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Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

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Nizami Ganjavi said:
Yes. A good chunk of their "core" was drafted.
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That's true of every cup winner. Rantanen, MacKinnon, Landeskog, Makar, Newhook, and Byram are the six that were drafted by the team. Here's the point of the back and forth from my perspective using Colorado specifically as an example.

The initial claim was that any player who is a UFA to be should be traded the summer before if they're unwilling to sign with the club.

When Gaudreau didn't resign with the Calgary last summer, they should've traded BEFORE last season started. That way you don't have to make a much tougher situation if your team is in Cup contention.
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If Colorado followed this they would've traded Landeskog before the 2020-21 season because he didn't re-sign until just before free agency began for the 2021-22 season. That would mean Colorado would've needed to replace a ~65 point scorer via trade or draft to have the same level of skill up front.

Now, whether or not you believe Colorado was a "legit" contender at that time is something that could be debated, but they lost in the second round back to back years and lost in the first round the year before that (with a million misses predating that).

So should Colorado have traded Landeskog in the summer of 2020? Turns out the correct answer for them, as far as we can tell, was no, and they did the right thing by not trading Landeskog. Had Colorado traded Landeskog, they likely don't win the cup last year and are instead trying to figure out how to replace him. In the Tavares situation it turned out to be the wrong decision to not trade him.
 
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PK Cronin said:
That's true of every cup winner. Rantanen, MacKinnon, Landeskog, Makar, Newhook, and Byram are the six that were drafted by the team. Here's the point of the back and forth from my perspective using Colorado specifically as an example.

The initial claim was that any player who is a UFA to be should be traded the summer before if they're unwilling to sign with the club.

If Colorado followed this they would've traded Landeskog before the 2020-21 season because he didn't re-sign until just before free agency began for the 2021-22 season. That would mean Colorado would've needed to replace a ~65 point scorer via trade or draft to have the same level of skill up front.

Now, whether or not you believe Colorado was a "legit" contender at that time is something that could be debated, but they lost in the second round back to back years and lost in the first round the year before that (with a million misses predating that).

So should Colorado have traded Landeskog in the summer of 2020? Turns out the correct answer for them, as far as we can tell, was no, and they did the right thing by not trading Landeskog. Had Colorado traded Landeskog, they likely don't win the cup last year and are instead trying to figure out how to replace him. In the Tavares situation it turned out to be the wrong decision to not trade him.
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They also should've traded Kadri before the season, so they wouldn't have to deal with that pesky problem of potentially being in cup contention.
 
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Seph said:
They also should've traded Kadri before the season, so they wouldn't have to deal with that pesky problem of potentially being in cup contention.
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Yep, and that's before you get to players who are lower on the depth chart or we start talking about rentals at all.
 
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PK Cronin said:
Yep, and that's before you get to players who are lower on the depth chart or we start talking about rentals at all.
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Just immediately trade anyone if they don't sign within the first few months they're eligible to do so sounds like a recipe for a team no one would want to stick around and play for leading to a perpetual rebuild. Not to mention giving yourself such a short time line that you must make the trade within means you are less likely to get good value, even more so since you're trying to make the trade right after other teams loaded up on UFAs and re-signed their own guys, so cap space is at its highest premium of the year.

By this logic, if Huberdeau had needed another couple months to make his decision to extend, then Calgary should have traded him too.
 
LeapOnOver said:
Yet, how can you win a Stanley Cup without attracting at least a prime UFA from time to time? And how can you attract a prime UFA by sending the message that you'll trade them when they don't answer your ultimatum about re-signing before the season starts? I am listening to what you are saying, but it's so hard to get around the contradiction maybe I do end up tuning out.
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Seph said:
They also should've traded Kadri before the season, so they wouldn't have to deal with that pesky problem of potentially being in cup contention.
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those freaking teams, value winning over much everything else. what's it all coming to i ask you?
 
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PK Cronin said:
Where I disagreed with you is in your proclamation that every UFA to be should traded if they're unwilling to re-sign, because I think a single size approach is incorrect. You've clarified that in this post saying it's more nuanced which leads me to believe we're in agreement for the most part but the area of disagreement would be on what constitutes as a legitimate contender.
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Agree and to further...

  1. Much like the Tavares and Columbus Blue Jackets situations from years ago that I was clear on then...I've ALWAYS believed that if you're a Cup contender you ADD at the trade deadline.
  2. ...But if you're not then you sell pending UFAs who you know aren't returning.
  3. That said I literally think anyone is either ignorant or insane if they thought the 17-18 Isles were a "legitimate Cup contender."
  4. You should never let talents like Tavares (in their prime) walk out the door for zero. And to use the excuse, "Well they thought he was going to resign," is simply not good enough.

Nizami Ganjavi said:
Get a freakin grip dude and relax...

No team with cup aspirations is going to trade their franchise player. Period. (so yes, we're done here).
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Guess the Flames had no Cup aspirations for 22-23 when they traded Tkachuk 2 months ago.




(And calmer than you dude. Calmer than you...)
 
periferal said:
Agree and to further...

  1. Much like the Tavares and Columbus Blue Jackets situations from years ago that I was clear on then...I've ALWAYS believed that if you're a Cup contender you ADD at the trade deadline.
  2. ...But if you're not then you sell pending UFAs who you know aren't returning.
  3. That said I literally think anyone is either ignorant or insane if they thought the 17-18 Isles were a "legitimate Cup contender."
  4. You should never let talents like Tavares (in their prime) walk out the door for zero. And to use the excuse, "Well they thought he was going to resign," is simply not good enough.



Guess the Flames had no Cup aspirations for 22-23 when they traded Tkachuk 2 months ago.




(And calmer than you dude. Calmer than you...)
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As you said, it is nuanced. The 17-18 Islanders weren't cup contenders but I don't think the new ownership really had much of an appetite to dump their franchise player. But very fair to suggest they could have/should have. (And obviously in hindsight would have been the smart move)

As far as the Flames go, no I don't think they have legit cup aspirations heading into this season. But they certainly did last season. Which is why they didn't trade JG.
 
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periferal said:
You are seriously overrating free agency...And the role of trading players affecting it. Look at all the big/long-term UFA deals given out every summer. Most of them look average or worse a few years later, but more importantly...

How many teams over the past 20 years won a Cup BECAUSE of a UFA signing? The only one I can think that would be close would be Marian Hossa with the Blackhawks. That said pretty much every team wins a Cup because of a core of players that were established THROUGH THE DRAFT and the occasional trade.

And the team you tried to "mic drop" on with your last reply to me traded Seth Jones a year ago because he wouldn't resign with them, and yet would you look at that - One year later they sign the biggest UFA of this offseason. I guess bad PR only lasts a few months.

Sheesh.

At the end of the day if you could go back 5 years and you still wouldn't trade Tavares to do what's best for the Islanders franchise (knowing he's definitely walking) because of some overrated perception of how it would "look" then wholly shit.
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Because they didn't do it with Panarin and Bobrovsky... in a year they were much more competitive. How's it like living life in black and white, with ultimatums and only single right solutions? Is it taxing, or are you a happy guy?

And to be clear...this has nothing to do with Tavares. Entirely has to do with your silly assertion on Gaudreau that you keep doubling down on. And the only proof I need is that NO GM trades their star player in a year where they think they have a legitimate chance to play for the Stanley Cup. Not 1.
 
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I really f***ing hate this board sometimes!
Post something claiming only your POV is right.
Belittle anyone who thinks otherwise.
Poison the well
And When you’re wrong - it’s nuanced.
And don’t call me out because you are being childish!

Time to take a break.
 
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SI said:
I really f***ing hate this board sometimes!
Post something claiming only your POV is right.
Belittle anyone who thinks otherwise.
Poison the well
And When you’re wrong - it’s nuanced.
And don’t call me out because you are being childish!

Time to take a break.
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Gonna be like that with a lot of things, I imagine. Whenever there's debatable points up for contention, and one can just move the goal post to fit their narrative. They are bound to do it. I mean, Calgary was most definitely a Stanley Cup contender, but how can I prove it, lol. Instead I'm met with them not being a contender solidifying said opinion. Just have to roll your eyes sometimes and think to yourself, "why not try proving your point with something other than more opinions?" I just can't stand dishonest debating....I don't mind people disagreeing with me, but when they do it by insisting something I said is not the case when public opinion states otherwise...gotta call 'em out for it.
 
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LeapOnOver said:
Gonna be like that with a lot of things, I imagine. Whenever there's debatable points up for contention, and one can just move the goal post to fit their narrative. They are bound to do it. I mean, Calgary was most definitely a Stanley Cup contender, but how can I prove it, lol. Instead I'm met with them not being a contender solidifying said opinion. Just have to roll your eyes sometimes and think to yourself, "why not try proving your point with something other than more opinions?" I just can't stand dishonest debating....I don't mind people disagreeing with me, but when they do it by insisting something I said is not the case when public opinion states otherwise...gotta call 'em out for it.
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Agree 1000%.



If anyone was paying attention last year, Calgary looked absolutely primed to go far. There is no way you can guarantee to win the cup but all ingredients were there. I think Sutter who have killed Brad if he traded JG. And Calgary still thought they might have had him locked up earlier in the summer. Hell they are a better team now than last year with the moves they made.

It’s best to just move on. And know there are some here, who hear you.
 
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LeapOnOver said:
Gonna be like that with a lot of things, I imagine. Whenever there's debatable points up for contention, and one can just move the goal post to fit their narrative. They are bound to do it. I mean, Calgary was most definitely a Stanley Cup contender, but how can I prove it, lol. Instead I'm met with them not being a contender solidifying said opinion. Just have to roll your eyes sometimes and think to yourself, "why not try proving your point with something other than more opinions?" I just can't stand dishonest debating....I don't mind people disagreeing with me, but when they do it by insisting something I said is not the case when public opinion states otherwise...gotta call 'em out for it.
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Calgary was assuredly a Cup contender, especially after adding Toffoli. As I recall, a few of us had them in the finals if not winning it all in the playoff brackets.

Some might say Evander Kane bullied some high powered Flames into invisible men that series but to say they weren't a contender is wrong I feel
 
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Mike C said:
guy asked me one time a general question "do i want to be right or do i want to be happy" i told him "being right makes me happy" he tersely retorted "no it doesn't" hahaha

the conversation was generic in nature but was germane to husband/wife issues.....you being asked that question reminded me that my buddy was right.
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Reminds me of this discussion between Slartibartfast, and Arthur Dent on the topic of fjords.

“I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
"And are you?"
"No. That's where it all falls down, of course."
"Pity", said Arthur. "It sounded like rather a good lifestyle otherwise.”
 
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saintunspecified said:
Reminds me of this discussion between Slartibartfast, and Arthur Dent on the topic of fjords.

“I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
"And are you?"
"No. That's where it all falls down, of course."
"Pity", said Arthur. "It sounded like rather a good lifestyle otherwise.”
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There's a famous parrot that died 'pining' for the fjords . . . We couldn't ask him if he was happy
 
You can take the Leafs off the list of potential Mayfield destinations. Seems they found their RHD lmao. You can’t make this shit up lol

 
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