Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[TeamKidd]

clutterbuck has been awful health wise for a while now. no longer a consistently healthy guy


He should've been traded when he had the chance. Again, if you could've gotten assets for the guy, do it. The isles biggest problem is that they refuse to do this whenever a player has a window to get traded

That's the difference between a Fraternity and a business and Lou treats this a bit too much like a Fraternity sometimes

 

[CupHolders]

That's the difference between a Fraternity and a business and Lou treats this a bit too much like a Fraternity sometimes

Great analogy actually. But using the same analogy, I'd put a hockey team as bit of both.

 

[Top Corner]

If I recall correctly, you are an older fan? I ask because, I would definitely have expected a change already if this was the 80s, 90s, or even just a few years ago. But with the cap, it just seems teams are les likely to make trades. Even if it's "just for a shake up."

Older is correct but not up there with Lou yet , The cap is certainly a hurdle these days considering anyone who is wanting to dance with the Isles is probably at their limit as well. I think there are a few teams with players under performing at 4-6mil that could use a change of scenery , its imperative that our GM targets one that has speed but my gut tells me he's over thinking the change and what it might do to the team.

 

[Osakahaus]

Great analogy actually. But using the same analogy, I'd put a hockey team as bit of both.

Well the isles problem is that they really treat this team like a frat now. I get that they did do well in the covid shortened seasons but, this team is doing a very bad job at moving on from players. or in some cases like Toews, they moved on too early and chose the wrong player.

 

[IslesNorway]

Well the isles problem is that they really treat this team like a frat now. I get that they did do well in the covid shortened seasons but, this team is doing a very bad job at moving on from players.

Agree. They have shown too much loyalty to some players. The roster and team gets stale when that happens and there must be a gradual turnaround. Now they are looking at missing the playoffs, then it's about time to start the turnaround. Move Mayfield for picks, in the summer move on from Bailey, Beau and Palms.

 

[CupHolders]

Well the isles problem is that they really treat this team like a frat now. I get that they did do well in the covid shortened seasons but, this team is doing a very bad job at moving on from players.

Isles under Lou has one season where they failed to make the playoffs. It was also a season with many mitigating circumstances. While I or you don’t have to agree with Lou’s assessment of how good this team is. I don’t think it necessarily means he is treating this team as a frat. Although, it seems you are more specifically suggesting a “country club” atmosphere.

If things remain the same after two years of no playoffs, sure then you definitely have a valid point.

 

[Osakahaus]

Isles under Lou has one season where they failed to make the playoffs. It was also a season with many mitigating circumstances. While I or you don’t have to agree with Lou’s assessment of how good this team is. I don’t think it necessarily means he is treating this team as a frat. Although, it seems you are more specifically suggesting a “country club” atmosphere.

If things remain the same after two years of no playoffs, sure then you definitely have a valid point.

again, fingers crossed we dont have another season of doing nothing. this team is still forever lucky the COVID pause happened in 2020, or else we'd be out of the playoffs.

 

[CupHolders]

Older is correct but not up there with Lou yet , The cap is certainly a hurdle these days considering anyone who is wanting to dance with the Isles is probably at their limit as well. I think there are a few teams with players under performing at 4-6mil that could use a change of scenery , its imperative that our GM targets one that has speed but my gut tells me he's over thinking the change and what it might do to the team.

To be clear my point is more that the traditional trades to ignite a spark just don’t happen anymore. So I won’t fault Lou for specifically not having done anything the past two months.

Bill Torrey and Lou Lamoriello pre-flat cap would’ve made such a trade. But those deals just don’t seem to be there anymore.

If you’re referring to him making a trade at the deadline and offseason, then yes it’s fair to say he hasn’t moved major pieces out before.

 

[CupHolders]

again, fingers crossed we dont have another season of doing nothing. this team is still forever lucky the COVID pause happened in 2020, or else we'd be out of the playoffs.

Nah. That falling out of the playoffs was totally overblown. Isles were on a losing streak while getting OT points and starting to turn their play around. Additionally, teams In similar positions were scheduled to face each other. Isles were not going to continue on an NHL record loosing streak while other teams all go on point streaks.

I’m not sure the Isles do nothing or if I even want Lou to be the one to do something?

I subscribe to @MJF viewpoint that the Isles have been too soft in their response to suspect head shots. Culminating in that Ovechkin run on Pageau immediately surrendering a 3-0 lead against their direct competition.

It’s technically early still, but I’ll be damned if that didn’t feel very “Nail in the coffin-ish”

 

[MJF]

Nah. That falling out of the playoffs was totally overblown. Isles were on a losing streak while getting OT points and starting to turn their play around. Additionally, teams In similar positions were scheduled to face each other. Isles were not going to continue on an NHL record loosing streak while other teams all go on point streaks.

I’m not sure the Isles do nothing or if I even want Lou to be the one to do something?

I subscribe to @MJF viewpoint that the Isles have been too soft in their response to suspect head shots. Culminating in that Ovechkin run on Pageau immediately surrendering a 3-0 lead against their direct competition.

It’s technically early still, but I’ll be damned if that didn’t feel very “Nail in the coffin-ish”

I think its only “still early” because the Penguins are trying to match us loss for loss. Otherwise the separation in the standings is happening above us, not below us.

 

[SI]

i'm saying it more because of several factors
-the loss of more draft picks/prospects
-assumption our GM situation doesn't change
-timo hypothetically regresses on here
i'd love for Timo, I just hope to god that it could work out. time is running out on the isles to make a move.

Why are you assuming he would regress? Like why is that the default?

The clock hasn't started to make a move.
Teams won't be moving until closer to the deadline, so there is time ticking.
This team has to hang on, but it is more than likely that there are no moves and this might be something that needs addressing in the offseason. If Isles rally and are within striking distance and they go for Meier or if the Isles seem to fall back and cannot keep pace, then we could see Varly, Parise, and possibly Mayfield going.

I also do not see the need to worry about the GM. Every GM has had to deal with the flat cap and that has impacted teams to make moves. I am a fan of Lou, so I'm not sure what the shaking in the boots is about.

 

[SI]

I meant this summer not at the TDL. If they can they should if not then oh well.

As far as the 4th line goes… Clutterbuck needs to retire at this point… He can’t stay healthy. Martin is having a good year and I’d be fine with him coming back next year. Martin - Cizikas - Fasching should be the 4th line next year. Save a million on cal alone and Fasching is superior to him at this point.

I love what Fashing has done, but let's pump the breaks on superior. Fasching does not kill penalties and does not punish the other team like Cal does. He grinds and he has been great on the boards and I love how he drives to the net, but Cal is the better player.

Now, about his health - it is a concern and we may be seeing Cal's time on LTIR versus him being moved. I would try to move Bailey for Dickinson in a cap-saving move if we cannot find a better deal to dump Josh. Dickinson has better speed, can kill penalties, and can play in that role.

IMO, I believe Martin does not get resigned and retires after his contract.

 

[Osakahaus]

Nah. That falling out of the playoffs was totally overblown. Isles were on a losing streak while getting OT points and starting to turn their play around. Additionally, teams In similar positions were scheduled to face each other. Isles were not going to continue on an NHL record loosing streak while other teams all go on point streaks.

I’m not sure the Isles do nothing or if I even want Lou to be the one to do something?

I subscribe to @MJF viewpoint that the Isles have been too soft in their response to suspect head shots. Culminating in that Ovechkin run on Pageau immediately surrendering a 3-0 lead against their direct competition.

It’s technically early still, but I’ll be damned if that didn’t feel very “Nail in the coffin-ish”

They feel a lot softer than the 2020 team anyways.

 

[Top Corner]

To be clear my point is more that the traditional trades to ignite a spark just don’t happen anymore. So I won’t fault Lou for specifically not having done anything the past two months.

Bill Torrey and Lou Lamoriello pre-flat cap would’ve made such a trade. But those deals just don’t seem to be there anymore.

If you’re referring to him making a trade at the deadline and offseason, then yes it’s fair to say he hasn’t moved major pieces out before.

I guess my point and problem is in his 4 years there isn’t another GM with the same amount of years who has stood pat and not moved a player for player. I could be wrong so correct me please but I have to think there can’t be many if any

 

[The Real JT]

I was considering starting a new thread on this topic but there’s already too much negativity here. I’m admittedly part of that btw.

Let’s call this a list of player outperformances vs disappointments

Outperformances:
Sorokin
Mayfield
Parise
Fasching (does that really matter?)

Disappointments:
Killer B’s: Barzal, Beau, Bailey
Wally
Pulock: He’s ok but he’s a 1B/2A Dman with little offense. We expected and need more.
Dobson: That’ll be controversial but he’s a defensive liability. Offense will come back.
Palmieri: A little unfair due to injury but it’s my list so he’s on it.
Romanov: Borderline for this list but I didn’t realize how limited his offensive game is.

Others are about what I expected. That’s not necessarily a good thing.

 

[Tres Peleches]

I’m all aboard the failhardforBedard train

 

[IslesNorway]

Fascing has done more than Bailey and Beau and should stick around at their expense. If we can find someone making a million or less outperforming them, it's worth waiving them to make room.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Fascing has done more than Bailey and Beau and should stick around at their expense. If we can find someone making a million or less outperforming them, it's worth waiving them to make room.

He hasnt produced more, he’s a 13th forward.

 

[seafoam]

Fascing has done more than Bailey and Beau and should stick around at their expense. If we can find someone making a million or less outperforming them, it's worth waiving them to make room.

100% Fasching is a better top nine option than Bailey right now. Beauvillier too but Lambert likes him with Nelson too much apparently...

 

[Osakahaus]

Fascing has done more than Bailey and Beau and should stick around at their expense. If we can find someone making a million or less outperforming them, it's worth waiving them to make room.

Thats more embarrassing to say. Fasching is more productive than a player with 1000 games with the isles and a guy who score a game 6 OT winner.

In retrospect this team's forward core has been stinking it up over the past few weeks.

 

[Strickland]

selling at the deadline is an easy choice. so is trading nelson at the draft for picks/prospects.

what to do with pulock is harder. you get an overpay, and you have to think about it.

 

[seafoam]

selling at the deadline is an easy choice. so is trading nelson at the draft for picks/prospects.

what to do with pulock is harder. you get an overpay, and you have to think about it.

Can't see 'Loyal Lou' even considering trading Pulock considering he just signed him to a long term deal, although if Mayfield were to be re-signed it would definitely be something a GM should look into.

 

[CupHolders]

100% Fasching is a better top nine option than Bailey right now. Beauvillier too but Lambert likes him with Nelson too much apparently...

Barzal, Beauvillier, Cizikas and Pageau are really the only forward options who can carry the puck through the center ice into the offensive zone with some regularity.

My guess why Beau is matched with Nelson, is that Lambert seems to like to keep his play drivers on separate lines.

Isles need more and better line drivers.

 

[Osakahaus]

selling at the deadline is an easy choice. so is trading nelson at the draft for picks/prospects.

what to do with pulock is harder. you get an overpay, and you have to think about it.

Pulock's contract says otherwise, and teams being strapped for cap also throws a wrench in things. I would still explore a Nelson trade with Colorado, especially since they still need a proper 2C to replace a Kadri sized hole.

 

[CupHolders]

I like Mayfield a lot. Have advocated for him being retained. But all things contractually equal Pulock even without the offense still edges out Mayfield.

With that said, yes I would absolutely prefer Mayfield at ~4/5m for ~4/5 years vs Pulock at his current contract.

@The Real JT, should not be controversial at all, Dobson has been piss poor with the extra minutes. I’m unabashedly a huge fan of his. At least he has shown a strong defensive pedigree at junior. So there is still hope of being more than an offensive d-man.