Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[impaaaaaact]

And Aho would slot 1 spot ahead of Barzal om that list. They are similar quality. Aho has a clear advantage of playing with better players in a more offensive system.

Obviously I would love to see Barzal at the top of the list, but thats just not realistic. He should be close to a PPG with a decent PP and decent teammates. Similar to what Aho is.

Yes you’re right, Aho’s worst statistical season in the last 5 years still ranks ahead of Barzal’s best since his rookie year.

Listen, we’re all Isles fans here. I hope that you are correct in your assessment. This year it seems like Barzy is likely to play on a line with at least 1 30ish goal scorer, and there’s a chance he’ll be with two. Trotz is gone. He’s not mired in some defensive system and he’s likely not going to be shackled by his defensive responsibilities as a center. Every excuse we’ve made for him for so long has been addressed. So I guess this is the year he firmly cements his top 20 forward status, worthy of his contract. I sincerely hope you all are right

 

[Seph]

I’m not reading all that…. I’m happy for you though. Or sorry that happened

LMAO, my first post wasn't thorough enough for you but anything more thorough you won't even read? I guess that confirms my suspicions, but I did at least try to give you the benefit of the doubt first.

Oh well, no need to apologize to me, I enjoy talking about and analyzing hockey. Figured you did too, but my bad.

 

[Lek]

Looks similar to last year. Is anyone excited with this?

Honestly, right now, i would just be excited if the season started.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I wouldn’t be shocked if Barzal was at center this season.

 

[Seph]

I wouldn’t be shocked if Barzal was at center this season.

Me either. I think it's pretty likely we'll try out several different permutations before we find what clicks, and some of them will probably try Barzal at C.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Me either. I think it's pretty likely we'll try out several different permutations before we find what clicks, and some of them will probably try Barzal at C.

Which realistically is what should happen over the course of any 82 game season. I think posters who are worried that Barzal is getting paid $9 million to play wing instead of center at times are bored in July.

The Islanders are deep down the middle. These are not bad problems to have.

 

[JPIsles18]

Okay, well your turn to refute my notion that we are not a UFA destination, lol. Surely you have something to back up the fact that you think we are.

How can you refute something if there's no evidence that the team had tried to sign someone and failed. I believe we weren't a destination during Wang's tenure. I don't believe that to be true with the current ownership/management. The same way you believe it's true that nobody wants to come here. We are both guessing because we don't know who we have tried to sign and failed outside of Panarin.

JG never got an offer from us.
Tavares chose his childhood team and wanted to go home.
We truly have no idea about Kadri.

Who else have we tried to sign and failed? I bet not many because the cap situation has never been good. If anything, the Bo Horvat signing is one to support my claim. He re-signed for 8 years, sure. But I don't see him signing a long term deal with just any team knowing that he'd have multiple offers in free agency.

I also don't care if we can sign UFAs. It's bad value 90% of the time. We have a bunch of bad contracts and that's just signing our own UFAs. Imagine signing middle of the road guys while competing with other teams? Why do we constantly forget there's a cap? UFAs are typically on the wrong side of the aging curve, and you are paying them for past production. There aren't many examples of UFAs that drastically improved a team's outlook at the cost they were signed for. The best and most obvious is Chara to the Bruins. Can you think of any more?

 

[JPIsles18]

I wouldn’t be shocked if Barzal was at center this season.

He's a true center and is very underrated defensively because he doesn't win face-offs. I truly don't think it matters as Horvat can take face-offs, and Barzal can actually play the classic center role after that. He's a far better playmaker. Horvat is not very good at carrying the puck either but has an excellent shot. Horvat also is better at finding soft spots in the offensive zone. Barzal was fine at center, but there was this strange narrative he wasn't because of lack of face-off wins. I still think Timo Meier would've been the better get for the Isles, but it's close. Time will tell.

 

[MJF]

He's a true center and is very underrated defensively because he doesn't win face-offs

This is actually a problem. It doesn’t make him underrated, it makes him a liability in an important aspect of the game. Barzal shouldn’t take defensive zone draws.

Maybe he can ask Phil Esposito to tutor him. He was one of the best faceoff men ever.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I don’t think Horvat is a winger.

 

[Osakahaus]

I'm still just gonna say that last season, the team was able to recover from a dreadful December/January. They can tango with the top tier teams. This is capable of being a good enough squad. Forget the sniper discussions anyways, I just hope the defense does enough to sustain itself.

My concerns will be with the following either way

1. Adam Pelech looked absolutely dreadful post Ovi hit in DC. I hope he is able to return to form because he's crucial to any of our success. He has to be healthy. Him missing games also exposed our defensive situation.

2. Ilya Sorokin MUST be consistent and start no more than 55 games this year. Last season he was either perfect, or gave up some absolutely pathetic goals. He must be consistent and be the 2.34 GAA goalie we paid for. No more games where he gives up 4-6 goals a night. Games like St Louis @ Home, @Arizona, @Washington or game 2 against Carolina. He has to be good, and Varly must play his games. Thats why he's here and not Skarek

3. Depth. Last season showcased how poor our depth is. Its why I like Gauthier, Kuhlman and Pinho aboard, but I believe that other kids in the AHL must step up. This is put up or shut up for our core. We have to go on a run and depth will be tested.

 

[LeapOnOver]

How can you refute something if there's no evidence that the team had tried to sign someone and failed. I believe we weren't a destination during Wang's tenure. I don't believe that to be true with the current ownership/management. The same way you believe it's true that nobody wants to come here. We are both guessing because we don't know who we have tried to sign and failed outside of Panarin.

JG never got an offer from us.
Tavares chose his childhood team and wanted to go home.
We truly have no idea about Kadri.

Who else have we tried to sign and failed? I bet not many because the cap situation has never been good. If anything, the Bo Horvat signing is one to support my claim. He re-signed for 8 years, sure. But I don't see him signing a long term deal with just any team knowing that he'd have multiple offers in free agency.

I also don't care if we can sign UFAs. It's bad value 90% of the time. We have a bunch of bad contracts and that's just signing our own UFAs. Imagine signing middle of the road guys while competing with other teams? Why do we constantly forget there's a cap? UFAs are typically on the wrong side of the aging curve, and you are paying them for past production. There aren't many examples of UFAs that drastically improved a team's outlook at the cost they were signed for. The best and most obvious is Chara to the Bruins. Can you think of any more?

For the entire contract? Of course not, but nobody is beating father time. Both Panarin and Tavares have made huge impacts for their team. Bobrovsky marched his team to the finals. There are many UFAs that make huge impacts. I hate when people talk about UFAs being bad value. It's just fans not accepting the value... because that's what it costs to get them and they think a hockey team's salary is like their household budget. If you aren't up against the cap you aren't trying.

 

[Osakahaus]

For the entire contract? Of course not, but nobody is beating farther time. Both Panarin and Tavares have made huge impacts for their team. Bobrovsky marched his team to the finals. There are many UFAs that make huge impacts. I hate when people talk about UFAs being bad value. It's just fans not accepting the value... because that's what it costs to get them and they think a hockey team's salary is like their household budget. If you aren't up against the cap you aren't trying.

Bobrovsky has been insanely mediocre until this season and faltered in the final

Panarin has become a whipping boy for Rangers fans and a burden

Tavares much the same

Big UFA's dont help you out unless its Pietrangelo.

 

[WangMustGo]

Bobrovsky has been insanely mediocre until this season and faltered in the final

Panarin has become a whipping boy for Rangers fans and a burden

Tavares much the same

Big UFA's dont help you out unless its Pietrangelo.

There is a lot of risk in signing some big name UFAs, but you could also list Hossa, Chara, Hull, Belfour, Niedermayer, Selanne. All of those players won cups after signing as UFAs and all arguably put their team over the top.

 

[Osakahaus]

There is a lot of risk in signing some big name UFAs, but you could also list Hossa, Chara, Hull, Belfour, Niedermayer, Selanne. All of those players won cups after signing as UFAs and all arguably put their team over the top.

I still believe the isles path is through the farm either way

 

[WangMustGo]

I don’t think Horvat is a winger.

I agree, I also think Barzal is better suited as a center. Id like to see Barzal with Nelson to start the season. Nelson takes faceoffs and responsibilities defensively. In the neutral/offensive zone Barzal takes center ice.

I still believe the isles path is through the farm either way

I dont disagree, but the farm doesnt exactly have any bluechip prospects.

 

[Osakahaus]

I dont disagree, but the farm doesnt exactly have any bluechip prospects.

George

 

[periferal]

I still believe the isles path is through the farm either way

And do you believe it's this current "farm" of prospects that is the path...Or a farm they'll probably never have under the current GM?

 

[WangMustGo]

George

When I think of bluechip prospects I think of Dobson, Sorokin, Barzal. I dont think George has that type of upside, but I guess i could be wrong.

 

[Osakahaus]

And do you believe it's this current "farm" of prospects that is the path...Or a farm they'll probably never have under the current GM?

Different GM.

But I think it'll be a fixable problem in 2 seasons

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I agree, I also think Barzal is better suited as a center. Id like to see Barzal with Nelson to start the season. Nelson takes faceoffs and responsibilities defensively. In the neutral/offensive zone Barzal takes center

Sounds overly complex.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

When I think of bluechip prospects I think of Dobson, Sorokin, Barzal. I dont think George has that type of upside, but I guess i could be wrong.

No, you're definitely right.

There are no Dobsons, Sorokins, or Barzals in our prospect pool as it currently stands.

As for George, his prospects were higher when he was drafted than they are now.

This past season - granted, it began with an injury - was not an overall step in the right direction and come playoff time for a strong London team whose talent was spread pretty evenly across 3+ lines, he was getting the ice time of a bottom pairing D, usurped by Edward and Dickinson. Heck, even Ethan MacKinnon was often getting a bigger piece of the ice time pie, especially in PK situations.

Don't get me wrong, it was only George's DY+1 and it was kicked off with a nagging injury. He's got time.

But there are some Isles fans out there who seem to hold him in a reverence that is not yet warranted.

 

[IslesNorway]

And do you believe it's this current "farm" of prospects that is the path...Or a farm they'll probably never have under the current GM?

The prospect pool is of little to no consequence with all major spots in the team signed for the next 6+ years. Perhaps in the 2027 draft can we start thinking about finding somebody who can actually make the team.

 

[The Real JT]

I still believe the isles path is through the farm either way

Waiter, check please.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

And do you believe it's this current "farm" of prospects that is the path...Or a farm they'll probably never have under the current GM?

The prospect pool is of little to no consequence with all major spots in the team signed for the next 6+ years. Perhaps in the 2027 draft can we start thinking about finding somebody who can actually make the team.

I was actually coming over to post something to this very effect.

All the publications and independent agencies have the Isles ranked among the 4 worst prospect bins in hockey. And they're right. But it ultimately plays absolutely no role right now in the construction of this team here, now, and in the near future.

The most valuable intrinsic value that either our picks or our prospects play is as trading pieces.

Be it the current roster or depth players for short-term fill-ins - that's all taken care of. Should there be injuries along the way or a major weakness develops, our picks and prospects are about being the currency to react to those developments.

The better any of the prospects do, the more firepower Lou has for the trades.

Granted, the last LHD spot seems open for someone within the system and there'll be some contract coming off the books next season and the season after, but the current construction isn't about needing prospects and isn't about making space for them.