Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[SI]

When objective observers see what a teams' fans cannot.


"That’s been par for the course under Lou Lamoriello though. Even with those playoff runs to the conference finals in 2020 and 2021, a lot of that has been due to the strong systems coached by Barry Trotz, and in spite of the players Lamoriello has brought in. They aren’t bad by any means, but their lineup has a lot of average pieces at best, and in an era where you either need talent or strategy, Lamoriello’s recent moves have left them without either.

If Lou continues to be at the helm, they’re destined for mediocrity and even if he leaves in the next season or two, the next GM has a massive cap hole to get out of before this team becomes a true contender again. If teams like the Bruins and Jets decide to blow it up, they at least have an easy path to that and some solid pieces to move and establish a strong prospect pool, but the Islanders won’t find too many of those in their system. They dealt their best forward prospect, Aatu Raty, in the Horvat trade. Maybe they make the playoffs again next season, but that will rest solely on Sorokin, and a goalie can only carry a team so far on his own."

Need to pump the brakes on objective - it’s a blogger’s opinion.

Nothing average about Sorokin, Barzal, Nelson, Horvat, Pelech, or Pulock - the team is missing that super star simple as that - missing that premium talent doesn’t make all the other pieces average.

Tell me you’ll stop trying to justify things that weren’t in evidence. He was offered 2 jobs, did not take them, then announced he wasn’t interested in coaching this season.


This seems more plausible than anything else floated around here.

The more plausible scenario was that Lou may have approached Barry about re-upping or Barry told Lou he wasn’t re-upping after his deal was up, then Lou moved on.

Maybe Barry knew the Nashville job would open up.

 

[doublechili]

And my question was why keep Cizikas over Pageau, because I believe one of those 2 players will have to be traded this summer. I don't care how little Casey Cizikas is being paid, I will not keep him simply because his salary matches what a 4th liner should be paid. As long as J-G Pageau is under contract here I'd keep him over Cizikas. I want the better player on the team. Pageau underperforming his contract is still 20 points better than Cizikas underperforming his contract.

IDK. Sure, JGP is a better player than Casey. But Casey is paid like a 4th line C, and JGP is paid like a higher end 3C. 4Cs play under 15 mins a game - do you allocate $5M to that? Playing JGP at 4C would be taking $$ away from someplace else. And C is not a problem here. Puck-moving D is, and speed/skill on the wings is. Gotta leave $$ for that.

 

[doublechili]

When objective observers see what a teams' fans cannot.

"When objective observers write something that jibes with my subjective opinion."

 

[periferal]

"When objective observers write something that jibes with my subjective opinion."

Yup. And just because that's true doesn't mean that the article isn't also true.


Now...What do you believe is true about Lou and this current roster going forward?

 

[doublechili]

If I’m also not mistaken, there was an interview or a sound bite out there where Trotz said he expected to be coaching the Islanders this season and he was ready to so. All we have from Lou is needing a new voice in the room. I take Lou at face value. He has a track record of making some “curious” coaching hirings/firings.

Yeah, but but at the end of the day Trotz declined multiple offers to coach saying he wasn't really ready to coach this year.

I get a lot of the Lou criticisms. But I just don't understand the criticism of letting Trotz go when events afterwards confirmed that he needed a year off (and now he's not coaching - he's a GM). I mean, the guy that was "fired" said his head really wasn't into coaching this year.

 

[doublechili]

Yup. And just because that's true doesn't mean that the article isn't also true.


Now...What do you believe is true about Lou and this current roster going forward?

I believe that your idea of doing a tear down rebuild is unrealistic and nuts.

 

[MJF]

Yeah, but but at the end of the day Trotz declined multiple offers to coach saying he wasn't really ready to coach this year.

I get a lot of the Lou criticisms. But I just don't understand the criticism of letting Trotz go when events afterwards confirmed that he needed a year off (and now he's not coaching - he's a GM). I mean, the guy that was "fired" said his head really wasn't into coaching this year.

Ehh, if Lou knew Trotz didn’t want to coach this year and he knew it the day the playoffs ended you tell him to resign, not fire him. Firing is just that, a termination of employment with cause. Heck Paul Maurice resigned mid-season when he knew he didn’t want to coach anymore. Why are we looking for some deep dark motherf*** here?

I believe that your idea of doing a tear down rebuild is unrealistic and nuts.

I believe it’s necessary and kicking the can down the road any longer is just being too afraid to admit this team is going nowhere fast.

 

[doublechili]

Ehh, if Lou knew Trotz didn’t want to coach this year and he knew it the day the playoffs ended you tell him to resign, not fire him. Firing is just that, a termination of employment with cause. Heck Paul Maurice resigned mid-season when he knew he didn’t want to coach anymore. Why are we looking for some deep dark motherf*** here?

No, I'm not the one complaining that Trotz left.

If you're complaining that Trotz wasn't our coach this year, isn't it relevant that he later said his head wasn't into coaching this year?

 

[MJF]

IDK. Sure, JGP is a better player than Casey. But Casey is paid like a 4th line C, and JGP is paid like a higher end 3C. 4Cs play under 15 mins a game - do you allocate $5M to that? Playing JGP at 4C would be taking $$ away from someplace else. And C is not a problem here. Puck-moving D is, and speed/skill on the wings is. Gotta leave $$ for that.

So Cizikas is paid like the position he’s slotted in, even though that line is used for much more than they should be, we have to keep him?

Goooooood.

Roster decisions like this will keep us battling for that last wild card spot again next year.

No, I'm not the one complaining that Trotz left.

If you're complaining that Trotz wasn't our coach this year, isn't it relevant that he later said his head wasn't into coaching this year?

He only said that after he was fired.

 

[periferal]

I believe that your idea of doing a tear down rebuild is unrealistic and nuts.

Once again you have avoided the question.

 

[MJF]

Need to pump the brakes on objective - it’s a blogger’s opinion.

Nothing average about Sorokin, Barzal, Nelson, Horvat, Pelech, or Pulock - the team is missing that super star simple as that - missing that premium talent doesn’t make all the other pieces average.


The more plausible scenario was that Lou may have approached Barry about re-upping or Barry told Lou he wasn’t re-upping after his deal was up, then Lou moved on.

Maybe Barry knew the Nashville job would open up.

This is a good possibility too. I can believe Trotz knew David Poile was going to retire. Trotz’s ties to the Predators go deep.

 

[doublechili]

So Cizikas is paid like the position he’s slotted in, even though that line is used for much more than they should be, we have to keep him?

Goooooood.

Roster decisions like this will keep us battling for that last wild card spot again next year.


He only said that after he was fired.

$5M for a 4C?

And re: Trotz, who cares when he said it. If he said it an hour ago, does it matter? You're complaining that the guy wasn't our coach, and he said his head wasn't into coaching this year.

 

[beach]

After watching the Panthers in playoffs...I would trade Barzal for Tkachuk,...

Am I out in left field?

Florida would never make that deal

 

[MJF]

$5M for a 4C?

And re: Trotz, who cares when he said it. If he said it an hour ago, does it matter? You're complaining that the guy wasn't our coach, and he said his head wasn't into coaching this year.

And you’re telling me something that was never said at the time he was fired. You must be a mindreader.

Re: Pageau. If he is capable of more than the 40 points he put up this year and plays that way next season he gets more ice time and he isn’t a 4C anymore. Pay the talent, not the spot on the roster.

Florida would never make that deal

Then make it Barzal for Barkov

 

[doublechili]

Once again you have avoided the question.

Once again? First of all, I don't owe you an answer AGAIN. Secondly, I've been saying the same thing over and over when you post the same stuff ad nauseum (are you a Bot?). A tear down rebuild is dumb. I'm not the owners, but if the owners decide they want to move on from Lou I'm fine with that since I have questions about his effectiveness. Whoever the GM is, the team has perhaps the best goalie in the league - the most important position in the sport. They have 4 solid defensemen, but they desperately need at least one higher-end puck-moving/PP point man defenseman. They're pretty good down the middle but need to pare some older/slower salaries on the wing and replace with speed and some skill.

 

[doublechili]

And you’re telling me something that was never said at the time he was fired. You must be a mindreader.

??? I'm thinking about buying a stock in a company. I decide not to buy said stock. I later find out that the product that the company makes doesn't work. I should have bought the stock since it wasn't known that the product didn't work at the time I was considering buying the stock.

Is that what you're saying?

 

[MJF]

Once again? First of all, I don't owe you an answer AGAIN. Secondly, I've been saying the same thing over and over when you post the same stuff ad nauseum (are you a Bot?). A tear down rebuild is dumb. I'm not the owners, but if the owners decide they want to move on from Lou I'm fine with that since I have questions about his effectiveness. Whoever the GM is, the team has perhaps the best goalie in the league - the most important position in the sport. They have 4 solid defensemen, but they desperately need at least one higher-end puck-moving/PP point man defenseman. They're pretty good down the middle but need to pare some older/slower salaries on the wing and replace with speed and some skill.

We just completed Year 2 of recognizing those shortcomings and failing to address them. How long do you keep throwing good money after bad, which is essentially what Lou is doing now.

 

[doublechili]

We just completed Year 2 of recognizing those shortcomings and failing to address them. How long do you keep throwing good money after bad, which is essentially what Lou is doing now.

So trade Sorokin at the draft?

 

[CupHolders]

Reports were that Lou and Trotz were still on very good terms after the firing, and were in constant conversation.

Lou has also been credited by other GMs as a mentor when they were first starting out. Advising on what to expect at the GM meetings etc.

I guess what I’m saying, is that everything played out as…

Trotz as a pro would’ve fulfilled his coaching duty.

Plenty reports out there that his heart wasn’t in coaching. There were even rumors about front office positions. Hindsight shows those had merit.

Lou and the organization did Trotz a solid, letting him collect a check, while working out his personal business.

The positive comments of Trotz, Lou and the Isles towards each other. Lou and Trotz still in contact… likely means Lou was helping Trotz with the decision on moving on to become a GM.

Paul Maurice resigning mid-season is about the only time such a thing has happened. At least to my knowledge.

 

[MJF]

??? I'm thinking about buying a stock in a company. I decide not to buy said stock. I later find out that the product that the company makes doesn't work. I should have bought the stock since it wasn't known that the product didn't work at the time I was considering buying the stock.

Is that what you're saying?

That’s an off the wall scenario that doesn’t apply here. Did everyone know Trotz didn’t want to coach 2023 during 2022? At what point did YOU know? Maybe you should have shared it with us?

All I was aware of was Trotz’s mother passed away, he took time off for that. His father was alone in Manitoba in the family home. The Isles season was a shitshow of many reasons, not all of the coaching staff’s doing. Lou showed faith in the team at the 2022 TDL. The team missed the playoffs. 2 weeks later Lou fired Barry Trotz, said they needed a new voice and reiterated his faith in his roster. Where in this chain of events is it when Trotz indicated he didn’t want to coach in 2023?

So trade Sorokin at the draft?

Yes if we commit to a rebuild. We don’t need a goaltender stealing wins.

 

[doublechili]

That’s an off the wall scenario that doesn’t apply here. Did everyone know Trotz didn’t want to coach 2023 during 2022? At what point did YOU know? Maybe you should have shared it with us?

All I was aware of was Trotz’s mother passed away, he took time off for that. His father was alone in Manitoba in the family home. The Isles season was a shitshow of many reasons, not all of the coaching staff’s doing. Lou showed faith in the team at the 2022 TDL. The team missed the playoffs. 2 weeks later Lou fired Barry Trotz, said they needed a new voice and reiterated his faith in his roster. Where in this chain of events is it when Trotz indicated he didn’t want to coach in 2023?

Once again, we'd better just agree to disagree. You seem to think it's relevant whether it was known that Trotz's head wasn't into coaching at the time he was let go. I think that doesn't matter - what does matter is that the decision to have him not coach the team appears to have been correct, even if in retrospect.

Lou didn't fix the biggest hole in the roster two consecutive off seasons. That's more relevant to me than the Trotz thing.

Yes if we commit to a rebuild. We don’t need a goaltender stealing wins.

Okey dokey.

 

[MJF]

Lou didn't fix the biggest hole in the roster two consecutive off seasons. That's more relevant to me than the Trotz thing.

Deflecting to another issue. The coaching this year was a problem But you go your way.

Okey dokey.

What are you so afraid of?

 

[doublechili]

Deflecting to another issue. The coaching this year was a problem But you go your way.

The coaching was also a problem last year.

What are you so afraid of?

 

[MJF]

The coaching was also a problem last year.

Everything was a problem last year. The players, the coaching, the schedule, a pandemic.

The coaching was also a problem last year.

So why are you afraid of a rebuild?

 

[CupHolders]

This was posted shortly after he was fired...



This article sheds further light on Trotz mental state on coaching...

Barry Trotz opens up about sudden change of heart

Earlier today, he turned down a job and is stepping away from coaching for now.

www.hockeyfeed.com