Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

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MJF

Hope is not a strategy
Sep 6, 2003
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I fear that I can't really see that.

I think we're damned to seeing that '23 1st and a couple of the more promising prospects being moved for a bigger piece.

I just don't think anything can happen in the next 10+ games to dissuade Lamoriello from "going for it", no matter how minimal the chances seem to be based on the results to date.

He's old, he believes in the guys he has here, he put a lot of eggs in the basket by switching Trotz with Lambert... and he's old.

I'm still moving forward with the belief that we'll be one of the active buyers at the deadline with the usual MO Lamoriell move (future's for a proven upgrade that may or may not be a homerun hit).

Lou's not living for the future here.
Leaving Lou’s age out of this, he believes in the guys he brought in, probably was sold on the tightness of the group in the room, and felt he owed them yet another chance to do what they fell short of in 2021 because COVID, schedule, injuries scuttled them last year. On this part I think he was wrong.

Had Lou been 20 years younger I think he would have done exactly what he’s done for us so far.
 

WangMustGo

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The biggest UFA the Isles ever signed was Varly. Chances of Horvat coming to Isles <2%.

You are right, but the past few years have changed alot. We had a horrible owner and no stability for a couple of decades. One of the oldest arenas and crappy practice facilities in the league. Its no wonder top UFAs stayed away. Now we have grear amenities and a beautiful arena with good owners. We have respect again. The biggest thing holding us back from a big UFA is capspace.
 
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SI

Registered User
Feb 16, 2013
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I fear that I can't really see that.

I think we're damned to seeing that '23 1st and a couple of the more promising prospects being moved for a bigger piece.

I just don't think anything can happen in the next 10+ games to dissuade Lamoriello from "going for it", no matter how minimal the chances seem to be based on the results to date.

He's old, he believes in the guys he has here, he put a lot of eggs in the basket by switching Trotz with Lambert... and he's old.

I'm still moving forward with the belief that we'll be one of the active buyers at the deadline with the usual MO Lamoriell move (future's for a proven upgrade that may or may not be a homerun hit).

Lou's not living for the future here.
I should have been more articulate.

I do not see Lou trading the 2023 1st this TDL, but I can see him using it as a piece to address the F group in the off season.
 
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YearlyLottery

The Pooch Report
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I should have been more articulate.

I do not see Lou trading the 2023 1st this TDL, but I can see him using it as a piece to address the F group in the off season.

Important to note Lou did not trade the 1st last deadline when some expected him to trade it. He has only dealt the first in years they made the Conference Finals. I do not even think he dealt the 1st in the year they lost to Carolina if I remember correctly. That was the Holmstrom draft he was killed for on here.
 
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Chapin Landvogt

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Leaving Lou’s age out of this, he believes in the guys he brought in, probably was sold on the tightness of the group in the room, and felt he owed them yet another chance to do what they fell short of in 2021 because COVID, schedule, injuries scuttled them last year. On this part I think he was wrong.

Had Lou been 20 years younger I think he would have done exactly what he’s done for us so far.

Well, he's 80-years old. I believe that makes him the oldest GM in the 4 major sports, much less the NHL.

Realistically speaking, there's no such thing as leaving his age out of this.
 

Throttle

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Sep 22, 2020
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Well, he's 80-years old. I believe that makes him the oldest GM in the 4 major sports, much less the NHL.

Realistically speaking, there's no such thing as leaving his age out of this.
Well, he won GM of the year back to back at ages 77 and 78. Or are we going with the Trotz thing that Lou didn’t really win it, Barry did?

There’s not even a 2 timer winner since 2010 beyond Lou, let alone someone doing it back to back.
 
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MJF

Hope is not a strategy
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Well, he's 80-years old. I believe that makes him the oldest GM in the 4 major sports, much less the NHL.

Realistically speaking, there's no such thing as leaving his age out of this.
That’s BS.

Do you really think he operates not in the best interest of the team, both short and long term, and operates in his best interest because the sand has nearly run out of his hourglass?

Aren’t you better than this?
 

MJF

Hope is not a strategy
Sep 6, 2003
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Well, he won GM of the year back to back at ages 77 and 78. Or are we going with the Trotz thing that Lou didn’t really win it, Barry did?

There’s not even a 2 timer winner since 2010 beyond Lou, let alone someone doing it back to back.
Don’t you know that giving Lou those 2 awards is like giving an 85 year old actor a Lifetime Achievement Award at the Oscars? It’s a feel good thing but otherwise not serious.
 

YearlyLottery

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That’s BS.

Do you really think he operates not in the best interest of the team, both short and long term, and operates in his best interest because the sand has nearly run out of his hourglass?

Aren’t you better than this?

Honestly though.... In my opinion it would just be natural human emotions on Lou's part. Would you want him to be the head of a retool? My answer would be no simply because of his age. Would rather he becomes a President of Operations rather than step down when the time comes.
 

YearlyLottery

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Don’t you know that giving Lou those 2 awards is like giving an 85 year old actor a Lifetime Achievement Award at the Oscars? It’s a feel good thing but otherwise not serious.

The Islanders were coming off of one of the worst days in franchise history two weeks into the Lou era. Lou has made mistakes but the revisionist history is astounding to me. He revitalized this organization.
 

Big L

Grandpa’s Cough Medicine is 180 Proof
Feb 7, 2013
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Honestly though.... In my opinion it would just be natural human emotions on Lou's part. Would you want him to be the head of a retool? My answer would be no simply because of his age. Would rather he becomes a President of Operations rather than step down when the time comes.
Successful leaders don’t let natural human emotions get involved in making decisions on what’s good for the company.
 
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MJF

Hope is not a strategy
Sep 6, 2003
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NYC
Honestly though.... In my opinion it would just be natural human emotions on Lou's part. Would you want him to be the head of a retool? My answer would be no simply because of his age. Would rather he becomes a President of Operations rather than step down when the time comes.
I don’t buy that. Being a hockey exec is in his blood. Age will not make him operate differently. However, Lou’s template for the team I don’t agree with. That would be the reason I don’t want him to run another rebuild, not because he’s 80 years old.

I remember the same garbage being said about Bill Torrey before he got fired. He’s too old, the game has changed, blah blah blah. Then he built the Panthers from the ground, up. In his 3rd year there they were in the Stanley Cup Finals.

Once you’ve got it, you’ve got it.

Successful leaders don’t let natural human emotions get involved in making decisions on what’s good for the company.
Well said.
 

YearlyLottery

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Successful leaders don’t let natural human emotions get involved in making decisions on what’s good for the company.

There must not be more than 30 or so successful leader in the entire world.

I don’t buy that. Being a hockey exec is in his blood. Age will not make him operate differently. However, Lou’s template for the team I don’t agree with. That would be the reason I don’t want him to run another rebuild, not because he’s 80 years old.

I remember the same garbage being said about Bill Torrey before he got fired. He’s too old, the game has changed, blah blah blah. Then he built the Panthers from the ground, up. In his 3rd year there they were in the Stanley Cup Finals.

Once you’ve got it, you’ve got it.


Well said.

Was not old enough to know the Torrey issues but I do not think that the game has past Lou by in any way, shape, or form. I'd continue to give Lou time to build this team and see what he can do.
 

danteipp

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To be honest, I don't actually know who was available to be brought in as a top 6 LD. But I don't believe that is the best way to look at it. Just because you have a need, doesn't mean you have to overpay for it. Especially when the need for forwards was much greater. Debrincat, and Fiala would have been better investments in my opinion. They obviously cost more against the cap, but they are difference makers. Lou has tried to build a team filled with average players who don't move the needle much. He doesn't take big swings. Romanov, JGP, and Palmieri are all such examples.

Which brings me to the pivot you talk about. Coleman/Goodrow were cost controlled for two years providing elite level bottom 6 forwards. The team acquiring these players already had Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Point, Vasilevsky, etc. Their need was cheap depth. They got that at a relatively low cost. Once FAs Goodrow got 3.4 and Coleman got 4.9. Lightning got those players when they were making ~1-2 mil. This was a team that understood what they were lacking and executed.

Isles don't function this way. It was clear to everyone except for Lou that they were lacking at least one top 6 forward. What'd they do? Traded for a defensive defenseman. I agree that guys like Parise and Fasching are good value. It makes the JGP overpay more palatable. However, the death by a thousand paper cuts model created by Lou makes it very difficult to build a powerhouse. We have a bubble team. Lou should've known that, but he chose not to do anything about it. And here we are.

Top-4 defensemen on the open market cost big money and are typically older in both years and wear and tear. That is how you pay $4+ million in AAV, on long-term deals, for players like Gudbranson.

Quality young defensemen rarely hit the market and you have to give to get. The Isles gave up the 14th overall pick and, if that pick develops into Romanov, it is probably a solid draft pick. The Isles also got a pick back and took Isaiah George, who is also a solid prospect and having a nice season in juniors. They added two pieces.

You admit you don't have a reasonable or viable solution to fill the LHD2 spot that Romanov was brought in for, who is now logging even bigger minutes with Pelech out. This team would be a disaster without both Pelech and Romanov. Far worse than they are right now.

And Debrincat wasn't going to cost the 14th OA but went for the 7th OA, the 39th OA and a third in 2023. The Isles couldn't match that with just the first rounder, it probably would have taken two firsts. You would pay two firsts and the contract Debrincat will probably be given (probably in the $8-9 million AAV range)? I wouldn't.

That 14th OA would have landed you a player like JT Miller, who has already worn out his welcome in Vancouver and they are dying to unload him now before the ink has even dried on his extension. He is also a world-class dbag apparently.

So, while the Isles still need that top forward, they filled a hole at a moderate cost, added a very good prospect and they have their 2023 first to use if another top forward comes along, ideally for a better fit than Miller.

The Isles have all of the pieces but one. Lou needs to get that sniper, but they have an elite goalie in Sorokin, a solid platoon mate in Varly, the defense is very good, they have 4 very good NHL centers and a top prospect in Raty, and they have lots of players that fit for depth.

If Lou can't get that elite forward, then it will be a big miss. But I like the rest of the team and the younger players developing in the system. Having one hole to fill should be doable, but we will see.
 
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duster19

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Feb 13, 2013
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Well, he won GM of the year back to back at ages 77 and 78. Or are we going with the Trotz thing that Lou didn’t really win it, Barry did?

There’s not even a 2 timer winner since 2010 beyond Lou, let alone someone doing it back to back.

Those years he was active though. He went out and filled the holes the isles had on the roster. Goaltending. 3rd line center. Palms for scoring depth. Hired a difference making coach. The last 2 seasons he has done very little. He’s been really passive. Let holes in the line up fester. And really has put a roster together with less talent then the years he won those awards. Even somehow hired a new coach that was basically the same as the one before. It’s like his time has been split in half. The first part he was one of the best GMs. The last 2 he has been one of the worst.
 
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Throttle

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Sep 22, 2020
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Those years he was active though. He went out and filled the holes the isles had on the roster. Goaltending. 3rd line center. Palms for scoring depth. Hired a difference making coach. The last 2 seasons he has done very little. He’s been really passive. Let holes in the line up fester. And really has put a roster together with less talent then the years he won those awards. Even somehow hired a new coach that was basically the same as the one before. It’s like his time has been split in half. The first part he was one of the best GMs. The last 2 he has been one of the worst.
Well, maybe the prices are too high and doesn’t want to sacrifice picks (those things fans love) and is just seeing how the market breaks each year.

Last year, it was very clear his plan not to sign a 100yr old d-man in September. He’s also been challenged, just like other teams to maneuver a flat cap and having a ton of cap space on the books.
 

SI

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Feb 16, 2013
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To be honest, I don't actually know who was available to be brought in as a top 6 LD. But I don't believe that is the best way to look at it. Just because you have a need, doesn't mean you have to overpay for it. Especially when the need for forwards was much greater. Debrincat, and Fiala would have been better investments in my opinion. They obviously cost more against the cap, but they are difference makers. Lou has tried to build a team filled with average players who don't move the needle much. He doesn't take big swings. Romanov, JGP, and Palmieri are all such examples.

Which brings me to the pivot you talk about. Coleman/Goodrow were cost controlled for two years providing elite level bottom 6 forwards. The team acquiring these players already had Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Point, Vasilevsky, etc. Their need was cheap depth. They got that at a relatively low cost. Once FAs Goodrow got 3.4 and Coleman got 4.9. Lightning got those players when they were making ~1-2 mil. This was a team that understood what they were lacking and executed.

Isles don't function this way. It was clear to everyone except for Lou that they were lacking at least one top 6 forward. What'd they do? Traded for a defensive defenseman. I agree that guys like Parise and Fasching are good value. It makes the JGP overpay more palatable. However, the death by a thousand paper cuts model created by Lou makes it very difficult to build a powerhouse. We have a bubble team. Lou should've known that, but he chose not to do anything about it. And here we are.

Fiala and Debrincat were both traded before the Romanov deal. The Isles could not top Ottawa and LA's offers for the top wingers. So, who knows if Lou tried and was told no thanks?
 
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SI

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Feb 16, 2013
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So, far 0-0-1 during this 11 games stretch.
The next 10 games will shape how Lou approaches the TDL.

My suggestion is don't get swept up in the rumour mill - just enjoy this team as it is for this season because if they fail to make the playoffs, there will be changes in the off-season (if Lou can move $).
 

danteipp

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Aug 3, 2005
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Fiala and Debrincat were both traded before the Romanov deal. The Isles could not top Ottawa and LA's offers for the top wingers. So, who knows if Lou tried and was told no thanks?

But it is so much easier to simply ignore the cost, toss in a few stats and make up your own narrative, without offering up concrete solutions. Social media thrives on that formula.
 
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Tahoeblue

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Nov 29, 2019
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Someone’s gotta say it. Did we miss the boat on Sonny Milano?

Long Island kid could’ve been signed on the cheap for a team that has a glaring deficit of offensively skilled players. Sure he’s soft defensively but haven’t we had enough of the plodding unproductive veteran forwards on this squad?

Milano stats this year:
29 games: 7 goals 12 assists +3

That point total would be tied for 6th on the Isles and on a point per game basis he’d rank even higher.

He won’t be making an all star team any time soon but beggars can’t be choosers.
I like Milano. Evan Rodrigues was another player I was hoping Lou would take a look at, plus he plays C.
 

Mike C

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Jan 24, 2022
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So, far 0-0-1 during this 11 games stretch.
The next 10 games will shape how Lou approaches the TDL.

My suggestion is don't get swept up in the rumour mill - just enjoy this team as it is for this season because if they fail to make the playoffs, there will be changes in the off-season (if Lou can move $).
Or Lou's replacement if in him they'll no longer trust
 

SI

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Or Lou's replacement if in him they'll no longer trust
They are not replacing Lou.

Why? Because he hasn't made enough moves.
Every NHL fan should realize that the cap has deterred many GMs and teams from making deals.
The lack of movement does not fall solely on thew shoulders of GMs - it is the reality of the NHL until the cap shoots up or there are changes to the system.

Stability is important - for some, it may be overrated, but for me, I can appreciate patience and trust.

As a die-hard Islander fan for over 40 years, what I appreciate most from the Lou era is how he changed the culture of this team. The team is no longer a laughingstock- there is an identity here and a culture.

I can assure you Lou retires or dies as GM of this team.
 
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Mike C

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Jan 24, 2022
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They are not replacing Lou.

Why?

Just remember a pre season article (don't remember where) that quoted one of the owners saying Lou will be held accountable for the team. It wasn't said negatively or threateningly but more like there are expectations that should be met on the ice

At this point, a new voice running the show might not be the worst way to go
 

Chapin Landvogt

Registered User
Jul 4, 2002
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That’s BS.

Do you really think he operates not in the best interest of the team, both short and long term, and operates in his best interest because the sand has nearly run out of his hourglass?

Aren’t you better than this?

:popcorn:

All I know is that you're better than everyone else, MJF.

Keep being your condescending self. Don't want things to get too bland around here.
 
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