Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Skidrow11]

Yes, we can theorize about such things and ultimately, they may play a role. Sure.

Most disappointing for me in this Bellows situation is that we did not find a way to make an asset out of a former first round pick.

Be it at the end of Snow's tenure or now throughout Lou's, this team simply NEVER makes a timely decision that a certain prospect isn't going to fit or make it here, and then at least parlays him into another form of futures.

It hurts immensely seeing the likes of Dal Colle, Ho-Sang, and now Bellows all become nothing for us when each showed something along the way while facing very uphill odds in cracking the Isles' line-up. Heck, maybe they could have turned a guy like Wilde into a late rounder had they looked to move him right when the initial news came out about the vaccination policy and his stance in light thereof?

There simply is no selling while high on a hunch for this team. This franchise just does not do it. It never seeks that route.

And interestingly, it almost always seems like there are posters here who denote a time when a player's value is probably as high as it's going to get while the NHL path seemed somewhat blocked within the NYI organization.

- Dal Colle, long in the prospect tooth, had a PPG AHL season, but was part of a LW logjam with this club.
- Ho-Sang hadn't been too shabby in call-ups, but clearly wasn't a Trotz player (among other things).
- Now Bellows, who was one of basically 2 (of 14) forward contracts who entered the season with an uncertain spot.

I think this is one of the things I really, really miss with this organization. We just don't turn assets we can't really use into another form of futures.

Lol...your worried about that quarter that fell out of your pocket. My goodness these names... make this argument if Mayfield walks, or even okiposo ...but that trio combined wouldn't even of gotten a 2nd round pick. Each of their value was likely a 5th or 6th round pick. Theres a 1000 dal colle's...90% of their perceived value was, they were 1st rounders. Unfortunately that doesn't translate if the player moves to another team. The new team won't care where they were drafted

 

[IslesNorway]

Bellows was never gonna pass through waivers and Lou knew that. I bet he simply wanted him off the team without having to acquire another player in return.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Lol...your worried about that quarter that fell out of your pocket. My goodness these names... make this argument if Mayfield walks, or even okiposo ...but that trio combined wouldn't even of gotten a 2nd round pick. Each of their value was likely a 5th or 6th round pick. Theres a 1000 dal colle's...90% of their perceived value was, they were 1st rounders. Unfortunately that doesn't translate if the player moves to another team. The new team won't care where they were drafted

Shilling for poor asset management...

Not a good look.

Gettin' paid for that?

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Bellows was never gonna pass through waivers and Lou knew that. I bet he simply wanted him off the team without having to acquire another player in return.

Or he felt the price tag would get Bellows through waivers...

Or he had a move in place should Bellows get through waivers...

Clear is, he was willing to see Bellows get snagged. It was a risk he obviously was open to taking.

Was signing Soshnikov worth it?

And more importantly, do you need to let it come that far with a former 1st rounder who put up 7 points in the final 12 games of the previous season and then had a positive World Championship tourney with Team USA?

We saw the logjam of 1-way contracts all summer long. Nothing was done.

Now you just throw this asset into the wind???

I've written about this at various junctures, but it is so so defeating seeing your favorite team constantly ready to move draft picks or watch highly drafted players fade out of the system for nothing, but never in the business of rehashing them.

Never!

Just never!

The only draft picks Lou has gotten in any deals since being here were the 3 second rounders involved with moving valuable NHL Dmen who he had to be moved due to cap crunch concerns.

Decent circumstantial returns, many of us felt, but he then turned around and essentially moved those picks to get rid of Ladd or slightly replace what he had moved for Greene and Pageau.

We NEVER rehash draft or prospect currency.

It never happens.

 

[Top Corner]

I’m not sad to see Bellows gone as I don’t see a lot of upside and his skating is a reason we need more speed. Like a few have Clearly suggested, Lou’s asset management is terrible and by the time he steps away we might almost consider Lou’s name amongst all the other less than good GM’s we’ve had. I don’t think we will like the state of our franchise when he does exit

 

[MJF]

Bellows was never gonna pass through waivers and Lou knew that. I bet he simply wanted him off the team without having to acquire another player in return.

Bellows was passed on by 26 teams yesterday. The 27th team was desperate for healthy bodies.

There's a good chance Bellows would have cleared waivers, especially if hot mess teams like Vancouver and Anaheim passed on him.

 

[saintunspecified]

Shilling for poor asset management...

Not a good look.

Gettin' paid for that?

Please.

So, yes, it would have been optimal had Lamoriello traded Bellows when it looked like he finally turned a corner in the AHL. It would have looked... interesting if he had done that, and then have the new org get hit with the news of the suspension.

Ho-Sang might have been dealt for a late-round pick upon Lamoriello getting hired. LIke a 7th, maybe. I really pulled for the guy, but for whatever reason (and I think some of them were likely his fault, and some of the were likely not his fault) he lost his commitment to becoming a NHL player. It happens.

Could NYI have dealt Dal Colle for a 5th during the offseason of 2019? Maybe.

Picking Wilde at all was a big mistake, and I would love to hear why LL felt okay picking a player who had demomitted from two college programs within months, and why. I'm curious what evidence there is *after* the vaccination suspension that he had any value at all. I mean, if it was possible to find a MAGA GM who would trade for Wilde to make a statement, then I agree that not making that deal was a mistake. But, lol, at least tell me who might've traded for him.

Drafting Wilde was a mistake way bigger than somehow failing to recoup pennies on depreciated assets. And even that mistake wasn't as big as the really big ones - failing to acqurie Panarin, and finding a way to retain Toews (though I think it would have been really hard, and also that Trotz is partially to blame on that one).

 

[MJF]

Shilling for poor asset management...

Not a good look.

Gettin' paid for that?

No, just pointing out that this is another case of prospect hugging.

 

[Mike C]

I’m not said to see Bellows gone as I don’t see a lot of upside and his skating is a reason we need more speed. Like a few have Clearly suggested, Lou’s asset management is terrible and by the time he steps away we might almost consider Lou’s name amongst all the other less than good GM’s we’ve had. I don’t think we will like the state of our franchise when he does exit

Not sure we like the state of the franchise now, let alone when he exits!

 

[seafoam]

Or he felt the price tag would get Bellows through waivers...

Or he had a move in place should Bellows get through waivers...

Clear is, he was willing to see Bellows get snagged. It was a risk he obviously was open to taking.

Was signing Soshnikov worth it?

And more importantly, do you need to let it come that far with a former 1st rounder who put up 7 points in the final 12 games of the previous season and then had a positive World Championship tourney with Team USA?

We saw the logjam of 1-way contracts all summer long. Nothing was done.

Now you just throw this asset into the wind???

I've written about this at various junctures, but it is so so defeating seeing your favorite team constantly ready to move draft picks or watch highly drafted players fade out of the system for nothing, but never in the business of rehashing them.

Never!

Just never!

The only draft picks Lou has gotten in any deals since being here were the 3 second rounders involved with moving valuable NHL Dmen who he had to be moved due to cap crunch concerns.

Decent circumstantial returns, many of us felt, but he then turned around and essentially moved those picks to get rid of Ladd or slightly replace what he had moved for Greene and Pageau.

We NEVER rehash draft or prospect currency.

It never happens.

When your mindset is to stash prospects in the minors for multiple years, you’re not building an environment where your draft picks are making roster players expendable for trade.

That, and Lou’s loyalty to players leads him to holding onto players much longer than he should, getting him into positions where he has to pay to move money instead of getting futures back.

If the “system” is so strong, and the locker room is “so tight”, why can’t they integrate a guy like Holmstrom and why hasn’t a guy like Beauvillier broken through his sub 40 point self yet?

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I’m not said to see Bellows gone as I don’t see a lot of upside and his skating is a reason we need more speed. Like a few have Clearly suggested, Lou’s asset management is terrible and by the time he steps away we might almost consider Lou’s name amongst all the other less than good GM’s we’ve had. I don’t think we will like the state of our franchise when he does exit

This is a truly stupid comment.

 

[xECK29x]

Shilling for poor asset management...

Not a good look.

Gettin' paid for that?

Cmon Chap you are better than this

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Have the Islanders ever made a move, ANY move (such as waiving a fringe NHLer) that wasn't excoriated by some fans?

The most benign transaction gets people all worked up. We waive Bellows (gaining cap space BTW) and the freak-out fest begins. Terrible asset management! Lou's one of the worst GM's in history!

Sheesh...

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Cmon Chap you are better than this

I suppose I'm flattered...

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

When your mindset is to stash prospects in the minors for multiple years, you’re not building an environment where your draft picks are making roster players expendable for trade.

Some prospects, for sure.

Wasn't the case for Barzal (admittedly, the Snow era). And it wasn't the case for Dobson in this era. Heck, I think Wahlstrom's AHL time was rather minimal on the whole.

That, and Lou’s loyalty to players leads him to holding onto players much longer than he should, getting him into positions where he has to pay to move money instead of getting futures back.

I can't remember him paying to move a contract other than Ladd. But we all know that that was anchor no-one could turn into a plus.

Lou just doesn't rehash picks or make lateral trades. His trades to "upgrade the team" are basically always about moving futures.

If the “system” is so strong, and the locker room is “so tight”, why can’t they integrate a guy like Holmstrom and why hasn’t a guy like Beauvillier broken through his sub 40 point self yet?

I'm fairly certain Holmstrom will be getting his shot soon enough. The first opening among the top nine wingers is very likely going to see him get the call.

Speaking of Beau, what does he do if he's moved to a team like Montreal or Ottawa? Are those the types of environments that bring him into 40 or even 50-point land?

 

[leeroggy]

Some prospects, for sure.

Wasn't the case for Barzal (admittedly, the Snow era). And it wasn't the case for Dobson in this era. Heck, I think Wahlstrom's AHL time was rather minimal on the whole.



I can't remember him paying to move a contract other than Ladd. But we all know that that was anchor no-one could turn into a plus.

Lou just doesn't rehash picks or make lateral trades. His trades to "upgrade the team" are basically always about moving futures.



I'm fairly certain Holmstrom will be getting his shot soon enough. The first opening among the top nine wingers is very likely going to see him get the call.

Speaking of Beau, what does he do if he's moved to a team like Montreal or Ottawa? Are those the types of environments that bring him into 40 or even 50-point land?

If the Beau fans can't see he hasn't improved at all the last few years, I don't know what to say. He's added NOTHING to his skill set. If he can be swapped for a sniper, you need to explore it.

 

[seafoam]

Some prospects, for sure.

Wasn't the case for Barzal (admittedly, the Snow era). And it wasn't the case for Dobson in this era. Heck, I think Wahlstrom's AHL time was rather minimal on the whole.



I can't remember him paying to move a contract other than Ladd. But we all know that that was anchor no-one could turn into a plus.

Lou just doesn't rehash picks or make lateral trades. His trades to "upgrade the team" are basically always about moving futures.



I'm fairly certain Holmstrom will be getting his shot soon enough. The first opening among the top nine wingers is very likely going to see him get the call.

Speaking of Beau, what does he do if he's moved to a team like Montreal or Ottawa? Are those the types of environments that bring him into 40 or even 50-point land?

- Dobson benefited from Boychuk being forced to retire as well as the subsequent offloading of Toews and Leddy, which opened up an opportunity for an offensive defenseman on the back end. It also helped that he had tremendous post draft seasons in which he played a large role on Champions.

- In hindsight, I would have liked to see Lamoriello move Varlamov for a mid/late 1st round pick, which could have been used instead of the 13th overall for Romanov or someone of the like, or would have at least softened the blow of moving the 13th overall for Romanov.

- The fact of the matter is Sorokin is a Vezina contender and NYI had an opportunity to deal from a position of strength.

- I would have looked to trade Beavullier and Bellows last offseason for whatever they could have returned. I would have taken a 3rd round pick for 'Beau My God' and a 6th from "Chief Keef".

- I would have supplemented losing Beauvillier and Bellows by signing Kubalik who has a track record of scoring at the NHL level and has size. He's currently making 2.5M for one season. Beauvillier and Bellows were carrying a combined cap hit of 5.35M...Beauvillier has never scored 40+ points, Kubalik has at least scored 30+ goals.

 

[Throttle]

Pretty sure #13 has more playoff wins and did beat barkov head to head. Just mentioning some facts my ice capades friend.

Thank the lord Lou acquired Zajac and Palms bc ice capades was casper the ghost vs PIT, otherwise, those next two rounds don’t happen.

Probably 30+ GMs take Barkov at his performance/price vs Barzal’s performance/price.

Kid needs some wingers


Just not the ones named Gaudreau or Kadri though.

How does Barzal produce with the same crap wingers in the post season, but can’t do so in the regular season?

 

[Throttle]

Bellows was never gonna pass through waivers and Lou knew that. I bet he simply wanted him off the team without having to acquire another player in return.

We don’t know Lou knew that… but, if that were true and saw PHI needed some help, then he played his cards right to remove an underperforming player off the books.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

We don’t know Lou knew that… but, if that were true and saw PHI needed some help, then he played his cards right to remove an underperforming player off the books.

No. He should've traded Bellows for a first rounder. Asset management...

 

[mm11]

Thank the lord Lou acquired Zajac and Palms bc ice capades was casper the ghost vs PIT, otherwise, those next two rounds don’t happen.

Probably 30+ GMs take Barkov at his performance/price vs Barzal’s performance/price.


How does Barzal produce with the same crap wingers in the post season, but can’t do so in the regular season?

Guess it goes both ways as Barkov was casper his whole career in the playoffs. not debating what other Gm's prefer, but keep in mind capades is younger and has some time to grow as a player. Do know Barkov was playing with a 115 point winger last year and now his numbers are hurting. Coincidence? Wonder how that 115 point winger would be next to capades? The post season is played differently, that's how capades does better so far in his relatively young career

 

[Foppberg]

Have the Islanders sports fan ever made a move, ANY move (such as waiving a fringe NHLer) that wasn't excoriated by some fans?

The most benign transaction gets people all worked up. We waive Bellows (gaining cap space BTW) and the freak-out fest begins. Terrible asset management! Lou's one of the worst GM's in history!

Sheesh...

Fixed your post sports fans are just crazy man. Especially a place like HF that is largely used by hockey fanatics.

The way I see it is people complaining about everything under the sun… It can definitely get annoying, nobody likes a chicken little, but it also just shows how much they care for the team.

 

[WangMustGo]

Thank the lord Lou acquired Zajac and Palms bc ice capades was casper the ghost vs PIT, otherwise, those next two rounds don’t happen.

Probably 30+ GMs take Barkov at his performance/price vs Barzal’s performance/price.


How does Barzal produce with the same crap wingers in the post season, but can’t do so in the regular season?

Yea Barkov is a top 5 center, but that doesnt mean Barzal isnt a great player himself.

Are you really complaining about Barzal raising his game in the playoffs? Thats a good thing.

 

[Throttle]

Guess it goes both ways as Barkov was casper his whole career in the playoffs. not debating what other Gm's prefer, but keep in mind capades is younger and has some time to grow as a player. Do know Barkov was playing with a 115 point winger last year and now his numbers are hurting. Coincidence? Wonder how that 115 point winger would be next to capades? The post season is played differently, that's how capades does better so far in his relatively young career

Well, there you go. FL built a regular season team that gets fancy stats, but can’t push through adversity. Lou built a team that certainly doesn’t get fancy stats beyond GA, but can push through adversity and go deeper. Barzal benefits from the team that Lou built (see Isles vs PIT), whereas Barkov does not get the same benefit, which is kinda why FL made the Tkachuk acquisition - they know they lack that element (and TOR just thinks they’ll eventually get it…).

 

[Mike C]

Thank the lord Lou acquired Zajac and Palms bc ice capades was casper the ghost vs PIT, otherwise, those next two rounds don’t happen.

Probably 30+ GMs take Barkov at his performance/price vs Barzal’s performance/price.


How does Barzal produce with the same crap wingers in the post season, but can’t do so in the regular season?

Playoff money