Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Osakahaus]

Trade deadline pick up, he would be incredible.

Pelech-Pulock
Hanafin-Dobson
Romanov-Mayfield

That rivals the Canes for best D in the conference. But we have Sorokin.

Not trade deadline, but I would KILL for that to happen. God I want Hanifin so much. He would fit like a glove, and he could abuse the Canes.

 

[JKP]

Also, a thread with photos of children having bleach poured in their eyes.

You could just save the bleach and make them watch Leafs-Rags… should have the same result…

 

[danteipp]

You could just save the bleach and make them watch Leafs-Rags… should have the same result…

With the game called by Jack Edwards and Leah Hextall.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

With the game called by Jack Edwards and Leah Hextall.

At Barclays Center.

What? Too far?

 

[Osakahaus]

At Barclays Center.

What? Too far?

No we need to go further

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

How was Farinacci not signed? I remember he was on that WJ's team in 2020. Jay O'Brien too but he's nothing special.

As I understand it, the Yotes wanted to sign him. He refused.

 

[periferal]

Since winning back to back Cups 16/17, when Despacito was a thing…they have won one playoff round in six consecutive years, or five since they missed last year. 3 GMs later…Dumbo is doing his best service of poorly executing on a solid core he was handed.

Should PIT go for it? Sure, but Lou has six playoff round victories w/o any franchise players in his five seasons.

"Since winning back to back Cups..."

Love how you just toss that fact in your post aside like it isn't a massive accomplishment. Just one Cup from the Isles would send most on this board into a delirious tantrum of joy they may not come out of...And the Penguins did it twice in the past 7 years.

And since you're talking about the past...How many Cups has Lou won in that same period? And more to the point...How many playoff series victories without Trotz...?

Fast forwarding to today...The Penguins, along with several other teams in the league, are a better team than when they last played in the spring. Your New York Islanders, who were 1 loss away from missing the playoffs to those same Penguins, are not.

If you want to keep talking about the past feel free - Just let's not live there permanently. Lou has an amazing career resume, but that resume isn't improving this roster (or coaching) enough to the level of best teams in the league.

 

[Throttle]

"Since winning back to back Cups..."

Love how you just toss that fact in your post aside like it isn't a massive accomplishment. Just one Cup from the Isles would send most on this board into a delirious tantrum of joy they may not come out of...And the Penguins did it twice in the past 7 years.

And since you're talking about the past...How many Cups has Lou won in that same period? And more to the point...How many playoff series victories without Trotz...?

Fast forwarding to today...The Penguins, along with several other teams in the league, are a better team than when they last played in the spring. Your New York Islanders, who were 1 loss away from missing the playoffs to those same Penguins, are not.

If you want to keep talking about the past feel free - Just let's not live there permanently. Lou has an amazing career resume, but that resume isn't improving this roster (or coaching) enough to the level of best teams in the league.

And there you go. Only if PIT would have won vs. the worst team in the league, then they make the playoffs.

Isles and Lou can suck all day long, but kinda says something about a team that can win and play better without it’s allegedly best player (and lose when he returns in the playoffs) and a team stacked with SC winners and HOFers that can’t beat the worst team in the league to actually make the playoffs.

If the team fades into oblivion, then so be it. The Pens will be just as erratic next year as they were last year - Dumbo hasn’t changed that.

The Rangers improved last summer and at the deadline, how’d that work out? I mean Boston and Toronto really went all in and ‘improved’ at the trade deadline, how’d that work out?

 

[periferal]

And there you go. Only if PIT would have won vs. the worst team in the league, then they make the playoffs.

Isles and Lou can suck all day long, but kinda says something about a team that can win and play better without it’s allegedly best player (and lose when he returns in the playoffs) and a team stacked with SC winners and HOFers that can’t beat the worst team in the league to actually make the playoffs.

If the team fades into oblivion, then so be it. The Pens will be just as erratic next year as they were last year - Dumbo hasn’t changed that.

The Rangers improved last summer and at the deadline, how’d that work out? I mean Boston and Toronto really went all in and ‘improved’ at the trade deadline, how’d that work out?

Not even sure what your point is. You keep talking about other teams and yet all you say about the Isles is, "If the team fades into oblivion, then so be it." What does that even mean? Usually when using a phrase like that people use a qualifier like, "If this team trades all its futures to go for a Cup and fades into oblivion, then so be it."

You seem to be suggesting you're ok with Lou just keeping us basically a middle of the pack team not close to a championship...And are ok riding that philosophy into the sun.

 

[Throttle]

Not even sure what your point is. You keep talking about other teams and yet all you say about the Isles is, "If the team fades into oblivion, then so be it." What does that even mean? Usually when using a phrase like that people use a qualifier like, "If this team trades all its futures to go for a Cup and fades into oblivion, then so be it."

You seem to be suggesting you're ok with Lou just keeping us basically a middle of the pack team not close to a championship...And are ok riding that philosophy into the sun.

I mean it looks like Lou is trading futures solely because he likes the 8th spot in the playoffs. Yup, that’s his goal.

Yzerman is trading futures for the Cup, I guess. Can you explain what he is doing by trading his futures?

 

[PK Cronin]

"Since winning back to back Cups..."

Love how you just toss that fact in your post aside like it isn't a massive accomplishment. Just one Cup from the Isles would send most on this board into a delirious tantrum of joy they may not come out of...And the Penguins did it twice in the past 7 years.

And since you're talking about the past...How many Cups has Lou won in that same period? And more to the point...How many playoff series victories without Trotz...?

Fast forwarding to today...The Penguins, along with several other teams in the league, are a better team than when they last played in the spring. Your New York Islanders, who were 1 loss away from missing the playoffs to those same Penguins, are not.

If you want to keep talking about the past feel free - Just let's not live there permanently. Lou has an amazing career resume, but that resume isn't improving this roster (or coaching) enough to the level of best teams in the league.

This is an incorrect way of looking at things. The final standings are a result of the entire season, not the final roster. Are the Islanders better this fall heading into the season than they were last year? The answer is yes.

The Penguins have been struggling with consistency for years now. They're goaltending is always a question mark, they don't prevent goals, and key players are often hurt. They're all well into their 30's, we need to stop pretending like they're the cup team from seven years ago. They aren't. I think they can make the playoffs but I don't think they're waltzing in and I don't think they will be able to win once they get there.

 

[YearlyLottery]

"Since winning back to back Cups..."

Love how you just toss that fact in your post aside like it isn't a massive accomplishment. Just one Cup from the Isles would send most on this board into a delirious tantrum of joy they may not come out of...And the Penguins did it twice in the past 7 years.

And since you're talking about the past...How many Cups has Lou won in that same period? And more to the point...How many playoff series victories without Trotz...?

Fast forwarding to today...The Penguins, along with several other teams in the league, are a better team than when they last played in the spring. Your New York Islanders, who were 1 loss away from missing the playoffs to those same Penguins, are not.

If you want to keep talking about the past feel free - Just let's not live there permanently. Lou has an amazing career resume, but that resume isn't improving this roster (or coaching) enough to the level of best teams in the league.

In order for this take to make sense you would have to assume everything goes the exact same as last season aside from Pittsburgh picking up Karlsson. Over the course of an 82 game season this just isn't realistic.

 

[Top Corner]

Posters on this board can argue about this team or that team but the real questions that need to be answered are , “Is this team better now than the team that lost to Carolina without a few key contributors?” And “Can this team sustain a key injury or two and have enough depth to make the playoffs?”

 

[WangMustGo]

Posters on this board can argue about this team or that team but the real questions that need to be answered are , “Is this team better now than the team that lost to Carolina without a few key contributors?” And “Can this team sustain a key injury or two and have enough depth to make the playoffs?”

I think there are too many questions to answer that confidently. Does Dobson and Romanov step up? Does Wahlstrom score 20+ goals? Is the PP atleast average? Does Horvat and Barzal gel?

 

[PK Cronin]

Posters on this board can argue about this team or that team but the real questions that need to be answered are , “Is this team better now than the team that lost to Carolina without a few key contributors?” And “Can this team sustain a key injury or two and have enough depth to make the playoffs?”

I think those are important questions. We saw the answer to the latter question last year, the answer was yes (depending on who gets hurt). The question to the first one is no.

Follow up questions:

1) Can this team get more out of the same roster it ended with having a full season of playing together?

2) Can they add the necessary pieces to improve the team by the trade deadline this year?

Less important:

3) Would a different match up yield a different result? Carolina has killed the Islanders for years now, even when the team was going on deep playoff runs. If the team can avoid Carolina in the playoffs do they have a legitimate shot to go deep again?

The league isn't static and the same roster can put together a great season one year and then a less impressive one the next. Players take steps forward and regress, or they don't. Are there enough players on the Islanders roster who can take another step forward and be better than we saw last year? Barzal, Horvat, Dobson, Romanov, Holmstrom, and Wahlstrom are all players that could produce significantly more this upcoming season. Who might regress? Nelson, Lee, Pageau, and the fourth line are all the big ones I think. Which is more likely to happen and how does that benefit or hurt the team?

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

The league isn't static and the same roster can put together a great season one year and then a less impressive one the next. Players take steps forward and regress, or they don't.

Things are unpredictable. GMs put the best team they can on the ice and make adjustments along the way depending on how things shake out. Unless the team has obviously torn down the house like a Chicago, that's all a GM can do. You can argue this player vs that player, who is overpaid, the 6th defenseman spot, etc., and that's fine, but that always seems to me to be a myopic view of things.

The team got outcoached by Carolina last year. Lambert was a rookie and got out savvied by BrindAmour. Can he learn from that experience? Maybe. Probably. Could a team unexpectedly blow up next year while another unexpectedly fall like a rock, complicating predictions? Maybe. Probably.

 

[danteipp]

As I understand it, the Yotes wanted to sign him. He refused.

I just checked, while he grew up a Penguins fan, the rest of his family are devoted Rags fans. Interesting how so many players that take the NCAA free agency route, seem to matriculate from Rags families.

I guess after August 15th, we will either see him join the Rags or Pens system. Or maybe he goes home to NJ or stays in Boston, however, we can probably cross the Isles off the list as a potential destination.

 

[Seph]

The team got outcoached by Carolina last year. Lambert was a rookie and got out savvied by BrindAmour. Can he learn from that experience? Maybe. Probably. Could a team unexpectedly blow up next year while another unexpectedly fall like a rock, complicating predictions? Maybe. Probably.

In Gallant's first playoffs as a head coach he got outcoached by Capuano of all people and lost in 6 games. Gallant even had a few years of HC experience under his belt at that point. Then just a couple years later he was coaching in the SC finals with a team nearly everyone expected to be competing for the 1st overall pick. While Gallant certainly has flaws as a HC, it's a good example of what you are talking about -- how playoffs experience can be very valuable for a coach, and they can grow even from a loss.

Like you, I am not saying Lambert will do the same. But I agree it's a mistake to assume he won't either.

 

[The Real JT]

I hear a lot about the Pens shitting the bed by losing the next to last game of the 2022-2023 season against Chicago. That’s true.

The same criticism can be levied against the Isles who were down 3-0 after one period and lost 5-2 in the next to last game of the season against a Caps team that had nothing to play for and were without Ovechkin and Oshie.

Let’s be honest here. Both teams were nothing special.

 

[MJF]

I think those are important questions. We saw the answer to the latter question last year, the answer was yes (depending on who gets hurt). The question to the first one is no.

Follow up questions:

1) Can this team get more out of the same roster it ended with having a full season of playing together?

2) Can they add the necessary pieces to improve the team by the trade deadline this year?

Less important:

3) Would a different match up yield a different result? Carolina has killed the Islanders for years now, even when the team was going on deep playoff runs. If the team can avoid Carolina in the playoffs do they have a legitimate shot to go deep again?

The league isn't static and the same roster can put together a great season one year and then a less impressive one the next. Players take steps forward and regress, or they don't. Are there enough players on the Islanders roster who can take another step forward and be better than we saw last year? Barzal, Horvat, Dobson, Romanov, Holmstrom, and Wahlstrom are all players that could produce significantly more this upcoming season. Who might regress? Nelson, Lee, Pageau, and the fourth line are all the big ones I think. Which is more likely to happen and how does that benefit or hurt the team?

Can Barzal play at a high level for long stretches alongside Horvat? If he can they will be a formidable line to defend. My concern is Barzal has not shown he can do that since his rookie season.

 

[Rehabguy]

Things are unpredictable. GMs put the best team they can on the ice and make adjustments along the way depending on how things shake out. Unless the team has obviously torn down the house like a Chicago, that's all a GM can do. You can argue this player vs that player, who is overpaid, the 6th defenseman spot, etc., and that's fine, but that always seems to me to be a myopic view of things.

The team got outcoached by Carolina last year. Lambert was a rookie and got out savvied by BrindAmour. Can he learn from that experience? Maybe. Probably. Could a team unexpectedly blow up next year while another unexpectedly fall like a rock, complicating predictions? Maybe. Probably.

Good GMs reduce that unpredictability. I agree with Peripheral here. The team is worse since Lou took over. All these “maybes” were introduced by Lou and at considerable cost.

Maybe Horvat starts scoring again and gels with Barzal.

Maybe Lambert figured things out and outperforms Fred Flintstone.

Maybe Engvall becomes a 25 goal winger.

Maybe Dobson, Wahlstrom, Romanov have breakout years.

For a team that everyone recognizes the window to win the Cup is small. These are far too many maybes to introduce to the team and this is all Lou.

Who can argue that Boychuk, Leddy, or Eberle made immediate impacts when they were traded for? Who can argue that Barzal was a great pick that many teams passed over? Who can argue that picking Sorokin was a risk worth taking? Who can argue with the core players that we have on this team and in the past that were developed correctly and along the way signed to reasonable contracts? These are things that good GMs do.

They don’t add maybes especially at a time when an aging core can’t deal with so many maybes. Lou was brought in to take this core to the next level. Instead the team has regressed each year he has been at the helm.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

The team is worse since Lou took over.

The team has been objectively better. I mean, it's not even close.

 

[Rehabguy]

The team has been objectively better. I mean, it's not even close.

The last 2 seasons? Objectively better? How? This was when all those maybes were introduced by Lou. And we don’t even know what the long term impact will be of all these crazy contracts he signed this past off season and the Horvat contract.

This is why I was so against the Islanders hiring Lou in the first place. This was all too easily predictable. Devils fans and Leaf fans warned us but no one listened. I know I did but they were already preaching to the choir.

 

[SI]

Good GMs reduce that unpredictability. I agree with Peripheral here. The team is worse since Lou took over. All these “maybes” were introduced by Lou and at considerable cost.

Maybe Horvat starts scoring again and gels with Barzal.

Maybe Lambert figured things out and outperforms Fred Flintstone.

Maybe Engvall becomes a 25 goal winger.

Maybe Dobson, Wahlstrom, Romanov have breakout years.

For a team that everyone recognizes the window to win the Cup is small. These are far too many maybes to introduce to the team and this is all Lou.

Who can argue that Boychuk, Leddy, or Eberle made immediate impacts when they were traded for? Who can argue with the core players that we have on this team and in the past that were developed correctly and along the way signed to reasonable contracts? These are things that good GMs do.

They don’t add maybes especially at a time when an aging core can’t deal with maybes.

5 Years of Lou -
4 out of 5 years of playoffs
2 ECF
1 first-round exit

Every team has maybes and uncertainties.

I disagree with your premise... it reeks of a safe and conservative approach. Good GMs sometimes need to take risks and be bold as well as shrewd.

Lou may have not necessarily rebuilt the roster, but what he did was rebuild the process and culture and some folks do not recognize that enough here. Maybe it has been 5 years and we forget that the culture and process on the island was SO abysmal.

The last 2 seasons? Objectively better? How?

You stated since LOU took over - now you are moving the goalposts?

Last season - They made the playoffs and got bumped in the first round - they fought and showed immense character when two key players were out. How do you quantify that as NOT better years under the previous regime?

 

[doublechili]

The league isn't static and the same roster can put together a great season one year and then a less impressive one the next. Players take steps forward and regress, or they don't. Are there enough players on the Islanders roster who can take another step forward and be better than we saw last year? Barzal, Horvat, Dobson, Romanov, Holmstrom, and Wahlstrom are all players that could produce significantly more this upcoming season. Who might regress? Nelson, Lee, Pageau, and the fourth line are all the big ones I think. Which is more likely to happen and how does that benefit or hurt the team?

In a cap world I think this is the new normal. Who had a VGK-FLA SCF in their bracket this past season? There are really only 2 options anymore: tear it down and rebuild, or everyone else who has to constantly re-tool to improve the roster and maximize asset values.