Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[MJF]

This is correct.

Great defense for years, with mostly the same team, and now they've suddenly forgotten how to play defense while scoring a lot more goals? Nope. This roster has to choose, they either play offense or they play defense, they're incapable of doing both as currently constructed. I preferred the defensive version of the team.

Amen.

 

[Top Corner]

I'm fine with the trade for Palms, it's the signing; Palms has always had an injury hx.. It's also the signing of Beau, he miscalculated thinking Beau would've blossomed (I never saw Beau taking that next step). It's also not doing something with Bailey's 5 mil. I'm fine with Pageau, a 3rd-line, all-around center was badly needed and he's still very much in his prime. Lou's locked himself into too many middle-6 players, now he doesn't have the space to sign/trade for an elite forward. Hopefully he can do something with Bailey this offseason to create cap latitude. I see the most decline in Bailey's game. As a result, we see a mediocre/above avg. team, but not a true Cup contender.

For every good cap move Lou has achieved , he’s proceeded to fill it with an unwise signing

 

[MJF]

This is correct.

Great defense for years, with mostly the same team, and now they've suddenly forgotten how to play defense while scoring a lot more goals? Nope. This roster has to choose, they either play offense or they play defense, they're incapable of doing both as currently constructed. I preferred the defensive version of the team.

It was never more evident than on the Keller goal where Romanov got hurt. He was the only one near the net to cover an area while 3 forwards turned up ice and were leaving the D zone.

 

[PK Cronin]

It was never more evident than on the Keller goal where Romanov got hurt. He was the only one near the net to cover an area while 3 forwards turned up ice and were leaving the D zone.

And the funny thing is, even with all the goals the team is scoring they still can't win because of special teams.



All that offense is leading to more offense against too, so the way this team gets better is by improving special teams play, not by opening the game up.

 

[MJF]

All that offense is leading to more offense against too, so the way this team gets better is by improving special teams play, not by opening the game up.

So then it comes down to the players Lou went to the mat for not performing any better than they last season.

 

[Top Corner]

Romanov is bad at hockey. I hope they don't trade for Romanovs in the future. He's 22, so hoping he can develop into a decent top 6 guy, but 30 games in, it's looking bad. He's average in the defensive zone. However, he is so bad at transporting and passing the puck, that the territorial play is usually in the D zone when he's on the ice. It's no coincidence that Dobson has been better since Aho replaced Romanov. Coincidentally, Mayfield's metrics have been worse. Mayfield is actually very good at what he does. Romanov has dragged down all of his defensive partners thus far. Hoping he's still learning the system. It took Mayfield a while too. But IMO, that trade has looked really bad so far.

Of all defensemen that have played at least 500 5v5 minutes, only Fowler, Faulk, Kuliko v, Provorov, Pionk have allowed more xGA. He's at 44% xGF% for the season. For a dman who doesn't provide anything offensively, that's really bad.

I'm really hoping that Lou realizes his mistake and deals him as part of a bigger deal for a top 6 forward. There has to be other GMs that think he's good.

We should have dealt 1st for Dach and made it work,Montreals front office seen the Romanov flaws regardless of the fan base love affair and seen Dach as high end prospect that would produce. Early signs are positive

 

[The Real JT]

This is correct.

Great defense for years, with mostly the same team, and now they've suddenly forgotten how to play defense while scoring a lot more goals? Nope. This roster has to choose, they either play offense or they play defense, they're incapable of doing both as currently constructed. I preferred the defensive version of the team.

It’s a no win situation.

Where does our offense stand with respect to talent now vs the last few years? It was never great but frankly it’s worse now. Bailey, Beau, Lee and the fourth line have regressed. Wally is a little better and Parise looks rejuvenated. Nelson has been consistently solid but Barzal, for all his talent, has been a disappointment. There’s no immediate help on the farm and a trade for one forward makes us a little better but at what long term cost?

Sigh

 

[WangMustGo]

It’s a no win situation.

Where does our offense stand with respect to talent now vs the last few years? It was never great but frankly it’s worse now. Bailey, Beau, Lee and the fourth line have regressed. Wally is a little better and Parise looks rejuvenated. Nelson has been consistently solid but Barzal, for all his talent, has been a disappointment. There’s no immediate help on the farm and a trade for one forward makes us a little better but at what long term cost?

Sigh

I agree with most of what you are saying, but i dont think its fair to call Barzal a disappointment. He is at a PPG, playing most of the season with Bailey, Holmstrom, and Wahlstrom.

I think we all wish he would drive the net a bit more, get better of faceoffs, and shoot a bit more, but he is a pure playmaker. He makes incredible passes, creates a ton of space for his linemates, and drives the play.

The disappointment has to be on Lou, once again he has failed to find a 1st line sniper to play with Barzal, in what world is it acceptable to have Barzal playing with glorified ahlers?

 

[Mike C]

And the funny thing is, even with all the goals the team is scoring they still can't win because of special teams.



All that offense is leading to more offense against too, so the way this team gets better is by improving special teams play, not by opening the game up.

to that end, i might put parise on pp1 and take lee off. parise can get to the net but also is versatile enough to do other things whereas lee can only stand in front. i've always been a beleiver in the concept that if what you're doing isn't working, try something different

 

[xECK29x]

We should have dealt 1st for Dach and made it work,Montreals front office seen the Romanov flaws regardless of the fan base love affair and seen Dach as high end prospect that would produce. Early signs are positive

I agree here

 

[Mike C]

So then it comes down to the players Lou went to the mat for not performing any better than they last season.

so maybe the new voice is getting laryngitis??

 

[seafoam]

I wonder what Eberle could be had for?

 

[JPIsles18]

What contending team has cap space to accommodate for larger assets? None, all the guys you mention went to non-playoff teams.

Yeah, CAR got damaged goods for ‘free’ - yet their problem isn’t offense.

Don’t have a love affair with Lou, rather, understand how fans are passionate about this franchise, but it’s not a premium franchise. We can believe all day long that Johnny Trademark would have signed with the Isles, if they had the space: that is very lofty assumption w/o any legit information to support other.

Fans complain all day long about the 10 guys overpaid and causing cap issues, yet he clearly overpaid and bought into the one trick pony ice capades - he’s overpaid but it’s acceptable bc he can skate and it’s everyone’s else’s fault on the roster and GM. Beau is overpaid as he was ‘invested in’ to improved, he hasn’t. Pulock is overpaid that’s for sure. Again, another player he invested in. All of these guys were the team’s own picks too.

I'm not sure who you're referring to about the one trick pony ice capades.

Beau was actually a good signing. However, he regressed. I can't fault him there. I cannot explain what happened there. Pulock, I don't believe is overpaid. He hasn't had the best season. However, when pieces are in place, and he's paired with Pelech - that's a legitimate shutdown pair.

When I talk about the poor investments, I'm talking about guys like Bailey, Palmieri, JGP. I know Bailey was on the team already. However, he got rid of Ladd. Getting rid of Bailey and sweetening the pot (even if it was a 1st round pick), and having the space to make a run at a franchise changing player like JG would've been a much better investment. Lou hasn't mastered the cap space. He doesn't seem to understand it's an asset. The best teams in the league invest heavily in their top players, and spend almost nothing on the type of players the Isles heavily invest in. Hence you have a very poor product.

 

[Tahoeblue]

I was thinking about flying down to AZ for that game. Brutal. Put me in the camp of not moving a first rounder or youth this year at the TDL. The Isles may best be served to see if Debrincat or Tank hit the open market.

Who knows, by next week I may change my mind. This team can be frustrating sometimes.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Lou needs to be gone this off-season I’ve seen enough of him.

 

[Mike C]

Lou needs to be gone this off-season I’ve seen enough of him.

Or not seen as the case may be

 

[Throttle]

I'm not sure who you're referring to about the one trick pony ice capades.

Beau was actually a good signing. However, he regressed. I can't fault him there. I cannot explain what happened there. Pulock, I don't believe is overpaid. He hasn't had the best season. However, when pieces are in place, and he's paired with Pelech - that's a legitimate shutdown pair.

When I talk about the poor investments, I'm talking about guys like Bailey, Palmieri, JGP. I know Bailey was on the team already. However, he got rid of Ladd. Getting rid of Bailey and sweetening the pot (even if it was a 1st round pick), and having the space to make a run at a franchise changing player like JG would've been a much better investment. Lou hasn't mastered the cap space. He doesn't seem to understand it's an asset. The best teams in the league invest heavily in their top players, and spend almost nothing on the type of players the Isles heavily invest in. Hence you have a very poor product.

Again, he didn’t sign Bailey. No salary is moving in the league w/o pick compensation. What happens when Lou ditches Bailey plus a 1st for cap space, but Johnny Trademark still goes to another team? You are assuming wrongly that just because the Isles have the space, some premium UFA is signing with the Isles because their options are limited. Yeh, look at all that summer of fun in FL and CLG, both aren’t even playoff teams as of now.

Don’t sign Palms. Fine, where are you getting his allocated 25G from?

Don’t sign JGP for a team that sought a player like him for Barry’s system. What’s the other option? Interestingly, Lou that season acquired via trade the number one UFA-to be.

I don’t have a problem with your line of thinking, it just Isles fans like to complain about these deals/players, yet never offer up the alternatives besides pie in the sky dreamers like Johnny Trademark.

If the Isles want ‘elite’ talent, then gamble by going all lotto for several years like 4-7 years, deal with it, show up for the games bc this is what you wanted. But, you know what will happen. 8k weeknights, a few sellouts here and there, tons of kiddie nights, and a billion excuses why fans can’t make the games. My guess is the owners KNOW this from their vast research and don’t want to do that until they have to. Not a Lou thing, but an ownership thing.

 

[MJF]

Again, he didn’t sign Bailey. No salary is moving in the league w/o pick compensation. What happens when Lou ditches Bailey plus a 1st for cap space, but Johnny Trademark still goes to another team? You are assuming wrongly that just because the Isles have the space, some premium UFA is signing with the Isles because their options are limited. Yeh, look at all that summer of fun in FL and CLG, both aren’t even playoff teams as of now.

Don’t sign Palms. Fine, where are you getting his allocated 25G from?

Don’t sign JGP for a team that sought a player like him for Barry’s system. What’s the other option? Interestingly, Lou that season acquired via trade the number one UFA-to be.

I don’t have a problem with your line of thinking, it just Isles fans like to complain about these deals/players, yet never offer up the alternatives besides pie in the sky dreamers like Johnny Trademark.

If the Isles want ‘elite’ talent, then gamble by going all lotto for several years like 4-7 years, deal with it, show up for the games bc this is what you wanted. But, you know what will happen. 8k weeknights, a few sellouts here and there, tons of kiddie nights, and a billion excuses why fans can’t make the games. My guess is the owners KNOW this from their vast research and don’t want to do that until they have to. Not a Lou thing, but an ownership thing.

And what do you think is going to happen to the attendance if the team stays on the mediocrity merry go round of wild card spots and early playoff exits? Because this is what trading for middle 6 character guys or throwing in 1stt round picks to move bad contracts will do for this organization.

The just get in to the playoffs, dollar and a dream, gotta be in it to win it mentality without having legitimate elite talent on the team is not going to work.

 

[JPIsles18]

Again, he didn’t sign Bailey. No salary is moving in the league w/o pick compensation. What happens when Lou ditches Bailey plus a 1st for cap space, but Johnny Trademark still goes to another team? You are assuming wrongly that just because the Isles have the space, some premium UFA is signing with the Isles because their options are limited. Yeh, look at all that summer of fun in FL and CLG, both aren’t even playoff teams as of now.

Don’t sign Palms. Fine, where are you getting his allocated 25G from?

Don’t sign JGP for a team that sought a player like him for Barry’s system. What’s the other option? Interestingly, Lou that season acquired via trade the number one UFA-to be.

I don’t have a problem with your line of thinking, it just Isles fans like to complain about these deals/players, yet never offer up the alternatives besides pie in the sky dreamers like Johnny Trademark.

If the Isles want ‘elite’ talent, then gamble by going all lotto for several years like 4-7 years, deal with it, show up for the games bc this is what you wanted. But, you know what will happen. 8k weeknights, a few sellouts here and there, tons of kiddie nights, and a billion excuses why fans can’t make the games. My guess is the owners KNOW this from their vast research and don’t want to do that until they have to. Not a Lou thing, but an ownership thing.

I understand and respect your point. I think where we differ is that I'm not as pessimistic as you are regarding the Isles status. They aren't as attractive as the original 6 teams or some other top market teams. However, I think you undervalue the cap squeeze. CBJ has lost Panarin, Dubois, Bobrovsky because they didn't want to be there. Do you honestly believe that JG really had them as the top choice. Once the dust settled, it was clear that there were only two teams that were bidding for him: Devils and Blue Jackets. Based on the reports, CBJ offered more and the Devils were never given the opportunity to match it. I have a tough time believing that if the Isles offered a competitive offer, he'd still choose the Blue Jackets.

But it doesn't even have to be the UFA route. I also mentioned pricey RFAs like Debrincat and Fiala. There was also the issue of keeping our own in Devon Toews. I, personally don't like expensive UFAs. They are usually 30+ and want 7 years at a ridiculous price. I'm a bigger fan of acquiring younger, cheaper RFAs and giving them 7 year deals. Even though it costs assets, you have them during their true peak years.

We did that this past offseason. Unfortunately it was for a player I don't think will ever amount to much (really hoping I'm wrong). And that's my main issue. The players I mention were mistakes from day 1. Beau was a calculated risk on a young player that didn't pan out. You and I won't agree because I don't think in a cap crunched world, Isles can't attract great players. Winning changes things. Isles had two deep impressive runs. Players notice. Opportunity to improve was there. However, Lou has certain type of player he likes to a fault. Don't forget that during his run with the Devils, he fell in love with the players that won by overcommitting to them. He did the same in Toronto.

We needed the Lou that once traded for Ilya Kovalchuk and then tried to circumvent the cap. That's the Lou that might win us championships. Our acquisitions and on-ice play for the last two seasons have been pretty boring and uninspiring. Putting it another way: Lou had more success with the players Snow acquired than the team he has "built."

 

[Throttle]

And what do you think is going to happen to the attendance if the team stays on the mediocrity merry go round of wild card spots and early playoff exits? Because this is what trading for middle 6 character guys or throwing in 1stt round picks to move bad contracts will do for this organization.

The just get in to the playoffs, dollar and a dream, gotta be in it to win it mentality without having legitimate elite talent on the team is not going to work.

It will decline to the point where the owners will recognize it’s time to do something alternative. I just don’t see it now in year 2 or 3 of this new building. They want to capitalize on revenue and expanding the base. Now, teams try to get buy in from their fans by announcing changes (ie Rangers) are coming. I would that as part of a larger transition. Team is going in ‘y’ direction and we have hired ‘x’ guy to do it type of thing.

 

[MJF]

It will decline to the point where the owners will recognize it’s time to do something alternative. I just don’t see it now in year 2 or 3 of this new building. They want to capitalize on revenue and expanding the base. Now, teams try to get buy in from their fans by announcing changes (ie Rangers) are coming. I would that as part of a larger transition. Team is going in ‘y’ direction and we have hired ‘x’ guy to do it type of thing.

It doesn’t matter what year of the building they’re in. If they don’t give the fans a reason to believe they can legitimately contend for the cup they will stop buying tickets. There’s no blind loyalty from Isles fans and giving them a new building in Nassau County meant nothing to the fans after just 1 year.

 

[Mike C]

It doesn’t matter what year of the building they’re in. If they don’t give the fans a reason to believe they can legitimately contend for the cup they will stop buying tickets. There’s no blind loyalty from Isles fans and giving them a new building in Nassau County meant nothing to the fans after just 1 year.

Just remember what Katie's uncle said

"In Lou Lamoriello we trust"

Very confidence inspiring!

 

[LeapOnOver]

I'm with you. This is a bubble team and the last thing I want is paying for short term at the TDL when there really isn't that much hope they'll go far in the playoffs.

Romanov style trades are the way to go, but they can't trade away 1st round picks every year. Keep it this year and look for upgrades elsewhere. Retool in the summer by starting move the old core out, so you can have a young up and coming team when Barzal, Dobson etc are entering their prime.

I don't really get the "not much hope they would go far in the playoffs" when this team has proved time and time again that they are built for the playoffs. Seems like revisionist history to me.

All the good teams trade for rentals to shoot their shot. If we are squarely in the playoffs come that time, I expect Lou to do the same as all the other good teams.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

I don't really get the "not much hope they would go far in the playoffs" when this team has proved time and time again that they are built for the playoffs. Seems like revisionist history to me.

All the good teams trade for rentals to shoot their shot. If we are squarely in the playoffs come that time, I expect Lou to do the same as all the other good teams.

The negativity is your typical negative people chirping without a clue.

Nothing has changed here from my outlook on this season. Just need to get to the playoffs and they will be a force to be reckoned with as is. It will be a tight race but just look what they have done to arguably the 3 best teams in the NHL on the road with all their injuries. 2-0-1. Very promising. The Carolina game was the worst game of the year but again, injuries, back to back nights after a grueling game while Carolina was sitting back waiting with 3 days rest.

I am not saying this team is a lock for the playoffs but there is probably only is one in the Eastern Conference right now up in Boston. The Devils seem to look vulnerable. As we head into the second half, things should tighten up And will be very interesting.

18-13-1 37 points vs
13-13-6 32 points

 

[replayer]

And what do you think is going to happen to the attendance if the team stays on the mediocrity merry go round of wild card spots and early playoff exits?

They were a couple of shots away from getting to the Cup Finals two seasons in a row. Last year was crap, of course, but "early playoff exists" is not a valid description of the last few years.