Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[MJF]

Btw he’ll be 32 years old next month and has 5 years remaining at $2.5M/yr including this year. He’s good at the dot and on the PK but 4 goals and 9 assists in 49 games is flat out bad. You can blame the talent around him but the numbers speak volumes.

Cizikas still shows he can skate. Maybe if he stays at wing on one of the other 3 lines instead of centering TBFLIH his production might go up a bit. I think he's still capable.

 

[The Real JT]

Cizikias still shows he can skate. Maybe if he stays at wing on one of the other 3 lines instead of centering TBFLIH his production might go up a bit. I think he's still capable.

Agreed. His contract doesn’t affect us now and his play this year looks good on the ice but his lack of productivity is concerning.

I like his intensity which is sorely missing in many of his teammates. Problem is, with that type of game and his size, I could see a big drop off in play within the next few years. Again, at $2.5M/year we have bigger problems.

 

[PK Cronin]

these two sucked, but the fact that these idiots didn't try to sell Clutterbuck, Parise or even Mayfield at the time bothered me. Now we're at the exact same crossroads.

I always wonder if guys like Greene or Parise can completely dictate where they go because they just won't report otherwise. Parise has made so much money that he doesn't need to play anymore and if he isn't interested in going to a certain location he could just hang'em up.

 

[Mike C]

I always wonder if guys like Greene or Parise can completely dictate where they go because they just won't report otherwise. Parise has made so much money that he doesn't need to play anymore and if he isn't interested in going to a certain location he could just hang'em up.

If he wants to play next year, he can also just report to the new team for the stretch run then sign wherever he wants in off season

One thing I respect about Lou is that he asked Greene and Chara what they wanted to do. Seems like Lou wouldn't put a guy in a place he wasn't comfortable going.

I'm curious what, if anything, happens with him

 

[periferal]

I don't think anyone in the business would respect this.

The guy has been an assistant coach for ages and everybody in the business knew he was head coach material and was going to given that opportunity at some point. Lou goes out of his way to dismiss a hall of famer coach so as to give Lambert his shot.

After basically nothing is done to upgrade an non-playoff team save for moving a first rounder for a still developing 22-year old Dman, things sour big time at the end of a period where the top Dman has missed 20-some games and the team's two supposed "snipers" (Palmieri and Wahlstrom, results aside) are both out for almost as long, 28 of 29 games for Palmieri.

Fire the first-year coach in the midst of a 11-of-13 stretch of losing?

That would be a very bad take. We're kind of damned to ride this out with Lambert. And really, your move can't just be to chop the coach under these circumstances.

All of these are pretty fair points. However they don't take into account 2 very important things:

1. What if Trotz wanted to leave and he wasn't fired?​

2. Whatever the summation of reasons that culminated with Lambert being head coach, the ultimate decision was 100% made by Lou. So if Lambert was the wrong hire then Lou should suffer the consequences.​

And honestly...Who gives a rat's ass what anyone else "in the business" thinks? The owners/GM of the Islanders have a job to protect the franchise no matter what. Sure...Lambert could be the victim of injuries and any number of things beyond his control, but given how lifeless the players that are healthy are, that sure feels more like playing Devil's Advocate than looking at the evidence right in front of us.

I mean what if right now, both Lou and Ledecky/Malkin know that he's Lambert isn't going to work out. They should just keep him on because they should be more concerned with public perception than doing what's best for the Islanders? If any party did that then I wouldn't want them affiliated with the New York Islanders.

And if someone wants to make the argument that well maybe future coaches/players might not decide to come here because a long time assist coach was fired after only half a season into his first ever gig...I'd say, "Please." The Panthers literally left Gerard Gallant at the airport when they fired him (which was panned by basically the entire NHL community). Yet somehow after that they were to land Joel Quenneville.

The world of sports is littered with stories of nice guys being removed for more competent ones, and the more competent ones won more because no one cared. Mostly just chase the money.

If anyone has hesitations about coming to the Islanders, or dealing with them, you can be sure it wouldn't be because he fired Lambert - It would be because of the reputation Lou already has as being a franchise dictator for the last 30+ years.

As was often written at the beginning of this season, Lou's chosen path with this team "could work", but he was placing a lot of eggs in the basket of loyalty to, and belief in, the players this franchise did a lot of losing with last season - and winning with in the seasons before.

Theoretically, he should reap the rewards of their success or pay the price of their failure.

Well yes - Exactly. The team Lou assembled (or failed to assemble) is failing, and he should pay the price.

But even if the owners decide to move on from Lamoriello, who do they move on to? With a new GM comes a new culture and it'd be tough to go with a guy who has experience, yet failed elsewhere. And how fair would it be to, say, a hotshot newbie to follow in the footsteps of the Godfather.

So we can't fire Lou because...No matter who the Isles hire won't measure up? Maybe Malkin should take after wang and give Lou a "garth snow" lifetime contract. Then after Lou dies we won't officially replace him but rather we'll rehire Neil Smith and let him be co-GM with wang's ghost.

Being a GM in the NHL is both an honor and a rarity. There are only 32 of those positions in the world and I guarantee that many would be lining up to take the position if offer.

Now who would be qualified...? That's for Malkin and Ledecky to determine - Like they (rightly) determined that garth snow needed to be fired.

Obviously, it is hard to imagine that Lou would part with some of these stale pieces because he simply hasn't done that in his five years here at the helm, but we could be surprised. For all we know, he's very much in tune with "changing on the fly" so to speak right now in these troubling times.

He wasn't born yesterday. The pattern of personnel movement to date doesn't have to remain that way if it's clear that the team can only proceed to get better by changing up the mixture, however true he's remained to this mixture to date.

So Lou's recent work has been average at best, and quite bad at worst, but...We should "hope to be surprised" as opposed to holding him accountable? His non-stop banter about "believing in this group," and yet to only add Romanov in the offseason isn't nearly good enough on any level (and it's very bad that Romanov is bad and he gave up yet another 1st for him).

I truly appreciate the calm/diplomatic approach you have in all your posts, but sometimes it's plainly clear that things cannot continue as they have been. Maybe Lou just needs to stop with the veil of secrecy and share more. Maybe he needs to hire outside voices and take them into account. Or maybe Lou deserves to be fired.

I think this reply by Scott below really touches a nerve about what's going on...

 

[PK Cronin]

If he wants to play next year, he can also just report to the new team for the stretch run then sign wherever he wants in off season

One thing I respect about Lou is that he asked Greene and Chara what they wanted to do. Seems like Lou wouldn't put a guy in a place he wasn't comfortable going.

I'm curious what, if anything, happens with him

It just comes down to what they want at this point in their careers. Uprooting your family or simply not being with them for months on end is rough and some guys just don't want to do it at that point. Maybe the thought of winning a cup is more enticing and they'd go but it's really up to them because they don't need to keep playing.

 

[mm11]

Think the handwriting is on the wall for Lou. Let's see what the big fella (err little fella) does

 

[xECK29x]

All of these are pretty fair points. However they don't take into account 2 very important things:

1. What if Trotz wanted to leave and he wasn't fired?​

2. Whatever the summation of reasons that culminated with Lambert being head coach, the ultimate decision was 100% made by Lou. So if Lambert was the wrong hire then Lou should suffer the consequences.​

And honestly...Who gives a rat's ass what anyone else "in the business" thinks? The owners/GM of the Islanders have a job to protect the franchise no matter what. Sure...Lambert could be the victim of injuries and any number of things beyond his control, but given how lifeless the players that are healthy are, that sure feels more like playing Devil's Advocate than looking at the evidence right in front of us.

I mean what if right now, both Lou and Ledecky/Malkin know that he's Lambert isn't going to work out. They should just keep him on because they should be more concerned with public perception than doing what's best for the Islanders? If any party did that then I wouldn't want them affiliated with the New York Islanders.

And if someone wants to make the argument that well maybe future coaches/players might not decide to come here because a long time assist coach was fired after only half a season into his first ever gig...I'd say, "Please." The Panthers literally left Gerard Gallant at the airport when they fired him (which was panned by basically the entire NHL community). Yet somehow after that they were to land Joel Quenneville.

The world of sports is littered with stories of nice guys being removed for more competent ones, and the more competent ones won more because no one cared. Mostly just chase the money.

If anyone has hesitations about coming to the Islanders, or dealing with them, you can be sure it wouldn't be because he fired Lambert - It would be because of the reputation Lou already has as being a franchise dictator for the last 30+ years.




Well yes - Exactly. The team Lou assembled (or failed to assemble) is failing, and he should pay the price.




So we can't fire Lou because...No matter who the Isles hire won't measure up? Maybe Malkin should take after wang and give Lou a "garth snow" lifetime contract. Then after Lou dies we won't officially replace him but rather we'll rehire Neil Smith and let him be co-GM with wang's ghost.

Being a GM in the NHL is both an honor and a rarity. There are only 32 of those positions in the world and I guarantee that many would be lining up to take the position if offer.

Now who would be qualified...? That's for Malkin and Ledecky to determine - Like they (rightly) determined that garth snow needed to be fired.




So Lou's recent work has been average at best, and quite bad at worst, but...We should "hope to be surprised" as opposed to holding him accountable? His non-stop banter about "believing in this group," and yet to only add Romanov in the offseason isn't nearly good enough on any level (and it's very bad that Romanov is bad and he gave up yet another 1st for him).

I truly appreciate the calm/diplomatic approach you have in all your posts, but sometimes it's plainly clear that things cannot continue as they have been. Maybe Lou just needs to stop with the veil of secrecy and share more. Maybe he needs to hire outside voices and take them into account. Or maybe Lou deserves to be fired.

I think this reply by Scott below really touches a nerve about what's going on...

[not directed at you but the Twitter account]

When you compare the ownership of an NHL hockey team to that of a dictatorship I think you have entirely lost the plot and need to go out and touch some grass.

 

[Osakahaus]

I always wonder if guys like Greene or Parise can completely dictate where they go because they just won't report otherwise. Parise has made so much money that he doesn't need to play anymore and if he isn't interested in going to a certain location he could just hang'em up.

Parise genuinely could retire by tomorrow and I would only miss him for penalty killing. Greene was awful last season. He also didn't need to play almost every game, but he did.

 

[doublechili]

[not directed at you but the Twitter account]

When you compare the ownership of an NHL hockey team to that of a dictatorship I think you have entirely lost the plot and need to go out and touch some grass.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Not like that

But being smart with trades! we need that!

Sure. I mean, everyone wants smart trades. And they're pretty rare...

 

[Top Corner]

Burgerman was genuinely the best damn man to wheel and deal, and most of his trades worked. i'd be in for his wild ride more than Lou's.

Seriously that man was able to fleece some teams. Bergevins biggest problem however is that he really just gambled a ton on players, but in no way did bergevin forget to get skill players for his team.

He was certainly better in the 2nd half of his GM career but always seemed to not have a vision of what he wanted the final on ice product to be. This could have also been too much
micro-management within the Molson Group influenced by the fans. I got the feeling that he wasn't on board with the PK signing $ and seemed to be pushed into getting it done.

 

[Osakahaus]

He was certainly better in the 2nd half of his GM career but always seemed to not have a vision of what he wanted the final on ice product to be. This could have also been too much
micro-management within the Molson Group influenced by the fans. I got the feeling that he wasn't on board with the PK signing $ and seemed to be pushed into getting it done.

The best way to describe Bergevin is that he's a really...abstract artist. Sometimes he's an absolute clown, but othertimes he will strike gold. He made out like a bandit to get Suzuki and Tatar.

 

[LAIslanderFan]

At this point, I don't believe this is a quick fix or turn around, especially considering their cap space.
Bailey, Martin, Clutterbuck and Beauvillier all come of the books at the end of the 2023-2024 season.
Of that group, Beauvillier probably has the only trade value. Based on that, the Isles should try and plan their rebuild around those expiring contracts. The Isles need to start making trades for draft picks and prospects with the idea of loading up on draft picks this year (2023), 2024 and 2025, and target the 2025 season as their "rebound" season. This can't be done piecemeal.

I honestly don't think Lou is the GM to accomplish this. He did his job, stabilizing the organization and bringing it some respect, but what lies ahead requires more of a dynamic GM. First order of business would be for Ledecky to ask Lou to step back and become more of an advisor and to go out in front of the fans, admit the team is no longer competitive and ask for a little patience as the Isles work on a rebuild for the long term not the short term.

Start the process by being sellers at the trade deadline. I think they can get fairly good returns on Varly, Beau, Mayfield and Pulock (you might have to retain some of his salary), and a decent return for Parise as well. For those of you who are going to suggest trading Bailey, he has no trade value and no team would have any interest. The alternative idea of going up against the cap and spending money on a high value free agent, will just delay the process. One player won't turn this around and it will take even longer to free up cap space.

If the Isles retain Lou, or they bring in a new GM that talks about turning this around for next year, they've got the wrong person for the job. No serious GM should think this is a one year fix! A good GM will look at this roster and know that it's going to take 2, probably 3 years to get this team competitive and to reinvigorate the prospect pool. At that point the Isles should have a lot more cap space as well, so they can start to mix their prospects with high end NHL talent.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

At the deadline, you absolutely have to be active.

Varlamov (UFA)
Mayfield (UFA)
Bailey (1 year left at $5 million, 3.5 million cash)
Beauvillier (1 year left at $4.15 million)
Martin (1 year left at $1.5 million)

Clutterbuck (1 year left at 1,75 will be near impossible to move since he is hurt)

No excuses for him not to trade as many of these as possible.

Failure to do so should have Lou gone, and I would argue he needs to be gone regardless. Time to tear this down and try to build around the 5-6 good players and few prospects we do have.

 

[Osakahaus]

At the deadline, you absolutely have to be active.

Varlamov (UFA)
Mayfield (UFA)
Bailey (1 year left at $5 million, 3.5 million cash)
Beauvillier (1 year left at $4.15 million)
Martin (1 year left at $1.5 million)

Clutterbuck (1 year left at 1,75 will be near impossible to move since he is hurt)

No excuses for him not to trade as many of these as possible.

Failure to do so should have Lou gone, and I would argue he needs to be gone regardless. Time to tear this down and try to build around the 5-6 good players and few prospects we do have.

Just one or two of these trades would help. But our problem? at least half of these guys are negative assets. Nobody will want Bailey, or Martin, or even Beau.

 

[Mike C]

Think the handwriting is on the wall for Lou. Let's see what the big fella (err little fella) does

or fails to do right double m?

how'd the outing go yesterday??

 

[mm11]

or fails to do right double m?

how'd the outing go yesterday??

sloppy rainy mess but was fun. Got to show off my Long Island accent to the locals

 

[Mike C]

sloppy rainy mess but was fun. Got to show off my Long Island accent to the locals

cool!.....the brooklyn is still in me too....comes out every now and then (or when i need it!!)

Parise genuinely could retire by tomorrow and I would only miss him for penalty killing. Greene was awful last season. He also didn't need to play almost every game, but he did.

i would miis his hustle, defense, hockey IQ and leadership by example

 

[Osakahaus]

cool!.....the brooklyn is still in me too....comes out every now and then (or when i need it!!)


i would miis his hustle, defense, hockey IQ and leadership by example

Yes, i get the missing of his hustle, defense, etc

problem is that we have too MUCH of that.

 

[Mike C]

Yes, i get the missing of his hustle, defense, etc

problem is that we have too MUCH of that.

maybe i should have said effective, efficient and consistant in those regards which i feel we don't have enough of

 

[Top Corner]

The best way to describe Bergevin is that he's a really...abstract artist. Sometimes he's an absolute clown, but othertimes he will strike gold. He made out like a bandit to get Suzuki and Tatar.

Suzuki and Tatar & 2nd , was a considerable haul for Pacioretty and with Suzuki turning out to be a star ends up certainly being a steal

 

[periferal]

[not directed at you but the Twitter account]

When you compare the ownership of an NHL hockey team to that of a dictatorship I think you have entirely lost the plot and need to go out and touch some grass.

A few things here...

1. After all that I wrote in that post that you're solely focusing on just the Tweet is interesting.​

​

2. The Tweet is a metaphor. He also mentions cereal, which is pretty much counter-serious to his overdramatic use of "dictatorship." Don't get so caught up in the visuals to miss the point that...Lou has total control over the direction of this franchise right down to the messaging (or lack thereof) that is put out. And that might be ok if the product wasn't so broken right now. Thus he should be questioned at minimum by Malkin, perhaps have some power removed, and maybe even removed himself.​

​

3. End of day we're all posting on a hockey message board. Again...A hockey. Message. Board. Some of us are too serious, some too childish, but end of day we should all be out touching grass.​

 

[Fist of Fury]

The fact that we passed on Tolvanen & Kostin, both players with potential. Our organization probably knew nothing about them, just checked their stats. Not sure I even care what they do on trade deadline, I expect nothing.

 

[periferal]

The best way to describe Bergevin is that he's a really...abstract artist. Sometimes he's an absolute clown, but othertimes he will strike gold. He made out like a bandit to get Suzuki and Tatar.

It's honestly a really good way to put it. That said end of day there never seemed to be a cohesive plan, and the (lack of) results basically showed him to be a pretty poor GM.

And yet scarily enough I liken him to a more competent Milbury.