Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Lame Lambert]

People loved when he first got here because he was less friendly than Staple, now they don't like him because he's less friendly.



I think it depends on what the role is. I'm not interested in him being President but really pulling all the strings. If he's just there as more of a mentor and/or guiding hand on how to handle situations I'd be okay. Not sure he'd accept that though.

He needs to get the Sandy Alderson treatment. I just don’t think our ownership is as involved as Steve to manage that properly.

 

[duster19]

As long as the owners do ‘t do something half way like kick Lou upstairs. If he gets removed as GM he has to leave the organization. I don’t want him setting the framework for his replacement.

I agree. The vision is wrong. You can’t win in the NHL with grinders. This goal differential thing is dumb. It is an excuse for having a team without any firepower. Leaves no margins for errors. Wears down the players. Promotes injuries. And frankly I think the players hate it and that is the number one reason we see such disappointing effort.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I think that when Lou leaves his post as GM it will be a mutual decision. And one that is likely pre-determined already. I have a hard time believing that ownership would blind side Lou and fire him. I understand that this is the pro sports business and shit happens but I think that Ledecky and Malkin committed to Lou for a period of time, and vice-versa. And both will honor that.

And I think it is HIGHLY likely that Chris L. will be the new GM. As for Lou... I think he's going to be consiglieri. That's a, like a counselor, an advisor. Very important for the family.

 

[xECK29x]

As long as the owners do ‘t do something half way like kick Lou upstairs. If he gets removed as GM he has to leave the organization. I don’t want him setting the framework for his replacement.

Lou is the President and GM he already upstairs.

 

[PK Cronin]

I agree. The vision is wrong. You can’t win in the NHL with grinders. This goal differential thing is dumb. It is an excuse for having a team without any firepower. Leaves no margins for errors. Wears down the players. Promotes injuries. And frankly I think the players hate it and that is the number one reason we see such disappointing effort.

I'm a big believer in goal differential and grinding hockey, but I also believe you need the talent to get you over the hump in certain spots. The Kings when they won their cups had the perfect balance and I've always wanted the Islanders to be similar to those teams. They went out and got Carter for the first run because they needed more scoring, then they went and got Gaborik on the second run because they needed more scoring. Those guys were game breaking talents that could be the best player on the ice on any given night, required specific match ups from the opposition to handle their talent, and just need a chance or two to put the puck in the back of the net.

The Islanders have struggled to get those types of pieces to put them over the top and only Barzal has ever been capable of taking over a game.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

It is easy to overreact when a team has reached its bottom, and let's be honest that is where the Islanders currently are. It really wasn't hard to see this happen.

Lou did nothing really in the offseason (except trade another 1st rounder for what looks like a career 3rd pairing d-man) except go with status quo and here we are.

Truth is, this is not a team that can withstand injuries like most NHL teams can and we absolutely had to have our wingers that we do have step up, specifically Wahlstrom, Beauvillier and Palmieri.

Oliver has now missed 16 games and counting and we are 4-9-3 without him, although he wasn't doing too much when he was in there (7-9-16, although I do still question the 12:10 ice time allotted to him when we need his shot so bad).

There was hope for Kyle based on his second half last season, but he too has been a major disappointment (6-5-11) and can't stay on the ice (missed 27 of possible 50 games).

And then you have Anthony who has 1 goal in his last 12 games, his second such drought this season and we can calmly say now is nothing more than a 20 goal, 40 point producing forward, which are a dime a dozen in the NHL. His pedestrian 8.2% shooting is right in line with his awful 7.8% mark last season and his power-play production is a mind-boggling 0-0-0 with 68 minutes of ice time.

Couple all that with the fact that Nelson (12.7%) is shooting way under his 22% from last season and the lowest percentage he has had in 6 years, Lee 5 points lower than last season and also under 13% (12.6) and Barzal barely topping his career-low percentage of 9.3 from last season (9.6). Even Pageau, whose minutes are way up is only shooting 10.8% after an Islanders career mark of 16.7 before this season began. All of them UNDERPERFORMING at the same damn time.

I don't even want to talk about Josh Bailey. I just wait for his actual shots total column to be under his game column before someone realizes he has no business whatsoever being on one of the top two lines anymore.

Of course the biggest kryptonite has been the loss of Adam Pelech. We were 7-9-5 while he was out and we simply couldn't replace him, no matter who else we put in there.

This season is lost and Lou needs to start trading anyone not named Barzal, Dobson, Pelech and Sorokin.

Time to start over....like yesterday.

 

[The Real JT]

I wasn't intending to gain favor, it's so outlandish to me that I think it's crazy and I'm not sure how we've gotten to this place where people feel entitled to that information.

You provided no basis for your belief other than the NFL does it, which isn't a sound argument at all, and that you think it's different than other medical issues for some reason. There's nothing else there.

I'm open and interested in why you think how you do, but right now I think it's a nutty stance with jello legs that I've never seen substantiated in any way. It's also cool if you're not interested. I don't think you're crazy, I just don't like how common this view has become in sports.

I’ll engage you since you requested it even at the risk of boring all of us to death.

I have no right to any of this information, that’s true. You want to call it a violation of HIPAA, go ahead but that’s a remarkable stretch for me.

I draw a distinction between an orthopedic injury and a general medical condition. You don’t. We disagree but you needn’t feel indignant that a fan would be interested in this information. I am interested in the player’s injury not due to morbid curiosity but because I’m a fan, a paying fan, and I want to know the prospects of my team and their players going forward. Without this knowledge, I’m less interested in the product.

The craziest thing about this whole discussion is that as @Mike C pointed out, this information will likely become public due to legalized gambling.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I'm a big believer in goal differential and grinding hockey, but I also believe you need the talent to get you over the hump in certain spots. The Kings when they won their cups had the perfect balance and I've always wanted the Islanders to be similar to those teams. They went out and got Carter for the first run because they needed more scoring, then they went and got Gaborik on the second run because they needed more scoring. Those guys were game breaking talents that could be the best player on the ice on any given night, required specific match ups from the opposition to handle their talent, and just need a chance or two to put the puck in the back of the net.

The Islanders have struggled to get those types of pieces to put them over the top and only Barzal has ever been capable of taking over a game.

Trotz and Lou and ownership have all acknowledged they needed more scoring. I'm not making excuses but I don't think it's accurate to say that the strategy is and always was to ice Barzal and a bunch of grinders. They failed to acquire more high-end skill (and shame on them) but you gotta play the cards you're dealt. Obviously there are more 2nd/3rd liners available than true 1st liners...

I'm coming around to the fact that Lou (and Trotz) squeezed all they could out of this core. 2 back to back semi final appearances ain't too shabby. Ultimately, they couldn't get that game-breaking talent to get them to true elite status. Time to move on I guess. So it goes.

 

[The Real JT]

My hunch is that Lou is on a short leash. He could be fired at any time and maybe we have a new GM next week. But if it's true that he's in the last year of his contract he's a bit of a lame duck and ownership may be letting him run things out with "the group" that he put together. If the results aren't there, they'll let him go and team will have a new GM (not Chris L) and a new coach next season. But I wonder if Lou is free to trade a 1st round pick for a player at this point without running it by ownership?

Be still my heart.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I’ll engage you since you requested it even at the risk of boring all of us to death.

I have no right to any of this information, that’s true. You want to call it a violation of HIPAA, go ahead but that’s a remarkable stretch for me.

I draw a distinction between an orthopedic injury and a general medical condition. You don’t. We disagree but you needn’t feel indignant that a fan would be interested in this information. I am interested in the player’s injury not due to morbid curiosity but because I’m a fan, a paying fan, and I want to know the prospects of my team and their players going forward. Without this knowledge, I’m less interested in the product.

The craziest thing about this whole discussion is that as @Mike C pointed out, this information will likely become public due to legalized gambling.

Again I believe the NHLPA wants this information guarded because it potentially weakens their position when negotiating contracts with owners. And if the NHLPA will share in the profits from gambling revenue, then there will be a much bigger incentive for them to allow injury details to be disclosed.

 

[PK Cronin]

I’ll engage you since you requested it even at the risk of boring all of us to death.

I say do it!

I have no right to any of this information, that’s true. You want to call it a violation of HIPAA, go ahead but that’s a remarkable stretch for me.

I don't think I'd call it a HIPAA violation. Sports teams aren't medical providers or in the medical field so I don't think they fit.

I draw a distinction between an orthopedic injury and a general medical condition. You don’t. We disagree but you needn’t feel indignant that a fan would be interested in this information. I am interested in the player’s injury not due to morbid curiosity but because I’m a fan, a paying fan, and I want to know the prospects of my team and their players going forward. Without this knowledge, I’m less interested in the product.

I did say I am also interested. I think it's valuable information when it comes to fantasy sports, gambling, evaluating roster decisions, etc., I just don't think we're entitled to it.

The craziest thing about this whole discussion is that as @Mike C pointed out, this information will likely become public due to legalized gambling.

I agree this will happen, I just don't agree that it necessarily should.


To make a very extreme exaggeration, it feels like saying I'm a paying customer at a Dunkin' Donuts so I deserve to know the medical history of the manager to see if she can do an adequate job. Obviously there isn't fantasy donuts or donut gambling (at least as far as I'm aware), but the fact that there are activities built around the sport doesn't mean the sport should change to help those activities. It could be beneficial, for sure, but I don't think players or teams should be obligated to provide that information because a customer thinks they're entitled to it.

 

[Osakahaus]

He needs to get the Sandy Alderson treatment. I just don’t think our ownership is as involved as Steve to manage that properly.

I wish hockey had the same way of thinking as baseball, but it don't work like that.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I say do it!



I don't think I'd call it a HIPAA violation. Sports teams aren't medical providers or in the medical field so I don't think they fit.



I did say I am also interested. I think it's valuable information when it comes to fantasy sports, gambling, evaluating roster decisions, etc., I just don't think we're entitled to it.



I agree this will happen, I just don't agree that it necessarily should.


To make a very extreme exaggeration, it feels like saying I'm a paying customer at a Dunkin' Donuts so I deserve to know the medical history of the manager to see if she can do an adequate job. Obviously there isn't fantasy donuts or donut gambling (at least as far as I'm aware), but the fact that there are activities built around the sport doesn't mean the sport should change to help those activities. It could be beneficial, for sure, but I don't think players or teams should be obligated to provide that information because a customer thinks they're entitled to it.

I'd be more interested in the mental history of the Dunkin Donuts manager.

 

[Osakahaus]

It is easy to overreact when a team has reached its bottom, and let's be honest that is where the Islanders currently are. It really wasn't hard to see this happen.

Lou did nothing really in the offseason (except trade another 1st rounder for what looks like a career 3rd pairing d-man) except go with status quo and here we are.

Truth is, this is not a team that can withstand injuries like most NHL teams can and we absolutely had to have our wingers that we do have step up, specifically Wahlstrom, Beauvillier and Palmieri.

Oliver has now missed 16 games and counting and we are 4-9-3 without him, although he wasn't doing too much when he was in there (7-9-16, although I do still question the 12:10 ice time allotted to him when we need his shot so bad).

There was hope for Kyle based on his second half last season, but he too has been a major disappointment (6-5-11) and can't stay on the ice (missed 27 of possible 50 games).

And then you have Anthony who has 1 goal in his last 12 games, his second such drought this season and we can calmly say now is nothing more than a 20 goal, 40 point producing forward, which are a dime a dozen in the NHL. His pedestrian 8.2% shooting is right in line with his awful 7.8% mark last season and his power-play production is a mind-boggling 0-0-0 with 68 minutes of ice time.

Couple all that with the fact that Nelson (12.7%) is shooting way under his 22% from last season and the lowest percentage he has had in 6 years, Lee 5 points lower than last season and also under 13% (12.6) and Barzal barely topping his career-low percentage of 9.3 from last season (9.6). Even Pageau, whose minutes are way up is only shooting 10.8% after an Islanders career mark of 16.7 before this season began. All of them UNDERPERFORMING at the same damn time.

I don't even want to talk about Josh Bailey. I just wait for his actual shots total column to be under his game column before someone realizes he has no business whatsoever being on one of the top two lines anymore.

Of course the biggest kryptonite has been the loss of Adam Pelech. We were 7-9-5 while he was out and we simply couldn't replace him, no matter who else we put in there.

This season is lost and Lou needs to start trading anyone not named Barzal, Dobson, Pelech and Sorokin.

Time to start over....like yesterday.

Its absolutely weird knowing that this team is also built with no real backing support. the moment someone like Pelech or Palmieri or Wahlstrom goes down, things take a very bad turn. Repeating what some people have said in the thread, Trotz and Lou certainly understand that this team needs scoring. Problem is that nothing happened

On a similar note, losing guys like Toews and Eberle has hurt, especially when you consider how good seattle is right now.

 

[doublechili]

Be still my heart.

That "he may be fired next week" was really just a way to say we don't know what's going on behind the scenes rather than a prediction. If I had to put money on it I would say the more likely result, assuming they don't right the ship and assuming Lou leaves, is a mutual parting of the ways after the season.

 

[Mike C]

Trotz and Lou and ownership have all acknowledged they needed more scoring. I'm not making excuses but I don't think it's accurate to say that the strategy is and always was to ice Barzal and a bunch of grinders. They failed to acquire more high-end skill (and shame on them) but you gotta play the cards you're dealt. Obviously there are more 2nd/3rd liners available than true 1st liners...

I'm coming around to the fact that Lou (and Trotz) squeezed all they could out of this core. 2 back to back semi final appearances ain't too shabby. Ultimately, they couldn't get that game-breaking talent to get them to true elite status. Time to move on I guess. So it goes.

when Lou is dealing the cards and taking responsibility for the hand and i'm looking at the 3 of clubs and the 9 of diamonds knowing full well that the odds of this becoming anything winnable is miniscule if not impossible, I might think about investigating playing with another dealer

 

[Mike C]

I say do it!



I don't think I'd call it a HIPAA violation. Sports teams aren't medical providers or in the medical field so I don't think they fit.



I did say I am also interested. I think it's valuable information when it comes to fantasy sports, gambling, evaluating roster decisions, etc., I just don't think we're entitled to it.



I agree this will happen, I just don't agree that it necessarily should.


To make a very extreme exaggeration, it feels like saying I'm a paying customer at a Dunkin' Donuts so I deserve to know the medical history of the manager to see if she can do an adequate job. Obviously there isn't fantasy donuts or donut gambling (at least as far as I'm aware), but the fact that there are activities built around the sport doesn't mean the sport should change to help those activities. It could be beneficial, for sure, but I don't think players or teams should be obligated to provide that information because a customer thinks they're entitled to it.

if you ever get down my way, we can "fetch" ourselves some coffee and get down to some fantasy donut round robins!!

 

[The Real JT]

when Lou is dealing the cards and taking responsibility for the hand and i'm looking at the 3 of clubs and the 9 of diamonds knowing full well that the odds of this becoming anything winnable is miniscule if not impossible, I might think about investigating playing with another dealer

Lou is doubling down on that hand and the dealer has a King face up.

 

[TXNYI]

Good thing is that we will know one way or the other here in about a month which one of these will happen:

- Lou will sell (hopefully)
- Lou will buy (please no)
- Lou will stand pat (this is probably the scariest of all options, then you have no idea what his plan is)

This guy thinks we buy Tarasenko: 5 Early Bold Predictions for the 2023 NHL Trade Deadline

 

[Mike C]

Lou is doubling down on that hand and the dealer has a King face up.

i was thinking more poker oriented but same concept indeed!!

 

[The Real JT]

I say do it!



I don't think I'd call it a HIPAA violation. Sports teams aren't medical providers or in the medical field so I don't think they fit.



I did say I am also interested. I think it's valuable information when it comes to fantasy sports, gambling, evaluating roster decisions, etc., I just don't think we're entitled to it.



I agree this will happen, I just don't agree that it necessarily should.


To make a very extreme exaggeration, it feels like saying I'm a paying customer at a Dunkin' Donuts so I deserve to know the medical history of the manager to see if she can do an adequate job. Obviously there isn't fantasy donuts or donut gambling (at least as far as I'm aware), but the fact that there are activities built around the sport doesn't mean the sport should change to help those activities. It could be beneficial, for sure, but I don't think players or teams should be obligated to provide that information because a customer thinks they're entitled to it.

I’m more comfortable with the Dunkin Donuts conversation.

First of all, I’m going there just for the coffee, not for the donuts and definitely not for the bagels.

Hit your local bakery, donut store or bagel place if you crave the carbs.

 

[Mike C]

That "he may be fired next week" was really just a way to say we don't know what's going on behind the scenes rather than a prediction. If I had to put money on it I would say the more likely result, assuming they don't right the ship and assuming Lou leaves, is a mutual parting of the ways after the season.

probably the best and most dignified solution. Lou is a hockey legend and in my opinion deserves the chance to go out gracefully

 

[Lame Lambert]

I wish hockey had the same way of thinking as baseball, but it don't work like that.

Telling an ancient executive to gracefully “retire” or get fired is not mutually exclusive to baseball lol

 

[Osakahaus]

Telling an ancient executive to gracefully “retire” or get fired is not mutually exclusive to baseball lol

I mean the overall sense of diverse people you can hire from other organizations. it just feels like the same names pop up in hockey. Also lamoriello isn't like alderson at all. at least that crazy old man was right in some ways.

Seriously if they do hire Chris Lamoriello after everything I hope season tickets are at an all time low.

 

[PK Cronin]

Trotz and Lou and ownership have all acknowledged they needed more scoring. I'm not making excuses but I don't think it's accurate to say that the strategy is and always was to ice Barzal and a bunch of grinders. They failed to acquire more high-end skill (and shame on them) but you gotta play the cards you're dealt. Obviously there are more 2nd/3rd liners available than true 1st liners...

I'm coming around to the fact that Lou (and Trotz) squeezed all they could out of this core. 2 back to back semi final appearances ain't too shabby. Ultimately, they couldn't get that game-breaking talent to get them to true elite status. Time to move on I guess. So it goes.

I'm half and half here, depending on what you mean. I think the defense first and grinding style was the strategy for sure, because that's what the roster dictated be done and it's how Trotz and Lamoriello both like teams to play. To leave Barzal on an island, no, I don't think that was the strategy. I think it was last year, to an extent, to hang around until the deadline and then make a deal but that never materialized.

He did some nice things and addressed issues along the way, but he also missed a bit and it's hurting the team now. Bringing in Pageau helped stabilize the third line. Greene was a great get to help stabilize the defense. Then there's the Palmieri and Zajac deal, which I liked, but haven't panned out well. I also still like the Romanov deal. It just wasn't enough and with the expansion draft and cap crunch, the deals just kept things status quo instead of progressing the team. Now we're going backwards.

Again I believe the NHLPA wants this information guarded because it potentially weakens their position when negotiating contracts with owners. And if the NHLPA will share in the profits from gambling revenue, then there will be a much bigger incentive for them to allow injury details to be disclosed.

That is definitely part of the issue, yes.