Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

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Looking back I do think the writing was on the wall with Tavares. I am unsure what was said behind closed doors though. I cannot see the isles holding on to that piece of shit if he was saying he wanted to truly test free agency though.
Even the worst GM (Chia?) wouldn’t hold onto a pending UFA under those circumstances unless their team was a strong favorite for the Cup and losing that player would impact their chances substantially.

The fault lies in Garth not reading the room. A local Toronto boy with his hometown girl weren’t likely to stay once he was unrestricted and suitors lined up. Even my wife who is marginally interested in hockey told me there’s no way he’s staying based on the above.
 
Even the worst GM (Chia?) wouldn’t hold onto a pending UFA under those circumstances unless their team was a strong favorite for the Cup and losing that player would impact their chances substantially.

The fault lies in Garth not reading the room. A local Toronto boy with his hometown girl weren’t likely to stay once he was unrestricted and suitors lined up. Even my wife who is marginally interested in hockey told me there’s no way he’s staying based on the above.
The way I remember it, Scott Malkin was the one who failed to read the room. He was the one who was negotiating, he was the one making monthly trips to California to meet with Tavares’ agent, and he was the one who told Snow not to trade him.

Snow botched many things in his time as GM, but the Tavares fiasco wasn’t one of them.
 
The way I remember it, Scott Malkin was the one who failed to read the room. He was the one who was negotiating, he was the one making monthly trips to California to meet with Tavares’ agent, and he was the one who told Snow not to trade him.

Snow botched many things in his time as GM, but the Tavares fiasco wasn’t one of them.
I’ll take your word on that but it really ruins my narrative.
 
The way I remember it, Scott Malkin was the one who failed to read the room. He was the one who was negotiating, he was the one making monthly trips to California to meet with Tavares’ agent, and he was the one who told Snow not to trade him.

Snow botched many things in his time as GM, but the Tavares fiasco wasn’t one of them.

Malkin definitely took over at some point, but was it at the start of the year? There was so much happening that season it's tough to recall the order in which things happened.
 
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I’ll take your word on that but it really ruins my narrative.
Maybe, but Scott Malkin really got caught with his pants down. Certainly did himself no favors that year.

Malkin definitely took over at some point, but was it at the start of the year? There was so much happening that season it's tough to recall the order in which things happened.
I think by December Malkin was making the monthly flights to SoCal.
 
The way I remember it, Scott Malkin was the one who failed to read the room. He was the one who was negotiating, he was the one making monthly trips to California to meet with Tavares’ agent, and he was the one who told Snow not to trade him.

Snow botched many things in his time as GM, but the Tavares fiasco wasn’t one of them.
That’s exactly it. Snow was out of the Tavares negotiations. Strictly ownership and from what I heard , the only thing
They kept harping on was the Isles were the only team that could offer him 8 years . They may have had better luck selling their commitment to building a winner
 
That’s exactly it. Snow was out of the Tavares negotiations. Strictly ownership and from what I heard , the only thing
They kept harping on was the Isles were the only team that could offer him 8 years . They may have had better luck selling their commitment to building a winner
Or being gracious losers with excellent handshaking technique with the advantage of American taxes vs Canadian

But alas....there is the cereal box picture and the pajama parties of the Ontario allure
 
Every situation is different.

So many players who are UFAs to be end up re-signing mid-season, the idea that they should all be traded before the season starts seems foolish. Some should, some shouldn't.


Not as foolish as letting players walk for nothing.


Show me a fan that could go back 5 years and would still replay the Tavares situation exactly the same way, and I'll show you the biggest fool of all.
 
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Looking back I do think the writing was on the wall with Tavares. I am unsure what was said behind closed doors though. I cannot see the isles holding on to that piece of shit if he was saying he wanted to truly test free agency though.


I wish we could give a bunch of guys truth serum. So many rumors. Supposedly Snow wanted to trade him and Malkin wouldn’t allow him to even entertain it.

Also, Bossy publicly stated on Montreal radio that if Tavares doesn’t re-sign he should be traded at the deadline. That’s when for some odd and strange reason he wasn’t around the organization anymore like he used to be.

Definitely put GMs and franchise on notice as a cautionary tale about pending UFAs.
 
I wish we could give a bunch of guys truth serum. So many rumors. Supposedly Snow wanted to trade him and Malkin wouldn’t allow him to even entertain it.

Also, Bossy publicly stated on Montreal radio that if Tavares doesn’t re-sign he should be traded at the deadline. That’s when for some odd and strange reason he wasn’t around the organization anymore like he used to be.

Definitely put GMs and franchise on notice as a cautionary tale about pending UFAs.

 
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My recollection is that people here were pretty confident at the time that Tavares would re-sign. But I guess I misread that because it seems like most people think he should have been traded at the deadline. My bad.

Don't forget that Malkin was working on developing a billion dollar arena project at the time. I realize he doesn't have the business acumen of all of us, but maybe he thought trading away the face of the franchise for picks would have been not so good, and ultimately more risky than taking the process all the way to the end (the couch by the pool the morning of UFA day) in an effort to re-sign the guy. And it was a bit of bad luck that Tavares happened to be a UFA during that crazy "shopping week" thing where he interviewed teams.

Ultimately, it all turned out for the best for us. And I suspect CGY may do better in the playoffs having "traded" Gaudreau for Kadri.
 
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Not as foolish as letting players walk for nothing.


Show me a fan that could go back 5 years and would still replay the Tavares situation exactly the same way, and I'll show you the biggest fool of all.

Well, you're wrong and I'm not talking about any specific player.
 
Yes, but as the GM of a professional franchise you simply cannot let it get to that point. If a player has been with your franchise for YEARS, how come he isn't willing to resign before the start of his last contract year? If that isn't enough of a warning that they will probably leave then you are simply asleep at the wheel.

The Flames should've moved Gaudreau before the start of last season the same way the Isles should've moved Tavares before the start of the 17-18 season. I keep thinking that the 2-3 very good assets the Isles would've gotten from that might've put us over the top in 20-21 when we were inches away from the finals.

Sometimes you take one step back to take 5 more significant ones forward. Elite talents should never leave any sports team for nothing when there's a very healthy trade market for them.
I don't really get it here sometimes. The Isles did this EXACT same thing with Buffalo and Vanek, yet the trade got ridiculed here immensely. Honestly, do you really think it's better to trade your star player with 1 year left on an expiring contract for pennies on the dollar rather than compete for the Stanley Cup? Buffalo's decision was easy as they were not a playoff team, but fans berated the trade here. I couldn't disagree with you more. Isles situation was different as it was easy to tell the playoffs weren't a reality at some point. I don't think I have every seen a team trade a franchise player on an expiring contract when they are competing for the Stanley Cup, EVER. Yet you make it seem like it's common sense and all GMS would do this. Please, tell me again why you are smarter than all the GMS in the NHL?
 
I didn't like the deal, especially considering the NYR had their back to the wall here.

At least the Rags don't get that pick if it's a top 10 pick.

But 2023 is looking a good 40 players deep as far as surefire NHLers are concerned.

That said, the Dallas organization is not especially deep with RHDs.
There's no such thing as a surefire NHLer. Well, there are ... if they remain healthy and on the right track, "certainties" but those are few and far between. The elite of the elite, which I don't think this draft has, or if it does, those players go maybe 2 deep. But I am skeptical even of that, Bedard looks good. Should be a very good NHLer. But he could pull a Wright this year for all we know. Unlikely, but not implausible. Everyone else are different levels of crapshoot. There certainly aren't any more or less in this draft than others. This draft does come with lot of hype though. Like the 2021 draft, except that was all negative hype really, and from the looks of it, 2021 will turn out better players than 2022.... or at least more of the good one.

Anyway, I think Dallas have... reasonably high expectations this year with Oettinger making huge strides last season, Bourque, Johnston and/or maybe Stankoven coming in to the team. March was a good addition.
But they needed a safe RD prospect I think. And I think they want him for this season, to play. I'm still not a huge fan of NIls. Not that I don't think he can become a top pair D man and possibly a top PP player, but I think his ceiling is fairly limited, with a higher floor. When the heart of your team is on the verge of retirement, Seguin, Benn, Pavelski etc It might make sense to make a move, take a risk for the hear and now, rather than relying on an unknown and unverifiable "best draft in decades".

At least as far as I'm concerned, this draft isn't so different from most. People making predictions that will never come true, people forgetting those predictions they failed at, only remembering those they were correct about, just immense hype and unrealistic expectations. So if they thought right now that a 1st round pick isn't worth quite as much as the hype suggests, which I also believe to be the case, then they sold highish and got an NHL ready young RD with a wicked shot. Not so bad..
 
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My recollection is that people here were pretty confident at the time that Tavares would re-sign. But I guess I misread that because it seems like most people think he should have been traded at the deadline. My bad.

I concur with your recollection at the time.

I think a number of regular posters here were firmly of the belief that he was re-signing with the Isles. Or at least, they were taking the situation much more chill than the threat of him walking away for absolutely nothing should have allowed them to be.

When he did walk, the feeling was then that he was naturally the bad guy for approaching and dealing with the situation in the manner he did. He duped all of Islanderville.

Of course, the realists among us, especially the handful that were pining for his being traded at the deadline if he hadn't re-signed by then, were absolutely furious with management for allowing this to take place. Especially in light of Snow's regular calming of the concerns, as if there was nothing to worry about.

That the Snow-era ended as a result thereof went to show that this handful wasn't the only ones thinking that way.

Ultimately, it all turned out for the best for us. And I suspect CGY may do better in the playoffs having "traded" Gaudreau for Kadri.

That is yet to be seen, of course.

I'd say never underestimate what it can mean to a team when, in essence, it trades out key spearheads of any recent success.

I mean, the last five years there have been about the evolution and production of Gaudreau, Monahan, and Tkachuk. What does their departure mean to Lindholm, Hanifin, Andersson, Backlund, etc.???

No matter how good they are, it's gonna take a while for Huberdeau, Kadri, and Weegar to step into their footsteps.
 
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There's no such thing as a surefire NHLer. Well, there are ... if they remain healthy and on the right track, "certainties" but those are few and far between. The elite of the elite, which I don't think this draft has, or if it does, those players go maybe 2 deep. But I am skeptical even of that, Bedard looks good. Should be a very good NHLer. But he could pull a Wright this year for all we know. Unlikely, but not implausible. Everyone else are different levels of crapshoot. There certainly aren't any more or less in this draft than others. This draft does come with lot of hype though. Like the 2021 draft, except that was all negative hype really, and from the looks of it, 2021 will turn out better players than 2022.... or at least more of the good one.

We here at this board have been here sooo long that we've long since left out the semantics. Naturally, nothing is surefire. But we make statements like this in the grand scheme of things.

In other words, for the 2023 draft, what I'd be saying is that aside from Bedard, Fantilli, and Mischkov at the top, we've got another 37 guys who are looking like MacTavish and Heiskanen style prospects as far as their NHL upside is concerned.

That's to point out just how massively promising this 23 draft is looking overall.

Anyway, I think Dallas have... reasonably high expectations this year with Oettinger making huge strides last season, Bourque, Johnston and/or maybe Stankoven coming in to the team. March was a good addition.
But they needed a safe RD prospect I think. And I think they want him for this season, to play. I'm still not a huge fan of NIls. Not that I don't think he can become a top pair D man and possibly a top PP player, but I think his ceiling is fairly limited, with a higher floor. When the heart of your team is on the verge of retirement, Seguin, Benn, Pavelski etc It might make sense to make a move, take a risk for the hear and now, rather than relying on an unknown and unverifiable "best draft in decades".

Dallas should be going for it now. Naturally. They also have a real nice prospect system.

Interesting though, to compare such things.

Dallas sent a non-top-10 pick in the heavily touted 2023 draft AND at least a 4th in 2025 for a very interesting and promising player in Lundkvist, who has what, 25 NHL games under his belt? And Lundkvist was demanding a trade.

The Islanders sent the 13th overall in a run-of-the-mill draft for the already established Romanov AND an early 4th rounder (Isaiah George, who we're starting to gush about already). And it wasn't like Montreal was dealing with a Romanov who wanted out.

They're both 22.

Interesting.
At least as far as I'm concerned, this draft isn't so different from most.

For each his own, but this assessment is counter to what we're all hearing from the big publications and independents in the scouting world. And as opposed to most fans, these agencies have access to extended materials to place all these players under the microscope with.

It's a special draft. Look forward to it!

People making predictions that will never come true, people forgetting those predictions they failed at, only remembering those they were correct about, just immense hype and unrealistic expectations. So if they thought right now that a 1st round pick isn't worth quite as much as the hype suggests, which I also believe to be the case, then they sold highish and god an NHL ready young RD with a wicked shot. Not so bad..

It's fine. The hockey world knows what Lundkvist is for a prospect at the moment.

There's no telling who Dallas could have or might have picked next summer. So, they have a lot more certainty at the moment and the sky is surely the limit for Lundkvist - and many other youngsters in his shoes.

Whether Dallas paid too stiff a price won't be known for many years now and largely depends on Lundkvist's development and the NYR scouting staff.
 
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My recollection is that people here were pretty confident at the time that Tavares would re-sign. But I guess I misread that because it seems like most people think he should have been traded at the deadline. My bad.

Don't forget that Malkin was working on developing a billion dollar arena project at the time. I realize he doesn't have the business acumen of all of us, but maybe he thought trading away the face of the franchise for picks would have been not so good, and ultimately more risky than taking the process all the way to the end (the couch by the pool the morning of UFA day) in an effort to re-sign the guy. And it was a bit of bad luck that Tavares happened to be a UFA during that crazy "shopping week" thing where he interviewed teams.

Ultimately, it all turned out for the best for us. And I suspect CGY may do better in the playoffs having "traded" Gaudreau for Kadri.
Not all of us. I was on trade him in the summer if he hadn't extended and have a LOT of posts of Hockey trades we could have tried.

I was reamed by a lot of people here, but it was clear to me he was mouthing the normal platitudes but was intent on testing the market (and likely had been hoping TML would be competitive on an offer). As far as Malkin promising to build a winner? Irrelevant. He was leaving to Toronto if he could, and a few other locations if TML wasn't competitive. Anyone who denies that looking back is delusional, he CLEARLY showed that intent at his TML signing press conference.

Why would Tavares possibly believe Malkin about building a winner? That's an ASSUMPTION, not a pledge. This was about him wanting to fulfill a childhood dream if he could. He asked not to be traded at the deadline. HE PLAYED MALKIN; let's not sugarcoat it any other way.

As Perif noted, imagine the two conference final runs if we also had a Parayko, a Jaden Schwartz, etc., as the extra piece or two. It would take me a long time to find them, but I probably came up with 4 or 5 hockey trades that were reasonable if we had traded him that summer.
 
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When he did walk, the feeling was then that he was naturally the bad guy for approaching and dealing with the situation in the manner he did. He duped all of Islanderville.
The thing that really bothered me about Tavares is that the situation really clarified what *he* thought of himself. That whole thing with presentations from teams, and then announcing it on twitter with a photo made it feel like he was trying for this Lebron-style free agency spectacle. Lebron was endlessly criticized for it... and he's Lebron. John Tavares is no Lebron.

Let's face it, the Islanders were a tire fire, and nobody expected the quick turnaround. And that quick turnaround, frankly, revealed a lot about John Tavares's ability to be a leader. Like, not good.

Malkin might have screwed up the negotiation, but at least he's a guy who earned the right to be confident about his ability to negotiate.
 
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