Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[periferal]

At the deadline, you absolutely have to be active.

Varlamov (UFA)
Mayfield (UFA)
Bailey (1 year left at $5 million, 3.5 million cash)
Beauvillier (1 year left at $4.15 million)
Martin (1 year left at $1.5 million)

Clutterbuck (1 year left at 1,75 will be near impossible to move since he is hurt)

No excuses for him not to trade as many of these as possible.

Failure to do so should have Lou gone, and I would argue he needs to be gone regardless. Time to tear this down and try to build around the 5-6 good players and few prospects we do have.

Varly and Mayfield could absolutely be dealt for like a 2nd round pick each (maybe Mayfield gets a drop more). The other assets...Little/no chance you could move them, even with salary retention.

So based on your setup...You obviously think Lou should be gone since Lou has NEVER traded a single roster player from the Isles unless he was forced to. So I don't think he's going to dump any players. In fact I'm scared (terrified) if we're within like 6-7 points of a playoff spot he might try to ADD at the deadline. 80 year old GMs don't do rebuilds, and they especially don't do them when every single move and comment he's made since taking over has been to try to win now.

 

[Osakahaus]

The fact that we passed on Tolvanen & Kostin, both players with potential. Our organization probably knew nothing about them, just checked their stats. Not sure I even care what they do on trade deadline, I expect nothing.

Klim Kostin is what we wish Clutterbuck was, and Tolvanen is what we wish Palmieri was

again, bad management.

 

[duster19]

They lose these next 2 and we're a bottom 10 team. Stick a fork in them. Sell the UFAs.

It was ok for a bit too. They just fell apart. Couple injuries and they imploded. Lou hasn’t given them any pieces to work with.

 

[Chardo]

Other than Toews, when was the last time the Islanders traded away an actual NHL player?

 

[xECK29x]

A few things here...

1. After all that I wrote in that post that you're solely focusing on just the Tweet is interesting.​

​

2. The Tweet is a metaphor. He also mentions cereal, which is pretty much counter-serious to his overdramatic use of "dictatorship." Don't get so caught up in the visuals to miss the point that...Lou has total control over the direction of this franchise right down to the messaging (or lack thereof) that is put out. And that might be ok if the product wasn't so broken right now. Thus he should be questioned at minimum by Malkin, perhaps have some power removed, and maybe even removed himself.​

​

3. End of day we're all posting on a hockey message board. Again...A hockey. Message. Board. Some of us are too serious, some too childish, but end of day we should all be out touching grass.​

3. Finally something we agree on.

 

[PK Cronin]

Parise genuinely could retire by tomorrow and I would only miss him for penalty killing. Greene was awful last season. He also didn't need to play almost every game, but he did.

The point wasn't about how useful they are or aren't, it's that you might not be able to trade them because they'd refuse to report, which means you don't get anything and actually just flat out lose a player. I get that you don't care of those players are lost, but you're not gaining anything by getting rid of them for nothing.

 

[duster19]

Just one or two of these trades would help. But our problem? at least half of these guys are negative assets. Nobody will want Bailey, or Martin, or even Beau.

They might be able to offload Beau. Maybe. Bailey they will likely have to give an asset. Honestly both those guys should have been moved or waived by now. It has taken wayyyy too long and now is probably to late to save the season. Bailey played at least half the season on the top line. Plays on the PP. He has 6 goals (!)….but only -1 so great player for Lou.

 

[PK Cronin]

Other than Toews, when was the last time the Islanders traded away an actual NHL player?

Nick Leddy, because they were forced to by the cap.

Before that, Devon Toews, because they were forced to by the cap.

Before that, Jason Chimera for Chris Wagner in 2018.

Before that, Travis Hamonic to Calgary, because of the trade request.

Before that, Ryan Strome for Jordan Eberle in 2017.

 

[doublechili]

Lou has total control over the direction of this franchise right down to the messaging (or lack thereof) that is put out. And that might be ok if the product wasn't so broken right now. Thus he should be questioned at minimum by Malkin

Of the things that Malkin might dislike about Lou, I doubt the guy who says absolutely nothing is upset about Lou's lack of messaging.

 

[periferal]

Other than Toews, when was the last time the Islanders traded away an actual NHL player?

I think the only thing that matters is that Lou has never traded away a player unless the cap or expansion draft forced him to. Thus that's the probably kind of GMing we can count on going forward.

 

[Osakahaus]

The point wasn't about how useful they are or aren't, it's that you might not be able to trade them because they'd refuse to report, which means you don't get anything and actually just flat out lose a player. I get that you don't care of those players are lost, but you're not gaining anything by getting rid of them for nothing.

and knowing who we are, this happens more often than not

 

[The Real JT]

It's honestly a really good way to put it. That said end of day there never seemed to be a cohesive plan, and the (lack of) results basically showed him to be a pretty poor GM.

And yet scarily enough I liken him to a more competent Milbury.

Franchises typically get stale over a number of years. What worked in year one and two doesn’t pan out several years later. Maybe the league catches up to you or maybe the players stop buying in.

It happens consistently with coaches like Torts and Mike Keenan and it makes sense that this may be true with GMs.

Time for a new approach. Just not Milbury.

 

[Osakahaus]

They might be able to offload Beau. Maybe. Bailey they will likely have to give an asset. Honestly both those guys should have been moved or waived by now. It has taken wayyyy too long and now is probably to late to save the season. Bailey played at least half the season on the top line. Plays on the PP. He has 6 goals (!)….but only -1 so great player for Lou.

Bailey is probably the best player that fits the exact 0 on a WAR model. He is essentially a replacement level player.

 

[periferal]

Of the things that Malkin might dislike about Lou, I doubt the guy who says absolutely nothing is upset about Lou's lack of messaging.

True, and that's also pretty concerning.

 

[Osakahaus]

feels like IB has said this the past 4 years. if lamoriello sees more uninspiring play, i would 100% have to see a trade to a team like colorado or dallas for Nelson. feels like those two are the only ones in play for him if they can't get someone like Monahan/Horvat

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

Varly and Mayfield could absolutely be dealt for like a 2nd round pick each (maybe Mayfield gets a drop more). The other assets...Little/no chance you could move them, even with salary retention.

So based on your setup...You obviously think Lou should be gone since Lou has NEVER traded a single roster player from the Isles unless he was forced to. So I don't think he's going to dump any players. In fact I'm scared (terrified) if we're within like 6-7 points of a playoff spot he might try to ADD at the deadline. 80 year old GMs don't do rebuilds, and they especially don't do them when every single move and comment he's made since taking over has been to try to win now.

Yes, I feel the same way and have little faith he will do the right thing either. I agree he probably is going to have a hard time moving any of the forwards, but zero excuses on not moving the expiring contracts of Varly or Mayfield.

I realize he doesnt have this mindset which is exactly why I do feel he should be fired if he fails to unload them. Both would likely still reach free-agency, so its not like he couldn't resign them in the offseason...

Sayonara, Lou

 

[periferal]

Franchises typically get stale over a number of years. What worked in year one and two doesn’t pan out several years later. Maybe the league catches up to you or maybe the players stop buying in.

It happens consistently with coaches like Torts and Mike Keenan and it makes sense that this may be true with GMs.

Time for a new approach. Just not Milbury.

I actually don't see it that way. If you just look at the last 20-30 years of the NHL coaches turn over way more than GMs do. Because coaches deal with players daily, and GMs could never be in the same room as the players all season, coaches can "lose" a player in a way that a GM wouldn't. And even if a GM (team) "lost" a player the GM could just trade them.

Seems to me we need to draw the line at what GMs are good at what they do and which ones aren't. Because I look at all the recent Cup winners and most all of them had pretty much 1 or maybe 2 GMs that stuck to a plan of building a core consisting of high draft picks.

Guys like Bergevin or Milbury who have some good assets in their franchise, but just keep swinging wildly like a kid at a piñata party, never seem to pan out and I'd argue aren't good GM's. I don't think it has to do with them being "stale" at all - I just think they don't know how to build a winner.

View attachment 642597
feels like IB has said this the past 4 years. if lamoriello sees more uninspiring play, i would 100% have to see a trade to a team like colorado or dallas for Nelson. feels like those two are the only ones in play for him if they can't get someone like Monahan/Horvat

Well I hope he's wrong, because I haven't enjoyed most of Lou's moves when he wasn't desperate.

 

[Osakahaus]

Yes, I feel the same way and have little faith he will do the right thing either. I agree he probably is going to have a hard time moving any of the forwards, but zero excuses on not moving the expiring contracts of Varly or Mayfield.

I realize he doesnt have this mindset which is exactly why I do feel he should be fired if he fails to unload them. Both would likely still reach free-agency, so its not like he couldn't resign them in the offseason...

Sayonara, Lou

Just saying, Pittsburgh is in some mighty need of a goalie, and Varly is on an expiring contract. i wouldn't mind giving the pens a goalie for a push and the isles to commit to a tank...

 

[periferal]

Yes, I feel the same way and have little faith he will do the right thing either. I agree he probably is going to have a hard time moving any of the forwards, but zero excuses on not moving the expiring contracts of Varly or Mayfield.

I realize he doesnt have this mindset which is exactly why I do feel he should be fired if he fails to unload them. Both would likely still reach free-agency, so its not like he couldn't resign them in the offseason...

Sayonara, Lou

I hear you, but I don't think Malkin (and especially Ledecky) share many fans views on Lou. I think they respect him a ton and maybe even have rose-colored glasses towards him.

Back when snow was GM I dug up all the articles/info/buzz that I could get on Ledecky/Malkin and seems that at least Ledecky literally visted every single NHL arena while coming up for the UBS plans. He also met with executives from many other (maybe all) teams to try and find a team president. I think this led them to have a good list of who they could/would hire and they settled on Lou.

Now I don't know if they've kept up with that list, but you can be sure ain't no single NHL employee campaigning for the Isles president/GM role as long as Lou has it. He would have to be fired first. And I'm very scared that Malkin/Ledecky are too up Lou's behind to do what is necessary when it's necessary (and it may have already been necessary).

I think things are going to get significantly worse for a long time before they get better...And I fear Lou is going to make them worse before he's removed (which I think wouldn't happen until 2024 the earliest).

 

[The Real JT]

Franchises typically get stale over a number of years. What worked in year one and two doesn’t pan out several years later. Maybe the league catches up to you or maybe the players stop buying in.

It happens consistently with coaches like Torts and Mike Keenan and it makes sense that this may be true with GMs.

Time for a new approach. Just not Milbury.

I actually don't see it that way. If you just look at the last 20-30 years of the NHL coaches turn over way more than GMs do. Because coaches deal with players daily, and GMs could never be in the same room as the players all season, coaches can "lose" a player in a way that a GM wouldn't. And even if a GM (team) "lost" a player the GM could just trade them.

Seems to me we need to draw the line at what GMs are good at what they do and which ones aren't. Because I look at all the recent Cup winners and most all of them had pretty much 1 or maybe 2 GMs that stuck to a plan of building a core consisting of high draft picks.

Guys like Bergevin or Milbury who have some good assets in their franchise, but just keep swinging wildly like a kid at a piñata party, never seem to pan out and I'd argue aren't good GM's. I don't think it has to do with them being "stale" at all - I just think they don't know how to build a winner.



Well I hope he's wrong, because I haven't enjoyed most of Lou's moves when he wasn't desperate.

Good points and I’ll meet you in the middle.

It’s easier for coaches to get stale vs GMs but I still see it as a potential problem.

The GM who relied on his trusted scouts and played by old school limited free agency rules might have more difficulty performing in an era with new free agency rules, players with a different mentality, new agents and scouts. If the GM has a solid skill set it’s a big leg up but eventually the day comes for all of us when it’s time for a new order to take over.

 

[Osakahaus]

Good points and I’ll meet you in the middle.

It’s easier for coaches to get stale vs GMs but I still see it as a potential problem.

The GM who relied on his trusted scouts and played by old school limited free agency rules might have more difficulty performing in an era with new free agency rules, players with a different mentality, new agents and scouts. If the GM has a solid skill set it’s a big leg up but eventually the day comes for all of us when it’s time for a new order to take over.

This is the other elephant in the room with Lou: He managed free agency like it was 2004. we only saw the Lee and Varlamov deals in 2019 because of the panarin deal blowing up in our face.

 

[duster19]

View attachment 642597
feels like IB has said this the past 4 years. if lamoriello sees more uninspiring play, i would 100% have to see a trade to a team like colorado or dallas for Nelson. feels like those two are the only ones in play for him if they can't get someone like Monahan/Horvat

It doesn’t really make sense to me. We don’t have much to give up that will cause a huge shakeup. Other then maybe Mayfield..unless we are dumping picks again.

 

[Osakahaus]

It doesn’t really make sense to me. We don’t have much to give up that will cause a huge shakeup. Other then maybe Mayfield..unless we are dumping picks again.

Chychrun is still my fear.

 

[WangMustGo]

View attachment 642597
feels like IB has said this the past 4 years

Id take this with a grain of salt

 

[Osakahaus]

Id take this with a grain of salt

like with everything he's said about the islanders, they don't come true.