Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Mr Misunderstood]

Watching Kadri tonight. He is skilled and quick, he would most certainly help this offense and PP. The 7 years may be the dealbreaker. He does a lot of good things on the ice and doesn't take many shifts off; his -8 is a function of the Flames not playing to their potential IMHO.

I believe we were discussing how we are both upset with the level of talent Lou has been able to add to this roster while being GM.

But, we know that Lou was attempting to bring in Kadri this past summer. We know that he attempted to bring in Panarin. He was linked to a JT Miller trade (until the leak crushed that deal).

So overall, it's not for lack of trying. However, trying can only get you so far, results are what matter.

It's obvious that Lou faces an uphill battle when trying to acquire talent via UFA to the Island for whatever reason (the previous stink of the NYI, taxes, players not wanting to live in the 'burbs, etc) so now he has to shift his focus to trades.

Now we land on someone like Horvat who is a talented player that is available. Available talented players are going to come with their warts (otherwise they wouldn't be available) and maybe a bad contract. You also have to give to get, so we're going to have to part ways with picks and shiny prospects.

In the end, Lou probably knows the roster isn't talented enough to win a Cup. He's not getting any younger, he's not able to acquire high-end talent in Free Agency so he needs to trade.

We can't hammer him for not getting UFA's and then also hammer him for "bad" trades. In order to get more talented you have to do one or both. UFA is out, so trades are the only resource left.

Sorry, rambling over...

 

[IslesNorway]

I believe we were discussing how we are both upset with the level of talent Lou has been able to add to this roster while being GM.

But, we know that Lou was attempting to bring in Kadri this past summer. We know that he attempted to bring in Panarin. He was linked to a JT Miller trade (until the leak crushed that deal).

So overall, it's not for lack of trying. However, trying can only get you so far, results are what matter.

It's obvious that Lou faces an uphill battle when trying to acquire talent via UFA to the Island for whatever reason (the previous stink of the NYI, taxes, players not wanting to live in the 'burbs, etc) so now he has to shift his focus to trades.

Now we land on someone like Horvat who is a talented player that is available. Available talented players are going to come with their warts (otherwise they wouldn't be available) and maybe a bad contract. You also have to give to get, so we're going to have to part ways with picks and shiny prospects.

In the end, Lou probably knows the roster isn't talented enough to win a Cup. He's not getting any younger, he's not able to acquire high-end talent in Free Agency so he needs to trade.

We can't hammer him for not getting UFA's and then also hammer him for "bad" trades. In order to get more talented you have to do one or both. UFA is out, so trades are the only resource left.

Sorry, rambling over...

I agree that it's not for want of trying, and it's a dog eat dog world out there. The main problem with signing UFAs is that there's always another team more desperate who's willing to give a more outrageous deal to someone. So do you join the carousel or try to be sensible?

Lou (and whoever succeeds him) needs to tread a little carefully here because the "old core" of Lee, Nelson, Bailey etc. have one season left, two at the most. When they are UFAs (and too old) Barzal will be coming into his prime. Then what? Do we go for broke now and trade for the likes of Taransenko or Kane and sign them to extensions? Or sign aging UFAs to overpriced, lengthy deals that we are bound to regret? Before we know it we have a total rebuild on our hands with our "young core" of Barzal, Pulock, Pelech, Romanov and Dobson entering or in their prime.

If he is to trade for talent, then going the Romanov is the way to go. I've not much of a problem trading picks for young talented players like that, but I'd rather not see us break the bank for another 33+ player.

 

[BelovedIsles]

aside from his skill level, i've always liked the effort he brings. his nasty edge and swagger is an element this NYI team is lacking

Yup, he works out there. He's constantly moving his feet. I have a soft spot for players that make you fight for every inch of the ice.

 

[BelovedIsles]

I believe we were discussing how we are both upset with the level of talent Lou has been able to add to this roster while being GM.

But, we know that Lou was attempting to bring in Kadri this past summer. We know that he attempted to bring in Panarin. He was linked to a JT Miller trade (until the leak crushed that deal).

So overall, it's not for lack of trying. However, trying can only get you so far, results are what matter.

It's obvious that Lou faces an uphill battle when trying to acquire talent via UFA to the Island for whatever reason (the previous stink of the NYI, taxes, players not wanting to live in the 'burbs, etc) so now he has to shift his focus to trades.

Now we land on someone like Horvat who is a talented player that is available. Available talented players are going to come with their warts (otherwise they wouldn't be available) and maybe a bad contract. You also have to give to get, so we're going to have to part ways with picks and shiny prospects.

In the end, Lou probably knows the roster isn't talented enough to win a Cup. He's not getting any younger, he's not able to acquire high-end talent in Free Agency so he needs to trade.

We can't hammer him for not getting UFA's and then also hammer him for "bad" trades. In order to get more talented you have to do one or both. UFA is out, so trades are the only resource left.

Sorry, rambling over...

Lou limited himself by locking in a few middle-6 forwards. Had he not signed Palms, for example, he would have had the financial latitude to close deals on UFAs. The flexibility to acquire Johnny G. or Kadri. He's going to run into the same issue this summer (unless he figures out how to jettison Beau, Bailey, or even Lee). He has also failed to shed salary to upgrade the forward talent. this may not be the premier destination for UFAs, but I do believe they are more inclined to sign here after the success the team has had, the proximity to NYC, Barzal signing long-term, and the new building.

He's also failed to make that trade to upgrade the forward talent. As you alluded to, this is an outcome-driven business. In this regard, he hasn't produced, which IMHO, is the one hurdle to this team being in the Cup conversation, and it frustrates the heck out of me.

 

[Mike C]

I believe we were discussing how we are both upset with the level of talent Lou has been able to add to this roster while being GM.

But, we know that Lou was attempting to bring in Kadri this past summer. We know that he attempted to bring in Panarin. He was linked to a JT Miller trade (until the leak crushed that deal).

So overall, it's not for lack of trying. However, trying can only get you so far, results are what matter.

It's obvious that Lou faces an uphill battle when trying to acquire talent via UFA to the Island for whatever reason (the previous stink of the NYI, taxes, players not wanting to live in the 'burbs, etc) so now he has to shift his focus to trades.

Now we land on someone like Horvat who is a talented player that is available. Available talented players are going to come with their warts (otherwise they wouldn't be available) and maybe a bad contract. You also have to give to get, so we're going to have to part ways with picks and shiny prospects.

In the end, Lou probably knows the roster isn't talented enough to win a Cup. He's not getting any younger, he's not able to acquire high-end talent in Free Agency so he needs to trade.

We can't hammer him for not getting UFA's and then also hammer him for "bad" trades. In order to get more talented you have to do one or both. UFA is out, so trades are the only resource left.

Sorry, rambling over...

If Lou stood on ceremony and didn't get Miller because the deal "leaked" and he would have made the same deal if the cat didn't get out of the bag then shame on him for letting his pride and 19th century mindset restrict him from giving everyone a better product.

If that's truly the case, maybe the team does indeed need a new voice

 

[Mike C]

Don't be touchy, we all need to laugh at ourselves at times!

At times or in my case Most of the time!

When we laugh at ourselves, it gives us leeway to laugh at everyone else!

I think if Beau was in the trade, being that he's on the hook for 4 million next season, adding Horvat isn't crazy.

Would need everyone to participate money wise but it could be done. I'd assume Varly is a 2 million dollar man on 2 years. Mayfield getting mid threes for more years. Whally probably a two year bridge in the high 1's or low 2's.

Horvat would be a good guy to partner with Barzy and if he came in at 7.75 it's doable. Would also provide these same parameters to Kane btw.

I wouldn't mind Nelson with Barzal and Horvat anchoring 2nd line

Now that Rangers are asserting themselves up the standings, I would be very surprised if Kane did not end up there.

 

[Throttle]

Lou limited himself by locking in a few middle-6 forwards. Had he not signed Palms, for example, he would have had the financial latitude to close deals on UFAs. The flexibility to acquire Johnny G. or Kadri. He's going to run into the same issue this summer (unless he figures out how to jettison Beau, Bailey, or even Lee). He has also failed to shed salary to upgrade the forward talent. this may not be the premier destination for UFAs, but I do believe they are more inclined to sign here after the success the team has had, the proximity to NYC, Barzal signing long-term, and the new building.

He's also failed to make that trade to upgrade the forward talent. As you alluded to, this is an outcome-driven business. In this regard, he hasn't produced, which IMHO, is the one hurdle to this team being in the Cup conversation, and it frustrates the heck out of me.

If he didn’t sign Palms, then he went from Eberle (-25g), no Palms, then where was that 20G plus coming from for a team that lacked scoring under Trotz? Walstrom? Ha. Or some $1M scrub like Sonny Milano? Ha ha.

Here’s the deal, as Understood identified the Isles are not in the premium game for players, no matter new building, yada, yada, that just put them on a level playing vs putting them above anyone. Barzal is not Crosby and no one is signing with the Isles to want to play with Barzal.

And when the Isles do go UFA, they, well, have to overpay. So, that inherently forces the cap issue. Lou resigns his own guys bc he KNOWS he’s not covering for a like player for similar money in UFA and you can’t keep trading for every player.

The biggest UFA to sign with the Isles in 30 years has been Varly bc of Lou, yup, a starting goaltender The team badly needed one for years. Oh, he also got that Russian guy to come over too.

Johnny Trademark wasn’t signing with the Isles - that’s all made up stuff for clicks. Signing Kadri to that deal? My lord would fans be all over Lou’s arse in 2-3 years when he’s hogging cap room worse than Bailey. But, hey, at least Lou did something…

Fire Lou, retire Lou, whatever, but very likely Isles end up with LESS credibility and influence in the league when his replacement (his son or not) takes over and it ain’t gonna be because Lou messed up the cap situation…gonna be real fun to see that happen in Isles fandom.

 

[Mike C]

If he didn’t sign Palms, then he went from Eberle (-25g), no Palms, then where was that 20G plus coming from for a team that lacked scoring under Trotz? Walstrom? Ha. Or some $1M scrub like Sonny Milano? Ha ha.

Here’s the deal, as Understood identified the Isles are not in the premium game for players, no matter new building, yada, yada, that just put them on a level playing vs putting them above anyone. Barzal is not Crosby and no one is signing with the Isles to want to play with Barzal.

And when the Isles do go UFA, they, well, have to overpay. So, that inherently forces the cap issue. Lou resigns his own guys bc he KNOWS he’s not covering for a like player for similar money in UFA and you can’t keep trading for every player.

The biggest UFA to sign with the Isles in 30 years has been Varly bc of Lou, yup, a starting goaltender The team badly needed one for years. Oh, he also got that Russian guy to come over too.

Johnny Trademark wasn’t signing with the Isles - that’s all made up stuff for clicks. Signing Kadri to that deal? My lord would fans be all over Lou’s arse in 2-3 years when he’s hogging cap room worse than Bailey. But, hey, at least Lou did something…

Fire Lou, retire Lou, whatever, but very likely Isles end up with LESS credibility and influence in the league when his replacement (his son or not) takes over and it ain’t gonna be because Lou messed up the cap situation…gonna be real fun to see that happen in Isles fandom.

whatever creates the fun, i'm in!!

 

[Big L]

At times or in my case Most of the time!

When we laugh at ourselves, it gives us leeway to laugh at everyone else!


I wouldn't mind Nelson with Barzal and Horvat anchoring 2nd line

Now that Rangers are asserting themselves up the standings, I would be very surprised if Kane did not end up there.

You think if Kane is traded to the rags it’s just a rental or they get a multi year deal done?

 

[LeapOnOver]

Lou limited himself by locking in a few middle-6 forwards. Had he not signed Palms, for example, he would have had the financial latitude to close deals on UFAs. The flexibility to acquire Johnny G. or Kadri. He's going to run into the same issue this summer (unless he figures out how to jettison Beau, Bailey, or even Lee). He has also failed to shed salary to upgrade the forward talent. this may not be the premier destination for UFAs, but I do believe they are more inclined to sign here after the success the team has had, the proximity to NYC, Barzal signing long-term, and the new building.

He's also failed to make that trade to upgrade the forward talent. As you alluded to, this is an outcome-driven business. In this regard, he hasn't produced, which IMHO, is the one hurdle to this team being in the Cup conversation, and it frustrates the heck out of me.

This is the problem. If he hadn't traded for Palmeiri, we aren't looking at a deep playoff run that year (or we traded for a rental we lost) and are back in the same boat. We wouldn't be looking to add so badly if we didn't have Palmeiri . They have all built on to the Islander's success. We are always going to need a +1 to stay competitive at the trade deadline, it's the nature of the beast. It's either add the plus ones and go for it, or don't improve your team and stay bubbled.

Lou has had the opportunity to just add Pageau and Palms as rentals. We needed to add those players to have success. So with that fact out of the way, are we saying we would have rather paid the steep rental price and not extended them? I'm honestly asking, because I don't even know my own answer to that. I feel like if any player of above average talent and willing to sign we need to do it, because I don't honestly ever remember signing a superstar in UFA in my lifetime. It's always been the Doug Weights, Andrew Ladds, Bill Guerins of the world and never the studs that we get. I can't even remember one....ever.

 

[NC 1972]

I believe we were discussing how we are both upset with the level of talent Lou has been able to add to this roster while being GM.

But, we know that Lou was attempting to bring in Kadri this past summer. We know that he attempted to bring in Panarin. He was linked to a JT Miller trade (until the leak crushed that deal).

So overall, it's not for lack of trying. However, trying can only get you so far, results are what matter.

It's obvious that Lou faces an uphill battle when trying to acquire talent via UFA to the Island for whatever reason (the previous stink of the NYI, taxes, players not wanting to live in the 'burbs, etc) so now he has to shift his focus to trades.

Now we land on someone like Horvat who is a talented player that is available. Available talented players are going to come with their warts (otherwise they wouldn't be available) and maybe a bad contract. You also have to give to get, so we're going to have to part ways with picks and shiny prospects.

In the end, Lou probably knows the roster isn't talented enough to win a Cup. He's not getting any younger, he's not able to acquire high-end talent in Free Agency so he needs to trade.

We can't hammer him for not getting UFA's and then also hammer him for "bad" trades. In order to get more talented you have to do one or both. UFA is out, so trades are the only resource left.

Sorry, rambling over...

You said "bad" trades if they are then yes he can be hammered for them , bad trades too much money too long a term not enough talent that can be criticized. Does Lou's age supersede the proper course of action to place this franchise in the best position to win a cup?

 

[The Real JT]

You think if Kane is traded to the rags it’s just a rental or they get a multi year deal done?

As much as it pains me to say, Kane could put the Rags over the top.

Trading for Kane will cost a pretty penny and he controls his destination. For that cost, I doubt any team will sacrifice what I’ll guess is 2 high level assets for a single playoff run without a plan to resign him. He’s going to the Rags and will sign another contract with them.

If there were futures on this happening, I’d be all in.

 

[leeroggy]

You said "bad" trades if they are then yes he can be hammered for them , bad trades too much money too long a term not enough talent that can be criticized. Does Lou's age supersede the proper course of action to place this franchise in the best position to win a cup?

I wonder how many people who cite Lou's age as a problem also voted for our now 80-year old President?


Just asking for a friend . . .

 

[Mike C]

You think if Kane is traded to the rags it’s just a rental or they get a multi year deal done?

I'm thinking the price they pay will be steep so they'd probably want to get a deal done. Kane likes the big city life..... the MSG limelight plus his affection for Panerin makes me think he would want to be there especially because his addition makes them more of a cup contender if not favorite

A buddy of mine who lives in chitown speculates that a first plus either Kakko or Lafreniere would be a starting point

 

[Mike C]

This is the problem. If he hadn't traded for Palmeiri, we aren't looking at a deep playoff run that year (or we traded for a rental we lost) and are back in the same boat. We wouldn't be looking to add so badly if we didn't have Palmeiri . They have all built on to the Islander's success. We are always going to need a +1 to stay competitive at the trade deadline, it's the nature of the beast. It's either add the plus ones and go for it, or don't improve your team and stay bubbled.

Lou has had the opportunity to just add Pageau and Palms as rentals. We needed to add those players to have success. So with that fact out of the way, are we saying we would have rather paid the steep rental price and not extended them? I'm honestly asking, because I don't even know my own answer to that. I feel like if any player of above average talent and willing to sign we need to do it, because I don't honestly ever remember signing a superstar in UFA in my lifetime. It's always been the Doug Weights, Andrew Ladds, Bill Guerins of the world and never the studs that we get. I can't even remember one....ever.

I had no issue extending Palmieri but the 4 years was my concern. Obviously Lou didn't think he'd be an inconsistent player and an injury waiting to happen

Pageau is an asset....good player, hard worker, tough, versatile. His extension is a non issue for me other than to say I'm glad he's here

 

[Mike C]

I wonder how many people who cite Lou's age as a problem also voted for our now 80-year old President?


Just asking for a friend . . .

My cousin said that the alternatives to Lou are younger and more palatable and varied than the only other option in the other scenerio you outlined. Many felt it was like choosing the painless lethal injection or the firing squad

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

As much as it pains me to say, Kane could put the Rags over the top.

Trading for Kane will cost a pretty penny and he controls his destination. For that cost, I doubt any team will sacrifice what I’ll guess is 2 high level assets for a single playoff run without a plan to resign him. He’s going to the Rags and will sign another contract with them.

If there were futures on this happening, I’d be all in.

I’m not saying they are comparable when I say this but id rather roll dice on Tarasenko then Kane. He fits better with Barzal and with the other Russian players here I’m sure he’d transition well and want to stay even.

 

[WangMustGo]

I’m not saying they are comparable when I say this but id rather roll dice on Tarasenko then Kane. He fits better with Barzal and with the other Russian players here I’m sure he’d transition well and want to stay even.

If it were only between Kane and Tarasenko, give me Kane all day. Sure Tarasenko may be a better fit with Barzal, but Kane is a far better player. I think at some point the Blues will get hot and comfortably be in a playoff spot, at that point i dont think Tarasenko will be going anywhere.

My #1 player that could potentially be available is Meier. He is a very good skater, physical, can put the puck in the net. Still young enough that a long term contract should not be an issue on the backend of the deal. He would fit perfectly with this core. I think he is easily a 40+ goal scorer with Barzal and gives the Isles a dynamic 1st line.

 

[IslesNorway]

As much as it pains me to say, Kane could put the Rags over the top.

Trading for Kane will cost a pretty penny and he controls his destination. For that cost, I doubt any team will sacrifice what I’ll guess is 2 high level assets for a single playoff run without a plan to resign him. He’s going to the Rags and will sign another contract with them.

If there were futures on this happening, I’d be all in.

Rags always seem to get their guy at a discount. It'll be a1st, 3rd line plugger and okay prospect going the other way. And everyone will go "was that all it took???". Yes, for the Rags it is not everyone else.

 

[MJF]

Rags always seem to get their guy at a discount. It'll be a1st, 3rd line plugger and okay prospect going the other way. And everyone will go "was that all it took???". Yes, for the Rags it is not everyone else.

The Rags are universally thought of as close to winning it all. We're not.

 

[The Real JT]

I had no issue extending Palmieri but the 4 years was my concern. Obviously Lou didn't think he'd be an inconsistent player and an injury waiting to happen

Pageau is an asset....good player, hard worker, tough, versatile. His extension is a non issue for me other than to say I'm glad he's here

So since you brought JGP into the conversation:

Horvat for JGP + Bolduc

Is that enough and would you do it?

 

[Mike C]

So since you brought JGP into the conversation:

Horvat for JGP + Bolduc

Is that enough and would you do it?

Leap mentioned JGP and Palms extensions. I was commenting on his observations

I might try and push Beau in the deal and hang on to Pageau especially considering that getting Horvat would likely mean a shift to wing for either Nelson or Barzal. I am 100 ignorant of our guys below the NHL level other than what I saw in pre season so I'm not qualified to comment on Bolduc

 

[The Real JT]

Leap mentioned JGP and Palms extensions. I was commenting on his observations

I might try and push Beau in the deal and hang on to Pageau especially considering that getting Horvat would likely mean a shift to wing for either Nelson or Barzal. I am 100 ignorant of our guys below the NHL level other than what I saw in pre season so I'm not qualified to comment on Bolduc

Hey, I am not qualified to comment on Bolduc, but I’m still doing it. Go ahead and give it a shot.

As far as Beau goes, his contract is not cheap and although he still has that dreaded word “potential”, I doubt he’s worth very much more than a small sweetener in a deal. Hardly even that unfortunately.

 

[Mike C]

Hey, I am not qualified to comment on Bolduc, but I’m still doing it. Go ahead and give it a shot.

As far as Beau goes, his contract is not cheap and although he still has that dreaded word “potential”, I doubt he’s worth very much more than a small sweetener in a deal. Hardly even that unfortunately.

My hope with Beau is the age and change of scenery angle might make him enticing to someone. I think from my seat, we've waited long enough for him.

 

[BelovedIsles]

This is the problem. If he hadn't traded for Palmeiri, we aren't looking at a deep playoff run that year (or we traded for a rental we lost) and are back in the same boat. We wouldn't be looking to add so badly if we didn't have Palmeiri . They have all built on to the Islander's success. We are always going to need a +1 to stay competitive at the trade deadline, it's the nature of the beast. It's either add the plus ones and go for it, or don't improve your team and stay bubbled.

Lou has had the opportunity to just add Pageau and Palms as rentals. We needed to add those players to have success. So with that fact out of the way, are we saying we would have rather paid the steep rental price and not extended them? I'm honestly asking, because I don't even know my own answer to that. I feel like if any player of above average talent and willing to sign we need to do it, because I don't honestly ever remember signing a superstar in UFA in my lifetime. It's always been the Doug Weights, Andrew Ladds, Bill Guerins of the world and never the studs that we get. I can't even remember one....ever.

I'm fine with the trade for Palms, it's the signing; Palms has always had an injury hx.. It's also the signing of Beau, he miscalculated thinking Beau would've blossomed (I never saw Beau taking that next step). It's also not doing something with Bailey's 5 mil. I'm fine with Pageau, a 3rd-line, all-around center was badly needed and he's still very much in his prime. Lou's locked himself into too many middle-6 players, now he doesn't have the space to sign/trade for an elite forward. Hopefully he can do something with Bailey this offseason to create cap latitude. I see the most decline in Bailey's game. As a result, we see a mediocre/above avg. team, but not a true Cup contender.