Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[CupHolders]

The key for the Isles will be Barzal and Dobson. They both have talent to take their games to the next level, but will they put in the work to do it?

Dobson clearly needs to get stronger. That should be an easy fix but requires dedication from the player.

Barzal needs to also come back healthy and, most importantly, needs to adapt his game to produce better results on the ice. That is more of a mental aspect and maturity. So far I have seen little from Barzal but he can do it if he wants.

If they can elevate their games, then the Isles will be OK.

If they cannot, and the Isles front office and coaching should know better than anyone what they are or are not capable of, then they are the assets that you move for a Tkachuk-type. But you have to make a call before those assets lose too much value.

Then build around Horvat, Nelson and JGP down the middle, while always on the lookout to add another young center to eventually replace JGP.

The Isles are at a clear fork in the road and the next several decisions, like getting a true, puck-moving defenseman vs. just extending Mayfield, will be very important and telling.

Just a reminder, Barzal’s new deal starts this season. But his M-NTC does not kick in until NEXT offseason. Considering Lou’s comments at the time of signing, about “Barzal earning his deal.” It would seem that Lou might have purposely built in a year for Barzal to prove himself.

If he were to be traded, Winnipeg seems to be the team that meets the conditions for a major move with the Isles…

1) talented young vets
2) need for a re-tool
3) difficulty signing players long term

 

[SI]

I don't care about Tkachuk or Eichel per se, but when you're trading 1st round picks for guys like Pageau, Palmeiri, and Romanov then you're burning the candle at both ends when it comes to being able to add elite players like those being discussed.

You don’t get players like that with late 1st round picks.

List the elite players who were traded in the past few years and see what prices they went for? They didn’t go for late 1st rounders. The closest scenario I Can find is the Horvat trade.

The Pageau trade got this team to the ECF for the first time since 1993! Back to Back AND Pageau was big reason for both.


your argument is a theoretical one-
Context is needed - I wouldn’t reverse those trades if it meant no ECF back to back years. best years as an Isles fan since I was a teenager in the early 90’s

 

[danteipp]

Just a reminder, Barzal’s new deal starts this season. But his M-NTC does not kick in until NEXT offseason. Considering Lou’s comments at the time of signing, about “Barzal earning his deal.” It would seem that Lou might have purposely built in a year for Barzal to prove himself.

If he were to be traded, Winnipeg seems to be the team that meets the conditions for a major move with the Isles…

1) talented young vets
2) need for a re-tool
3) difficulty signing players long term

The Jets (top-heavy in terms of talent and needing leadership) have matched up well with the Isles as trade partners for a while. The problem is that Chevy seems to only trade with select teams and feels like one of those GMs incapable of making a hockey trade, instead looking to rip off other teams.

But a Barzal for Kyle Connor trade, with perhaps other pieces involved, makes a lot of sense for both teams. Solving big needs for both.

I agree with you on Lou's comments and intentions. To me, it is alarming that reports came out about Barzal pouting and having issues with trading Beau.

Sure it sucks to lose a good friend, however, if you can't get past that, it is not a great sign for a player's maturity and desire to win at all costs.

Hopefully with some time to reflect and distance, it will not be an issue going forward.

 

[12Dog]

There are a lot of suggestions to dismantle the 4th line. I agree that their time is running down, but before we think about rolling out Parise-Durandeau-Holmstrom, this blogger's choice of words has some merit (in an article discussing what CGY needs to do in the offseason):

"4.) Build an Absolutely Miserable Fourth Line to Play Against
While it sounds fun to roll out the youngest, cutest, most talented bottom six possible — there’s a bit of a fallacy there. The primary issue being that both teams playing on any given night are still comprised of humans that react to emotions and can feel intimidated or frustrated by being physically assaulted."

HockeyBuzz.com - Trevor Neufeld - A Four-Point Plan to Make the Calgary Flames Enjoyable to Watch Again

www.hockeybuzz.com

Can’t hit what you can’t catch

 

[doublechili]

I'd like to get younger guys who can do the same thing the fourth line used to do, but do it quicker.

Can’t hit what you can’t catch

I agree that they need to get younger and faster on the 4th line, but don't be surprised if "younger" isn't necessarily "young". If Clutterbuck can't continue, or is moved, a guy I noticed in a very good way during the playoffs was Noel Acciari of TOR. He's basically Clutterbuck with maybe a bit more offense and speed and he's 31. He's quick enough to catch people, and then hit them. I wouldn't be shocked to see him come in as a UFA this summer if Clutterbuck goes. Oh, and he went to Providence College.

 

[Top Corner]

once the Isles are back to selecting 5th in the draft for a few years running we will all be back in our happy place.

No , I think when the Isles are selecting in the first round for a few years running we will be back in our happy place

 

[CupHolders]

I agree with you on Lou's comments and intentions. To me, it is alarming that reports came out about Barzal pouting and having issues with trading Beau.

Sure it sucks to lose a good friend, however, if you can't get past that, it is not a great sign for a player's maturity and desire to win at all costs.

Reports? What reports?

All of his direct quotes were perfectly professional and seemingly genuine. He seemed very excited about Horvat joining the team. Spoke well of Beau (as a friend would and should) but wished him well, and stated that it was part of the business.

Also think any of PLD, Ehlers would/could be possibilities. Also vets like Scheifle and even Wheeler as a cap dump/shift trade.

 

[SI]

I wonder if a Josh Bailey for Nate Schmidt deal would work?

Schmidt maybe the better player, BUT
Isles take on an extra season at about 1m more in cap. And more actual $.

According to Elliott’s Friedman, the NHL and NHLPA met last Wednesday to discuss cap for next season - he hinted there maybe a rise of up to 2m even without a renegotiation.

 

[Osakahaus]

I wonder if a Josh Bailey for Nate Schmidt deal would work?

Schmidt maybe the better player, BUT
Isles take on an extra season at about 1m more in cap. And more actual $.

According to Elliott’s Friedman, the NHL and NHLPA met last Wednesday to discuss cap for next season - he hinted there maybe a rise of up to 2m even without a renegotiation.

I would instantly do that, but they would also take on a contract that sucks.

 

[SI]

I never said that not having first round picks was what prevented the trade. What I said was the Isles did not even have the assets to make such a trade even if the Isles were on his list. The Isles did not have the assets or cap space for Fiala, Debrincat, etc.

There are very few assets on this team that would bring back considerable return:

Sorokin, Nelson, Dobson.

That is pitiful. Also, before anybody jumps down my throat about players like Barzal/Horvat, etc. They probably won't bring great return because of their contracts. That is part of the equation when evaluating assets. There isn't a single A level prospect. There aren't many value contracts left on the team.

Reports were that it came down to the Canes and Panthers, and Tkachuk chose the Panthers. The Canes have been relevant for years as a budget team, and they still had the assets for such a trade. Such is the difference between a team that builds with nuance and value in mind and Lou.

Just because we had a few years of playoff success does not mean we couldn't sprinkle in young assets and good contracts in the process. Lou gets a pass a lot by a lot of posters on here because we've set the bar real low on success. The posters that really like him weigh heavily on the two ECF runs. However, the way this franchise is being run without a care for the future, may land us in a very painful and long rebuild. Lou ignored the future in Jersey, and it cost them with a long rebuild. We are on the same trajectory unfortunately. It is not too late to change course, but Lou has to realize the major pitfalls of this roster for that to happen.

I do disagree with you but potential hockey trade could be Barzal for Marner - I would say that is a significant return. Pageau for Boeser could also be something that could happen Vancouver is looking for someone exactly like Pageau to take on the D assignments and lead a PK that has been absolute Brutal.

Hockey trades for players like Eichel and Tkachuk require NHL hockey talent going the other way.

The Isles need to add players like Marner without subtracting something from their roster, like Barzal or Pageau.

There is no consideration for the future - the priority is NOW. Enjoy it - you don’t get medals for a strong prospect pool.

 

[seafoam]

The only true "hockey trade" Lamoriello has made as the GM of the New York Islanders is Matt Martin for Eamon McAdam.

Every other trade of significance has involved picks on both or either sides,

Hockey trades are the only trades this organization should be looking to make right now...

 

[Skip To My Lou]

The only true "hockey trade" Lamoriello has made as the GM of the New York Islanders is Matt Martin for Eamon McAdam.

Every other trade of significance has involved picks on both or either sides,

Hockey trades are the only trades this organization should be looking to make right now...

I feel like there are rarely hockey trades anymore in the NHL. Trades are mainly focused around draft picks.

 

[Taswell]

Not that its feasible, but I'd really like to see Nylander on the Isles. The name alone makes it perfect

 

[MJF]

I feel like there are rarely hockey trades anymore in the NHL. Trades are mainly focused around draft picks.

Yeah, draft picks and salary cap issues.

The only true "hockey trade" Lamoriello has made as the GM of the New York Islanders is Matt Martin for Eamon McAdam.

Every other trade of significance has involved picks on both or either sides,

Hockey trades are the only trades this organization should be looking to make right now...

Wasn’t Beauvillier for Horvat a true hockey trade? Tito needed a fresh start somewhere else and Horvat wasn’t going to be extended by the Canucks.

 

[seafoam]

Yeah, draft picks and salary cap issues.


Wasn’t Beauvillier for Horvat a true hockey trade? Tito needed a fresh start somewhere else and Horvat wasn’t going to be extended by the Canucks.

NYI added a 1st and their top prospect.

 

[CupHolders]

NYI added a 1st and their top prospect.

Why does that not make it a hockey trade? There has never really been a hard definition on what is a "hockey trade." Much like the whole "re-tool" vs. "rebuild" it's a bit of subjective gray area of opinion.

 

[MJF]

Why does that not make it a hockey trade? There has never really been a hard definition on what is a "hockey trade." Much like the whole "re-tool" vs. "rebuild" it's a bit of subjective gray area of opinion.

I don’t play the game in GM mode.

NYI added a 1st and their top prospect.

Why does that matter? It balances out the value of the player coming this way.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

The Jets (top-heavy in terms of talent and needing leadership) have matched up well with the Isles as trade partners for a while.

I could see them matching up with Columbus as well.

 

[periferal]

Not that its feasible, but I'd really like to see Nylander on the Isles. The name alone makes it perfect

And I thought Anders Lee had the perfect "Islanders" name...

 

[LeapOnOver]

There were too many times last season where the Isles did not show up to play. In the playoffs they did. They were outmatched quite easily. They played relatively well against the Canes (save for that one blowout), but their best was not good enough to come out of the first round.

With Lee, Horvat, Nelson, and others, there is enough of a veteran presence where shaking up chemistry should not be an issue. In fact, it may light a fire under peoples asses that if the "identity line" can be moved, anybody can.

At this point the "identity line" are 12th forwards on a good team, individually. Together they are a black hole and have not shown an ability to play with other forwards on this team. So yes, I understand chemistry, but for two years in a row, chemistry has produced a mediocre team. Time to change the chemicals.

Matt Tkachuk was a rare elite talent at the time he got traded, and just got better with the Panthers. Unfortunately, we don't have a player like that. Worst part is that we didn't even have the assets to trade for a guy like that, let alone the cap space. Such is life with Lou: load up on gritty old players and ignore organizational depth. There's still a window, but running it back is not an option.

Yeah, you sold me on what you are saying. I guess if LL decides to make sweeping changes (probably won't) I wouldn't be broken up about it.

 

[JPIsles18]

I do disagree with you but potential hockey trade could be Barzal for Marner - I would say that is a significant return. Pageau for Boeser could also be something that could happen Vancouver is looking for someone exactly like Pageau to take on the D assignments and lead a PK that has been absolute Brutal.

Hockey trades for players like Eichel and Tkachuk require NHL hockey talent going the other way.

The Isles need to add players like Marner without subtracting something from their roster, like Barzal or Pageau.

There is no consideration for the future - the priority is NOW. Enjoy it - you don’t get medals for a strong prospect pool.

Marner is a superior player to Barzal even if you correct for positional value. This is a trade that won't happen. It'll take Barzal + to make a deal like that happen.

Furthermore, Boeser isn't very good. I know there were other things going on that may have been distractions for him. However, that's a trade I am not interested in. He is horrific defensively and doesn't provide nearly enough offensively for this to be worthwhile. He also has two more years at 6.65. I think I'd prefer to keep JGP than trade for Boeser. He's also 26, not exactly young on a value contract.

I also don't understand what you mean by the future. My point wasn't about the future. My point was about asset management. For instance, JGP is a valuable 3rd line center. However, when you consider he is on the wrong side of 30 and has a cap hit of 5 mil a year, his value as an asset is decreased. In a cap world that is important. JGP at 3 mil/year is much more valuable than a JGP at 5 mil/year.

There are different ways to mismanage assets: 1) Losing valuable players for nothing like Nashville did with Tolvanen. 2) Trading valuable players for pennies on the dollar because of cap mismanagement (Devon Toews). 3) Paying everyone on the roster close to or above what their production/market value is (basically the NYI as constructed).

When you are paying everyone top dollar to play their role with the exception of Sorokin, you need cheap ELC talent or cheaper young talent on bridge deals. You are making the assumption that I am criticizing trading a 1st rounder for JGP. I am not. There was a time, a much darker time, where the Isles had to get players like Jason Blake, Shawn Bates, Matt Moulson, Trent Hunter, etc from the garbage heap. Those players were all major contributors. Those players weren't late 1st rounders. They were undervalued assets that the Isles were smart enough to scoop up at the time. We need to get back to that. Some creativity can't hurt.

 

[The Real JT]

The logic here escapes me.

Bob has been good, not great, in Florida’s run this year. His contract is still an albatross. And Adin Hill is making $2.175M. How does he explain that?

I don’t see how any of that impacts the Isles. The Isles need to sign Sorokin because he’s the cornerstone piece of the franchise and an elite goaltender in his prime.

 

[gordie43]

The logic here escapes me.

Bob has been good, not great, in Florida’s run this year. His contract is still an albatross. And Adin Hill is making $2.175M. How does he explain that?

I don’t see how any of that impacts the Isles. The Isles need to sign Sorokin because he’s the cornerstone piece of the franchise and an elite goaltender in his prime.

Over his career aiden hill has been an average goalie. What both Bob and Hill prove is if a team’s goalie gets hot in the playoffs anything is possible.

Only difference is Vegas would have had a tougher time getting to the playoffs if Hill had played more than 27 games.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Over his career aiden hill has been an average goalie. What both Bob and Hill prove is if a team’s goalie gets hot in the playoffs anything is possible.

Only difference is Vegas would have had a tougher time getting to the playoffs if Hill had played more than 27 games.

I think folks also forget that Hill did not even start the playoffs. VGK beat Winnipeg with Brossoit in net and he only gave up 10 goals in 5 games. He only got replaced after he got injured. The Oilers were lighting him up, but it's not like Hill was lights out there either.

If the Panthers offense explodes I wouldn't be surprised to see them go back to Brossoit (if he's healthy).

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

The only true "hockey trade" Lamoriello has made as the GM of the New York Islanders is Matt Martin for Eamon McAdam.

I see what you're getting at, in that it was a body for a body, with no extras.

But it was ultimately an NHLer for a nobody. Only one NHL roster grew in the process.

The Horvat deal, on the other hand, despite a prime pick and prospect going back, was the first time Lou actually removed a regular roster player as part of picking up another regular roster player.

If Lou were to be able to move Bailey in a move like the one discussed above, like for Nate Schmidt, that would - for me - feel like the first "true" hockey trade he'd be making in his tenure here.