need to forget about Snow and focus on what Lou is doing to this club which is driving it to the ground. The Isles at the very least were making the playoffs consistently and all of a sudden a no show and a very very close no show after Lou had already sold the farm. This is inexcusable.

What the f*** are you talking about? Lou inherited a roster with loads of question marks. Their best player and captain split town as an UFA and short of that series win against FLA 3 years prior, "Snow's Team" hadn't done a damn thing worth noting.

If you remember correctly, Lou approached Year 1 under himself and Trotz as an evaluation year. No one had any expectations that the team would make the playoffs let alone win a round. It was only AFTER the 2018-2019 season that Lou thought that he might have something with the current squad (perhaps all thanks to Barry Trotz) and began making investments to optimize their chances of going further in the playoffs.

Now, perhaps Lou's roster is past it's expiration date, and that's certainly worthy of debate. But to say he had plenty to play with at the time he took over is completely disingenuous. Also, the bolded is a laugh riot coming from you.
 
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It’s also definitely better when you have a playoff caliber team the moment you inherit it.

The team he took over had allowed the most goals against in the league, missed the playoffs, and was on the verge of seeing the franchise face walk away for nothing.

I'd ask you how you consider that "playoff-caliber", but I don't really want to hear the answer.

The Isles at the very least were making the playoffs consistently and all of a sudden a no show and a very very close no show after Lou had already sold the farm. This is inexcusable.

The team made the playoffs 3 straight seasons and got to the CF in two of those three seasons, getting to the second round in all three. That automatically made Lou the most successful Isles GM since Torrey during the Cup years. As in, matter of factly.

And even though I've often critiqued here that I've never seen a team move 4 straight first rounders without being in the midst of winning Cups, which we're obviously not, the farm has not been sold. The verifiable bluechippers may not be there, but there's plenty of NHL material in the system.

And save for Dobson, Romanov, and Nelson (each with 2 more years on the current contract), the absolute key guys on the Island are signed for a good long period of time. The franchise has no need for anyone in the system to usurp Sorokin in goal, Pelech/Pulock/Mayfield on the blueline, or Barzal/Horvat up front. Meaning, key positions are taken care of moving forward and then either the system or free agency can be used to round things out or even bolster them up accordingly.

The situation is not nearly as dire as you're making it out to be.
 
We will surely see this year won't we? That's why they play the games. I surely hope this team can be a top 4 seed in the East, but if they're struggling to make the playoffs once again in the spring of 2024, I'm almost excited to see the way some fans will justify that is ok.

We're just looking at things on paper and I'd be surprised to see if you thought this team was in a worse position on paper this fall than last. I think this team will "struggle" to make the playoffs again (meaning they'll be a team battling for the Wild Card spots) but that's the position they've always had during Lamoriello's tenure here.

Don't care about the Penguins. What they do has little/no bearing on whether the Isles are talented enough to win a Cup.

That said, if you check out my post commenting on the Karlsson trade, I did make this comment:


"When you have a 36 year old Crosby, 37 year old Malkin, and 36 year old Letang...You need to either go all in every year, or trade those guys and rebuild. They chose the former and did exactly what you should do - Do whatever it takes to add an elite talent...A true puck-moving defenseman who will be in the Hall of Fame one day.

Do I think they'll win a Cup next season? Probably not. But did they do exactly what they should do with that roster if they're not going to rebuild? Absolutely."



So again...F the Penguins. Don't care about them. The real topic is...The Isles might be a better team than they were a year ago, but are they good enough (including coaching) to compete with the Cup contenders in the league? I have my doubts, but hopefully this season proves it one way or the other.

I don't care about the Penguins either but if you don't think they can win the cup even with Karlsson, how is that the right move? Objectively they should be re-building but they won't because they won't part with their core players and want them all to retire Penguins.

The second question is always the question. What qualifies as proving that they're able to compete for a cup? If they do not win the cup you can always say, "see, they aren't good enough to compete with the true cup contenders." If they do win the cup you'll be happy just like everyone else. It's very hard to quantify.

I think the Islanders can win the Stanley Cup, because I think any team with great goaltending can do so, but I think both of our goals as fans is to have a team we don't need to worry about actually making the playoffs. We disagree on how to get to that point though. Getting younger to lengthen the "window" is the key to me if they're not going scorched earth.
 
I think this team will "struggle" to make the playoffs again (meaning they'll be a team battling for the Wild Card spots) but that's the position they've always had during Lamoriello's tenure here.
And this should not be acceptable to anyone yet it’s okay for several people here. Why? Because it’s an either/or proposition. Just get in the playoffs and then we go to town because we’re playoff built, or it’s back to the Sim, Sutton, Konopka days of missing the dance.
There’s no in between.
 
And this should not be acceptable to anyone yet it’s okay for several people here. Why? Because it’s an either/or proposition. Just get in the playoffs and then we go to town because we’re playoff built, or it’s back to the Sim, Sutton, Konopka days of missing the dance.
There’s no in between.
I think there's a way to maintain the spot where the team is while adding to it to get them better over the long term.
 
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I think there's a way to maintain the spot where the team is while adding to it to get them better over the long term.
I don’t think so. Not with the players on the roster and in the system who will make up our bottom 6, and not as long as we’re still hoping Barzal finds that elite season everyone thinks Horvat will unlock for him.
 
I don’t think so. Not with the players on the roster and in the system who will make up our bottom 6, and not as long as we’re still hoping Barzal finds that elite season everyone thinks Horvat will unlock for him.

To be fair even before the Islanders acquired Bo I was reading posts stating that they couldn't fit in a player of his caliber. All of a sudden a prospect value pops like Raty and bam they pull off a trade.

I do not see why it is so crazy that one of Dufour, Maggio, Durandeau, Bolduc, or Wahlstrom pop. I'm not saying all of these guys will but I do believe we see one of them at the very least.
 
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