Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[doublechili]

This Nelson talk reminds me of "A Christmas Carol". There's the "Discussion of Nelson Past" from last offseason which was about trading Nelson for all futures as part of a tear-down rebuild. Then there's the "Discussion of Nelson Present", now, which is about the depth we have at C after trading for Horvat, whether Barzal stays at C or moves to RW, whether we start weeding out some older assets in a deal to bring in younger ones, and looking ahead to... the "Discussion of Nelson Future". That's the conversation we'll be having a year from now as Nelson enters the final year of his contract. Then we'll be asking whether we should trade him for assets or extend him, and if extended for how much $$ and for what term since he'll be 33 when the contract begins.

 

[doublechili]

Uh oh. You can't say this part out loud around here.

Sure you can. And chances are you'd be correct.

And you also should be able to say out loud that a tear-down rebuild is not your preferred path to eventually winning a Cup.

Kumbaya, kumbaya.

 

[seafoam]

there are 30, perhaps 31, teams that are not winning the cup in the next two years. and in case you were wondering, there are only 32 teams total in the league. not very good odds.

Odds and chance are not the same.

 

[seafoam]

Uh oh. You can't say this part out loud around here.

Lol. The difference is that I’m not suggesting a full rebuild…

What I am suggesting is that the assets Nelson returns would be more impactful to NYI in years 3-5 (from now and beyond) than Nelson would so if you believe NYI is not a Cup contender in the next two years it makes sense to trade him.

Personally, I think NYI needs one more franchise piece.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

Doesn't really matter whether peeps in here want to trade Nelson or not.

Sure, the argument could be easily made we should trade him at his highest value and get us a winger (finally) or another puck mover, etc....or even some youth...

But Lou isn't going to do it....period.

We could have moved both Mayfield and Varlamov (and perhaps a couple of others) at the deadline with little to no chance of winning the cup and we didn't- and they were expring contracts.

Nelson isn't going anywhere. Lou has repeatedly held firm with his comments in "trusting this unit" and he isnt about to trade his most consistent goal producer over the last 2 seasons (yes, even better than Horvat- 38.87 to 37.97 per82 and that is with the later getting some 200+ more minutes of ice time)...

Couple that with the fact that Barzal continues to struggle in the circle (career worse 35.6% last season) and it simply isn't happening....

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

Doesn't really matter whether peeps in here want to trade Nelson or not.

Sure, the argument could be easily made we should trade him at his highest value and get us a winger (finally) or another puck mover, etc....or even some youth...

But Lou isn't going to do it....period.

We could have moved both Mayfield and Varlamov (and perhaps a couple of others) at the deadline with little to no chance of winning the cup and we didn't- and they were expring contracts.

Nelson isn't going anywhere. Lou has repeatedly held firm with his comments in "trusting this unit" and he isnt about to trade his most consistent goal producer over the last 2 seasons (yes, even better than Horvat- 38.87 to 37.97 per82 and that is with the later getting some 200+ more minutes of ice time)...from a team that struggles to score. He also is coming off his best two years with a man-advantage with a team high 11 goals- and this is a unit we desperately need to fix, which is kind of hard when you take away your best performer...

Couple that with the fact that Barzal continues to struggle in the circle (career worse 35.6% last season) and it simply isn't happening....

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

This is the hogwash.

Nonsense. It’s exactly what he said.

 

[SI]

This Nelson talk reminds me of "A Christmas Carol". There's the "Discussion of Nelson Past" from last offseason which was about trading Nelson for all futures as part of a tear-down rebuild. Then there's the "Discussion of Nelson Present", now, which is about the depth we have at C after trading for Horvat, whether Barzal stays at C or moves to RW, whether we start weeding out some older assets in a deal to bring in younger ones, and looking ahead to... the "Discussion of Nelson Future". That's the conversation we'll be having a year from now as Nelson enters the final year of his contract. Then we'll be asking whether we should trade him for assets or extend him, and if extended for how much $$ and for what term since he'll be 33 when the contract begins.

He will be 34 in October 2024

 

[LeapOnOver]

Odds and chance are not the same.

The similarities of the two are that they are both based on guesses. Wonder how many tear down/ rebuild convos were in the Bruins forum last offseason. Lots of expert prognosticators looking like clowns. How about we stick to facts and just go with Isles have a 1/32 probability to win the cup like every other team in the league.

 

[NC 1972]

I like Mayfield, but hockey is the only team sport that continuously hand out 4-5 year deals to players well into their 30s, and that's the last thing we need. If Mayfield is fine to re-up for 2 years, then that's perfect, but it won't happen. The roster needs to remain fluid and the more long terms deals are handed out, the more it cripples the GM.

Let Mayfield walk into UFA and see what he gets, same with Engvall. If they aren't getting what they hope for a la Klingberg last year, then offer 2 years and call it a day.

With hindsight being 20/20 it’s easy to say now but Mayfield will walk he didn’t make much more than the league minimum for what was it 4-5 years? So he knows this will be his last contract, and surely someone will give him term and money that we won’t. This is the hindsight part given that the SC didn’t land on the Island Mayfield needed to be traded at last year’s deadline along with Varlomov to reclaim some lower cost young players or draft capital. I’m sure I’ll hear about the “window of opportunity and I’ll take the playoffs because anything can happen. But this isn’t the Panthers not even close. Oh forgot the shiny draft picks, but it’s plain to see in a cap league we are handcuffed with no wiggle room and no picks and a weak prospect pool. You need high end talent which we lack our top six is still missing the game breaker, where is our bonafide #1 elite D-man yes we have the tender but the holes are many an aging team lacking speed and breaking down frequently not a very good recipe.

 

[seafoam]

I'm stunned at the amount of people looking to trade Nelson. He's literally the only player who's been remotely consistent for the Islanders. I get it, he probably has a ton of value, but at the same time, this team gets 100x worse and even more mediocre than before.

I am not debating this, I am debating how long this will be the case.

As mentioned above, Nelson will be 34 in October 2024…how many 34 year old+ non-superstars/generational players are their team’s most consistent player? And if they are, how many of those teams are legitimate Cup contenders?

 

[scott99]

Trading Nelson now seems like an odd choice. He’s the Isle’s MVP amongst forwards the last 2 years. Now, if they are out of the playoff race come trade deadline time, I might think differently.

That being said, I think the Isles make the playoffs once again this year. I think Barzal and Horvat together will make a good pairing on the top line, and Nelson/Lee make a nice pairing on line 2. Hopefully the Isles get off to a good start, and the confidence will follow. Having one of the best goalies in hockey helps, plus I have hope that several youngsters improve and/or make bigger contributions this year. Hoping Wahlstrom & Dobson improve, & one or two of the Bridgeport guys make the team (thinking Iskhakov & Dufour, and maybe Bolduc).

 

[Lame Lambert]

I'm stunned at the amount of people looking to trade Nelson. He's literally the only player who's been remotely consistent for the Islanders. I get it, he probably has a ton of value, but at the same time, this team gets 100x worse and even more mediocre than before.

We’re mediocre with him. Time to trade him for assets and rebuild the team over the next 2-3 years.

 

[BelovedIsles]

I'm stunned at the amount of people looking to trade Nelson. He's literally the only player who's been remotely consistent for the Islanders. I get it, he probably has a ton of value, but at the same time, this team gets 100x worse and even more mediocre than before.

It's something to fill the pages with.

 

[Osakahaus]

See you all in August. I know where we are heading.

We’re mediocre with him. Time to trade him for assets and rebuild the team over the next 2-3 years.

Yeah lets trade Brock Nelson, our best drafted player in decades, so we can have magic beans

 

[Top Corner]

Not advocating to trade Nelson but people forget the best time to maximize an asset is when it’s at its highest not when his numbers are on the decline I would prefer if we are moving a centre it be Pageau but he is not bringing a return that’s going to move the needle except for added cap space

 

[Osakahaus]

Not advocating to trade Nelson but people forget the best time to maximize an asset is when it’s at its highest not when his numbers are on the decline I would prefer if we are moving a centre it be Pageau but he is not bringing a return that’s going to move the needle except for added cap space

Not gonna trade either when this team is in COMPETE NOW mode. You cannot trade them.

 

[Top Corner]

Not gonna trade either when this team is in COMPETE NOW mode. You cannot trade them.

Why can’t you trade a player when you are in a COMPLETE Now mode? There are player for player trades not everything is players for picks

 

[Osakahaus]

Why can’t you trade a player when you are in a COMPLETE Now mode? There are player for player trades not everything is players for picks

Nelson is our 30 goal scorer and has a good shot. Unless I can fetch back a good player like Schmaltz or Keller or Kyrou, I will not trade Nelson at all.

 

[Throttle]

Why can’t you trade a player when you are in a COMPLETE Now mode? There are player for player trades not everything is players for picks

Seems like trading him … just because. There’s no recovering his 35G on the roster. Similar to when Eberle was resigned fans crapped him all day long, but no one had an answer to making up his 25G per season. Lou did, he signed Palms, which again was/is crapped on too.

 

[doublechili]

He will be 34 in October 2024

I was counting as of July '24 when the new contract goes into effect, but yeah, as a practical matter you're right that he'll be 34 when the following season is starting. I'm not too worried about Nelson to the extent that he's no Mike Peca. But still, the term and price have to be considered at that age.

We’re mediocre with him. Time to trade him for assets and rebuild the team over the next 2-3 years.

If you're rebuilding the team over 2-3 years, you're retooling.

 

[Seph]

Engvall looked great. Most of us agree. I would rather spend that $ on something higher end or secure. Lou has never let anyone walk that he hasn’t traded for, so if they have the $ - he probably gets signed.

While this is largely true (technically Panik and Schmaltz were traded for and walked at the end of their contract, but that's obviously quibbling), one can also point out that all the under 35 players on expiring contracts that Lou traded for were also extended ASAP after the trade. That hasn't been the case with Engvall. So while I do still think it's likely Engvall does get re-signed, that he wasn't extended immediately and has been allowed to get this close to the UFA period indicates to me that it isn't a slam dunk.

I think it's possible that either Engvall wants more than Lou is willing to pay him or that Lou sees Engvall as a back up plan if he isn't able to acquire a better winger.

 

[NC 1972]

Not advocating to trade Nelson but people forget the best time to maximize an asset is when it’s at its highest not when his numbers are on the decline I would prefer if we are moving a centre it be Pageau but he is not bringing a return that’s going to move the needle except for added cap space

Obviously it’s the old adage better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late. But there are extenuating circumstance, ownership still has to put fans in the seats and Nelson has been the best goal scorer since moving into the new arena. As often stated we are a bubble team not the best place to be and as long as LL believes he can make the playoffs ( revenue) he will continue moving prospects and picks.

 

[Top Corner]

Obviously it’s the old adage better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late. But there are extenuating circumstance, ownership still has to put fans in the seats and Nelson has been the best goal scorer since moving into the new arena. As often stated we are a bubble team not the best place to be and as long as LL believes he can make the playoffs ( revenue) he will continue moving prospects and picks.

That’s kind of why I think this team needs a deck shuffle. This roster is not a lock to make playoffs every year. This leads me to believe the probability especially with no high end prospects coming to help with the heavy lifting just means a cup won’t happen before we are out of runway and a major rebuild will be needed.

 

[SI]

While this is largely true (technically Panik and Schmaltz were traded for and walked at the end of their contract, but that's obviously quibbling), one can also point out that all the under 35 players on expiring contracts that Lou traded for were also extended ASAP after the trade. That hasn't been the case with Engvall. So while I do still think it's likely Engvall does get re-signed, that he wasn't extended immediately and has been allowed to get this close to the UFA period indicates to me that it isn't a slam dunk.

I think it's possible that either Engvall wants more than Lou is willing to pay him or that Lou sees Engvall as a back up plan if he isn't able to acquire a better winger.

Palmieri was not immediately resigned.