Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Richie Daggers Crime]

But there are some Isles fans out there who seem to hold him in a reverence that is not yet warranted.

Prospects are revered simply for being prospects.

 

[JPIsles18]

For the entire contract? Of course not, but nobody is beating farther time. Both Panarin and Tavares have made huge impacts for their team. Bobrovsky marched his team to the finals. There are many UFAs that make huge impacts. I hate when people talk about UFAs being bad value. It's just fans not accepting the value... because that's what it costs to get them and they think a hockey team's salary is like their household budget. If you aren't up against the cap you aren't trying.

Panarin is a superstar player who made a huge impact. I agree. Tavares is a star player who made an impact as well. However, one could make the argument that the Tavares contract cost the Leafs a chance to build a better blue line or have better forward depth. In fairness, that signing was made without the knowledge of COVID cap stall.

In a salary cap world, value matters. Signing one player to a bloated and long contract, means you have less to sign another player. It's important to sign guys on manageable deals because if needed, you can move those players without sweetening the pot as well.

Also the Bobrovsky contract is still not worth it. He has been mostly terrible and got hot in the playoffs. The only reason the Bob contract works, is because Florida has done a better job than just about anyone at having a "value" roster. Almost everyone is on a team friendly or reasonable deal except for Bob.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

The only reason the Bob contract works, is because Florida has done a better job than just about anyone at having a "value" roster. Almost everyone is on a team friendly or reasonable deal except for Bob.

Easier to do in Florida.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Prospects are revered simply for being prospects.

My blanket statement with regards to our prospects is:
<<<
Don't matter who he is, he ain't gonna be a top 3 line player anytime in the next two seasons.
<<<

 

[SI]

My blanket statement with regards to our prospects is:
<<<
Don't matter who he is, he ain't gonna be a top 3 line player anytime in the next two seasons.
<<<

I am confused by this blanket statement because I can see Dufour being someone who challenges for a top 9 role maybe as soon as January. Am I not wrong?

Does Holmstrom fit into that category of prospect as well? Bolduc can also wrestle the 6th d spot from Aho- hopefully he has worked this off-season to strengthen his game because at 6’4 - he can be a huge shot in the arm to this blue line and at 800k for the next 2 seasons - a great way to subsidize the higher cap hits.

 

[IslesNorway]

I was actually coming over to post something to this very effect.

All the publications and independent agencies have the Isles ranked among the 4 worst prospect bins in hockey. And they're right. But it ultimately plays absolutely no role right now in the construction of this team here, now, and in the near future.

The most valuable intrinsic value that either our picks or our prospects play is as trading pieces.

Be it the current roster or depth players for short-term fill-ins - that's all taken care of. Should there be injuries along the way or a major weakness develops, our picks and prospects are about being the currency to react to those developments.

The better any of the prospects do, the more firepower Lou has for the trades.

Granted, the last LHD spot seems open for someone within the system and there'll be some contract coming off the books next season and the season after, but the current construction isn't about needing prospects and isn't about making space for them.

And that's how it's going to stay for the next five years or so. Maybe, just maybe, we can replace Palmieri or even Lee from within with the likes of Maggio or Dufour but it's a hell of a long way there. Maybe Danny Nelson can replace Pageau, but that's a good few years away still.
The 4th line has been taken care of through UFAs and as you say, there is one spot to compete for on defence.

There is no point for the Islanders to stockpile picks or even make trades to acquire more because of the lack of roster space. Any trades will be to sell off picks to pay off other teams to take on our junk, or to make a small splash at the deadline.

 

[leeroggy]

It's July 31st and half the posters here want to throw away the season already as doomed to failure . . . and with no possibility that any prospect will help until 2065 . . . meanwhile, in Queens, all the money in the world means a possible sub .500 finish

And even worse, we lost BOTH Adrian Street and Pee Wee Herman today!

 

[Doshell Propivo]

It's July 31st and half the posters here want to throw away the season already as doomed to failure . . . and with no possibility that any prospect will help until 2065 . . . meanwhile, in Queens, all the money in the world means a possible sub .500 finish

And even worse, we lost BOTH Adrian Street and Pee Wee Herman today!

I actually have fairly high hopes for this season. Sorokin, Horvat (playing with Barzal), a more mature Romanov... I think this team will compete for the division.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I am confused by this blanket statement because I can see Dufour being someone who challenges for a top 9 role maybe as soon as January. Am I not wrong?

I don't see him being a topic until maybe January of '25.

But more power to him!

Does Holmstrom fit into that category of prospect as well? Bolduc can also wrestle the 6th d spot from Aho- hopefully he has worked this off-season to strengthen his game because at 6’4 - he can be a huge shot in the arm to this blue line and at 800k for the next 2 seasons - a great way to subsidize the higher cap hits.

To be clear, the blanket statement you're quoting was meant to be a bit facetious.

In general though, both Holmstrom (by most) and Bolduc (by about every standard) are still considered prospects among publications and scouting services, but I admit that I wasn't really thinking of guys who already got to play a bit last season, much less in important games during the stretch run and playoffs. Seems like they're already in the race for a spot on the Island heading into camp.

My personal take on both:
Holmstrom - I think he'll unexpectedly pop at some point. Until then, he's turning into a responsible forward for lower line duty. Certainly not an unintelligent player. It'll keep him in the extended mix.
Bolduc - Like his ability to get the puck to and around the goal from the blueline. He's overly good at that. He's also capable of a very defty pokecheck, facilitated by a huge wingspan. But if he nevers manages to add an extra skating gear, he's gonna be playing in Europe by the time he's 26.

 

[Throttle]

Easier to do in Florida.

Agreed, but that really didn’t become a thing until the cap flattened and players tried to maximize their salary knowing the escrow and flat cap were hurting them and it was gonna be awhile.

Of course, tax friendly AZ ain’t rolling in the players, so it does have its conditions.

 

[Throttle]

Sounds overly complex.

All that for a guy that is going to be the 22nd highest cap hit among forwards in the league this season… too funny.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Of course, tax friendly AZ ain’t rolling in the players, so it does have its conditions.

Arizona can't spend money in general.

 

[Throttle]

Arizona can't spend money in general.

Well, they can, but from a business perspective, might not be the smartest move.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Well, they can, but from a business perspective, might not be the smartest move.

Well, they're not. So, that's what I meant. They choose not to sign players, not necessarily the other way around.

 

[mm11]

It's July 31st and half the posters here want to throw away the season already as doomed to failure . . . and with no possibility that any prospect will help until 2065 . . . meanwhile, in Queens, all the money in the world means a possible sub .500 finish

And even worse, we lost BOTH Adrian Street and Pee Wee Herman today!

I'm just looking to pierce this 4 iron under this huge hanging oak tree limb. Got that going for me

 

[The Real JT]

I'm just looking to pierce this 4 iron under this huge hanging oak tree limb. Got that going for me

You’re quite the diehard if you’re posting while playing golf.

Ball back in the stance and a low follow through but you probably know that. Actually doing it is a whole different thing.

 

[mm11]

You’re quite the diehard if you’re posting while playing golf.

Ball back in the stance and a low follow through but you probably know that. Actually doing it is a whole different thing.

was hooked as a young rug rat kid watching those dynasty teams. Your guy #27 was just about in on all those huge goals. Anyway, ya, caught that 4 iron well but three putted

 

[The Real JT]

was hooked as a young rug rat kid watching those dynasty teams. Your guy #27 was just about in on all those huge goals. Anyway, ya, caught that 4 iron well but three putted

My 4 iron was given a game misconduct a few years ago and now has a permanent position in my basement.

Good for you if nailed the 4 iron. Not so easy to do. Kinda like the Isles scoring on a PP.

We’ll get ‘em next year.

 

[BelovedIsles]

This post contains the kind of nuance that I come here for.

And this thread contains the kind of passive aggression that I come here for.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Prospects are revered simply for being prospects.

It's easier to love a prospect when you don't see any flaws or negative moments.

 

[steveat]

agree...our Aho is better than Barzal.

 

[JPIsles18]

Easier to do in Florida.

I assume you mean state tax. However, that's only part of it. The Tkachuk trade took huge balls and then extending him to a deal that some thought was too much given that he has a RFA. That's a huge bargain at less than 10. But they were also able to get a guy like Duclair for cheap. Verhaeghe for cheap. Sam Reinhart. Forsling was a waivers claim. Sam Bennett was a guy they targeted as undervalued. They have done such a nice job collecting players that they see value in, and extending them to team friendly deals.

Even if you correct for state income tax, those deals are still fantastic. The Devils are another team that have figured out how to get value deals on good players.

Yes, it's easier to do in no tax states. However, a team like Dallas doesn't do it as well mostly with Sequin/Benn contracts.

 

[saintunspecified]

I actually have fairly high hopes for this season. Sorokin, Horvat (playing with Barzal), a more mature Romanov... I think this team will compete for the division.

I sort of agree - but I'm not that optimistic. I see a 50/50 shot at a top-3 finish for the simple reason that no team in the metro is strong at every facet of the game. What seems most likely to me is that either the Islanders or the Rangers join the Hurricanes + Devils in the top 3.

 

[impaaaaaact]

I sort of agree - but I'm not that optimistic. I see a 50/50 shot at a top-3 finish for the simple reason that no team in the metro is strong at every facet of the game. What seems most likely to me is that either the Islanders or the Rangers join the Hurricanes + Devils in the top 3. Pens just received a full overhaul from Dubas and may still have a 100 point defenseman incoming. They had 15 straight playoff appearances before last season where they missed by 1 point.

Let’s not forget the Pens just received a major Dubas overhaul and still may have a 100 point defenseman on the way. They made the playoffs 15 straight seasons before last year where they missed the cut by one point. I think they’ll be rejuvenated and hungry to get back in - I have them finishing above the Rangers personally

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I sort of agree - but I'm not that optimistic. I see a 50/50 shot at a top-3 finish for the simple reason that no team in the metro is strong at every facet of the game. What seems most likely to me is that either the Islanders or the Rangers join the Hurricanes + Devils in the top 3.

Fair. I think this is a playoff team and if all the pieces fall into place they can finish towards the top.