Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[IslesNorway]

Rare Dan Friedman W. I really think the biggest fault of this team was the Palmieri trade. Even though he was good during that playoff run, they needed to shoot higher.

There is a whole lot of truth in this. Lou failed when the cup was within his grasp. Too much loyalty shown to the players, getting pressed against the cap ceiling and simply misjudging the need to for speed and goalscoring in the modern NHL has brought about this core's end.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

"Goose egg" at the trade deadline would probably be the best possible outcome given that Lou would probably use yet another 1st rounder (in the best draft in years) as duct tape on the Titanic.

I dunno about the best possible outcome, but the more I've thought about it, the more I'm inclined to think that - in light of this season's development on the tail of the last offseason and last season in general - the one thing Lou can't really do is "nothing". He cannot just stay the course.

At least I can't imagine most ownership around the league seeing that as an option.

He can either bring this franchise forward with a big move (if it's the right move) or he can look to bring it forward by being a seller and perhaps making a "hockey trade" (established NHL player for established NHL player) along the way.

But staying the course with this group as is, regardless of injury situations, shouldn't really be an option.

This all said, "goose egg" is as likely an outcome as any right now.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Add it all up and to me it seems clear what should happen...

1. Lambert must be fired/replaced with a competent coach.

I don't think anyone in the business would respect this.

The guy has been an assistant coach for ages and everybody in the business knew he was head coach material and was going to given that opportunity at some point. Lou goes out of his way to dismiss a hall of famer coach so as to give Lambert his shot.

After basically nothing is done to upgrade an non-playoff team save for moving a first rounder for a still developing 22-year old Dman, things sour big time at the end of a period where the top Dman has missed 20-some games and the team's two supposed "snipers" (Palmieri and Wahlstrom, results aside) are both out for almost as long, 28 of 29 games for Palmieri.

Fire the first-year coach in the midst of a 11-of-13 stretch of losing?

That would be a very bad take. We're kind of damned to ride this out with Lambert. And really, your move can't just be to chop the coach under these circumstances.

2. Lou should probably go as well.

As was often written at the beginning of this season, Lou's chosen path with this team "could work", but he was placing a lot of eggs in the basket of loyalty to, and belief in, the players this franchise did a lot of losing with last season - and winning with in the seasons before.

Theoretically, he should reap the rewards of their success or pay the price of their failure.

But even if the owners decide to move on from Lamoriello, who do they move on to? With a new GM comes a new culture and it'd be tough to go with a guy who has experience, yet failed elsewhere. And how fair would it be to, say, a hotshot newbie to follow in the footsteps of the Godfather.

3. Those players approaching 30 or older that have any value should probably be traded while they still have some.

There are any number of possibilities for movement for a good handful of players on this team, especially if one is open to selling somewhat low so as to gain roster spots. If you decide to part ways with a few of the guys in their prime, say a Nelson and Pulock (although his utter lack of offense has surely placed him in another light for the pro scouts out there), then you're going in another direction - and there's considerable risk, or reward, in that.

There are a lot of good pieces here. There are a few guys who have become very stale.

Obviously, it is hard to imagine that Lou would part with some of these stale pieces because he simply hasn't done that in his five years here at the helm, but we could be surprised. For all we know, he's very much in tune with "changing on the fly" so to speak right now in these troubling times.

He wasn't born yesterday. The pattern of personnel movement to date doesn't have to remain that way if it's clear that the team can only proceed to get better by changing up the mixture, however true he's remained to this mixture to date.

 

[YearlyLottery]

One thing the Islanders are going to need during this retool process is a little bit of luck. In order to have a sustained drive like Colorado, Pittsburgh, and Washington they are going to need to grab an elite forward to pair with Dobson, Sorokin, and Barzal for the foreseeable future.

 

[The Real JT]

Let’s look at the goose egg theory. We do nothing at the TDL.

That makes no sense for Mayfield and Varly unless we assume that Lou resigns them. That will take up the majority of future available cap space and make us older. Our remaining options will be making an offseason hockey trade involving someone like Nelson, JGP or Wally. Flipping Bailey will cost us and Beau likely has net zero value.

Does that make us a playoff contender next season? I think not. In my mind it’s better to flip our UFAs at the TDL. Building our prospect pool doesn’t happen with one draft so Lou (or whoever) should accumulate assets whenever he can.

 

[saintunspecified]

It's a ridiculous expectation that no other profession really has, outside of politics I guess. Their medical issues are private matters unless they want that information disclosed. If there's any chance it could hurt them later, whether physically or financially, it'd be dumb to disclose it. Just because some leagues or players do doesn't mean it's right for everyone to do that.

I don't see how paying top dollar to go to games gives anyone the right to another person's medical history. They give enough information to fans via the "upper body" and "lower body" statements along with "day to day, week to week, long term, etc." that it should suffice.

Yes, all of this.

Also, I think it's fair to treat the demand for more detailed information as something coming from gamblers/people who make money off of gambling. I think it's smart for hockey ops people to insulate their employees (players, and staff) from those demands.

 

[crashthenet]

If I were Buffalo or NJ I would be poking around on Parise. He is extremely reliable and still has some jump.

I would also attach Beau to Mayfield to get rid of his contract. What he brings is available for about 50% of what he makes.

Bailey Buyout.

Aho is exactly the type of player I cant stand so adios.

Resign Varly.

Clutter seems destined for LITR.

What does that leave you with?

Pelech - Pulock
Romanov - Dobson
Bolduc, Salo, and?

Barzal, Nelson, Lee, Plamieri, Wahlstrom, Homstrom, JGP, Zeke, Martin, Ross and Raty.

Puts you at about 60mil with the buyout, without Varly, Wahlstrom and Bolduc. Considering Bailey's actual vs caphit maybe he can be moved.

Just spitballin.

 

[Big L]

What does that leave you with?

Pelech - Pulock
Romanov - Dobson
Bolduc, Salo, and?

Which is why you don’t get rid of mayfield.

 

[Mike C]

Yes, all of this.

Also, I think it's fair to treat the demand for more detailed information as something coming from gamblers/people who make money off of gambling. I think it's smart for hockey ops people to insulate their employees (players, and staff) from those demands.

If the NHL is going to continue to further and foster relationships with gambling entities, and take their sponsorship dollars, it's the piper calling the tune that will make the demand not the people betting their 25 bucks

 

[MJF]

The problem is that Lou genuinely didn't do much. this is a bigger problem than just "HA, I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG!", because he wasn't able to do anything.

For me there were 4 Red Flag moments during Lou's tenure here.

1. When Artemi Panarin spurned our offer and took less money to play for the Rags.

2. The summer of 2021, leading up to the opening of UBS Arena, Lou was unable to upgrade the roster.

3. Lou was not a seller at the 2022 TDL and gave a vote of confidence to this roster.

4. Lou fired Barry Trotz.

Looking back at the first 2 red flags I can't give Lou total blame for those. Lou was in on trying to get some high end talent for the team, but you can't force free agents to take our money. Rather, these are sobering reminders that the Islanders still aren't a destination on for many UFAs. Even though the franchise is no longer a threat to relocate, this will probably not get fixed anytime soon.

The last 2 red flags are just flat-out misjudgments by Lou. He has to recognize what he has in the room and behind the bench, and what the rest of the league has. Lou didn't react, and in some cases doubled down on guys (the signings of Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Martin) he should have let walk as far back as 2019.

Going forward I think it would be better for the team if Lou were to simply retire as both GM and President. The organization needs a new voice in the executive suite.

 

[MJF]

The guy has been an assistant coach for ages and everybody in the business knew he was head coach material and was going to given that opportunity at some point. Lou goes out of his way to dismiss a hall of famer coach so as to give Lambert his shot.

Lambert interviewed 2 (or was it 3) times for head coaching jobs before Lou hired him. I don't know if he doesn't interview well or if the other teams already had someone else in mind, but after being a bridesmaid twice I can't say it was any foregone conclusion that Lambert was going to be so sought after.

 

[Osakahaus]

3. Lou was not a seller at the 2022 TDL and gave a vote of confidence to this roster.
4. Lou fired Barry Trotz.

these two sucked, but the fact that these idiots didn't try to sell Clutterbuck, Parise or even Mayfield at the time bothered me. Now we're at the exact same crossroads.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Googling his wikipedia page wasn’t necessary, was hoping for a more inspiring case to be made that he should be promoted but thank you.

You're welcome.

To clarify, I wasn't building any case. Nor did I say he should be promoted. I'm just pointing out that the next logical step for him, in his career, is to be GM of an NHL team. And it shouldn't come as any surprise if it does happen. I'm also pointing out that you people wouldn't say boo if he had a different last name. This wouldn't be the backup goalie taking off his pads and going straight into the GM's office. So I'd have an open mind and form an opinion based on how well his team performs. Same as I would for any new GM. In fact, I may be a little more excited about a a first-time GM (with experience) at the helm rather than a retread. Feeling challenged and maybe a bit overwhelmed are good motivators.

But I guess since it's Lou's son therefore there is nepotism therefore he must suck. Whatever...

 

[Osakahaus]

You're welcome.

To clarify, I wasn't building any case. Nor did I say he should be promoted. I'm just pointing out that the next logical step for him, in his career, is to be GM of an NHL team. And it shouldn't come as any surprise if it does happen. I'm also pointing out that you people wouldn't say boo if he had a different last name. This wouldn't be the backup goalie taking off his pads and going straight into the GM's office. So I'd have an open mind and form an opinion based on how well his team performs. Same as I would for any new GM. In fact, I may be a little more excited about a a first-time GM (with experience) at the helm rather than a retread. Feeling challenged and maybe a bit overwhelmed are good motivators.

But I guess since it's Lou's son therefore there is nepotism therefore he must suck. Whatever...

just someone who knows how to wheel and deal, we need that! thats the only way we get players ffs

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Nepotism baby. It's the only reason some kids have anything

You have no idea that that is the case here. And are just jumping to conclusions.

 

[Mike C]

You have no idea that that is the case here. And are just jumping to conclusions.

i was just joking around with my pal periferal. i don't know how the guy got his job and really deep down don't care

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

We have a BINGO!

 

[Doshell Propivo]

just someone who knows how to wheel and deal, we need that! thats the only way we get players ffs

I believe Milbury is available.

 

[Mike C]

Lambert interviewed 2 (or was it 3) times for head coaching jobs before Lou hired him. I don't know if he doesn't interview well or if the other teams already had someone else in mind, but after being a bridesmaid twice I can't say it was any foregone conclusion that Lambert was going to be so sought after.

and even if some other team got him, who gives a shit? keeping this guy at the expense of Barry was foolhardy. i'm sure Barry has enough cache around coaching circles that he could have procured another suitable assistant

 

[Osakahaus]

I believe Milbury is available.

Not like that

But being smart with trades! we need that!

 

[MJF]

and even if some other team got him, who gives a shit? keeping this guy at the expense of Barry was foolhardy. i'm sure Barry has enough cache around coaching circles that he could have procured another suitable assistant

Exactly. Lambert gets hired by Detroit? Good for him. Who cares!

 

[Chardo]

Shame of it is, despite all the flaws, if they had even an average PP, they'd be in playoff position.

 

[SCMURRAY]

They lose these next 2 and we're a bottom 10 team. Stick a fork in them. Sell the UFAs.

 

[The Real JT]

1. When Artemi Panarin spurned our offer and took less money to play for the Rags.

2. The summer of 2021, leading up to the opening of UBS Arena, Lou was unable to upgrade the roster.

3. Lou was not a seller at the 2022 TDL and gave a vote of confidence to this roster.

4. Lou fired Barry Trotz.

Looking back at the first 2 red flags I can't give Lou total blame for those. Lou was in on trying to get some high end talent for the team, but you can't force free agents to take our money. Rather, these are sobering reminders that the Islanders still aren't a destination on for many UFAs. Even though the franchise is no longer a threat to relocate, this will probably not get fixed anytime soon.

The last 2 red flags are just flat-out misjudgments by Lou. He has to recognize what he has in the room and behind the bench, and what the rest of the league has. Lou didn't react, and in some cases doubled down on guys (the signings of Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Martin) he should have let walk as far back as 2019.

Going forward I think it would be better for the team if Lou were to simply retire as both GM and President. The organization needs a new voice in the executive suite.

Signing the once feared best fourth line in hockey to new contracts was a big misstep but certainly not one that couldn’t be overcome with other smarter and more consequential moves.

The Cizikas long drawn out deal will hurt the least in the short term but long term it may be the worst.

Btw he’ll be 32 years old next month and has 5 years remaining at $2.5M/yr including this year. He’s good at the dot and on the PK but 4 goals and 9 assists in 49 games is flat out bad. You can blame the talent around him but the numbers speak volumes.

Again, not a huge AAV deal but a misguided one nonetheless.

 

[beach]

i was just joking around with my pal periferal. i don't know how the guy got his job and really deep down don't care

Of course there is an element of nepotism. Even if the son is skilled, how did he get a foot in the door on an NHL level? 99% probability that opportunities came via his dad's name/influence.