Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[MJF]

So Lou is putting his faith in a few first round picks still under 25 elevating to another level under a new coach.

Isn’t that what everyone here wanted?

 

[PK Cronin]

Lovely.

Beauvillier should be a 25 goal scorer with his speed, but after 6 years he’s become a lesser Michael Grabner. Beau air mails far too many shots to be considered a finisher.

I like the guy. I root for him to succeed. But he’s another guy who has reached shit or get off the pot territory.

At some point he'll lose the "potential" tag too, which lessens value if he is to be traded. I like Beauvillier and think the team should keep him if possible, but the Jekyll and Hyde thing needs to stop.

 

[Glorydays22]

Lovely.

Beauvillier should be a 25 goal scorer with his speed, but after 6 years he’s become a lesser Michael Grabner. Beau air mails far too many shots to be considered a finisher.

I like the guy. I root for him to succeed. But he’s another guy who has reached shit or get off the pot territory. I wouldn’t lose any sleep over trading him in one of Lou’s “hockey trades.” Sometimes a change of scenery is good for both parties.

Do you not get it? Beau will never be a 25 goal scorer if he's on a line of Nelson and Lee who are the primary scorers! Beau has altered his game playing on the 2nd line. When he played on the Brazal line he was more of a shooter because of Brazal being a natural playmaker.

 

[MJF]

Do you not get it? Beau will never be a 25 goal scorer if he's on a line of Nelson and Lee who are the primary scorers! Beau has altered his game playing on the 2nd line. When he played on the Brazal line he was more of a shooter because of Brazal being a natural playmaker.

Do you not get it that won’t be a 25 goal scorer on any line with his inaccurate shot?

 

[PK Cronin]

My thoughts are if you are ok and satisfied with him putting up say 15-18 goals and around 40-45 pts then ya keep him there. I don't think he's score 20, not on Nelson's line where he's the main scorer who'll probably net you 30+ and if Lee's on that line too, you would think he'd get 30 too. I think Nelson loves having Beau on his wing.

My only question is since most isles fans think he's unperforming. What numbers can he put up being on one of Brazal's wings?

But either way, to me Beau is a keeper.

I think 60+ points is the expectation for anyone in that spot.

 

[Mike C]

Absolutely, so if it really was just recovering and getting comfortable again, that's a good thing. As fans I think we're way too quick to jump to conclusions about injuries. If someone isn't playing well but they aren't known to be injured, we assume they're hiding an injury. If someone isn't playing well and they're coming off an injury, must be because they're still recovering. I think that sometimes it's just players ebbing and flowing more than there's any real reason to it and sometimes a player ebbs and just keeps on ebbing.

I am pleased at what I saw from Pageau and Palmieri in 2nd half. If we get that from the start I think those guys will be fine. I liked the effort and physical play from Wally even if some of his other game needs work

I wish it would be more forthcoming in hockey as it it in baseball about the specificity of injuries and a more consistent time frame of recovery

A "lower body" injury can be anything from an ingrown toenail to a hernia to a broken leg.

 

[Glorydays22]

I think 60+ points is the expectation for anyone in that spot.

I don't think the line of Lee-Nelson and Beau will all put up 60pts each. Nelson definitely, my guess if Beau has a good year on this line his points would be in the 50's. Mainly because he won't put up many goals since Nelson and Lee will score the majority of them. Beau will become more of a playmaker, going into the corners. Dare I say like a young Bailey when he played with Lee and Nelson

Do you not get it that won’t be a 25 goal scorer on any line with his inaccurate shot?

Put him on the line for a full year with Brazal....lets see who he proves wrong.
Your comment doesn't make sense. Everyone thinks he should score 20 goals on the 2nd line. You can't see him scoring 25 on Brazal's line for a full year? Really?

 

[PK Cronin]

I am pleased at what I saw from Pageau and Palmieri in 2nd half. If we get that from the start I think those guys will be fine. I liked the effort and physical play from Wally even if some of his other game needs work

I wish it would be more forthcoming in hockey as it it in baseball about the specificity of injuries and a more consistent time frame of recovery

A "lower body" injury can be anything from an ingrown toenail to a hernia to a broken leg.

I completely agree with Pageau and Palmieri, and I think Palmieri was really just snake bitten in the first half. There was a time when people were legitimately questioning if Palmieri would hit 10 goals on the year, he finished with 15 so I think he'll hit 20 again next season.

 

[Mike C]

My thoughts are if you are ok and satisfied with him putting up say 15-18 goals and around 40-45 pts then ya keep him there. I don't think he's score 20, not on Nelson's line where he's the main scorer who'll probably net you 30+ and if Lee's on that line too, you would think he'd get 30 too. I think Nelson loves having Beau on his wing.

My only question is since most isles fans think he's unperforming. What numbers can he put up being on one of Brazal's wings?

But either way, to me Beau is a keeper.

Keeping that line in tact I feel is best for the team. Especially with this collection of players, individual stats must be sacrificed for the whole of the equation. Beau was in a season long malaise until he united with Nelson and Lee.

I'm less concerned with him, Barzal or anyone really, putting up big numbers as opposed to playing a complete team game within whatever system is in place and allowing that to translate to the only number that really matters.....points in the standings

 

[PK Cronin]

I don't think the line of Lee-Nelson and Beau will all put up 60pts each. Nelson definitely, my guess if Beau has a good year on this line his points would be in the 50's. Mainly because he won't put up many goals since Nelson and Lee will score the majority of them. Beau will become more of a playmaker, going into the corners. Dare I say like a young Bailey when he played with Lee and Nelson

I think Beauvillier lives and dies in the transition game. If he's getting two on one's, he's very effective. If he has to grind in the corners, he doesn't hold up well over the course of the season. Historically I don't like Beauvillier with Barzal because he defers to Barzal too much and becomes passive. Maybe that's changed since he's gotten older but I don't know.

 

[Mike C]

I completely agree with Pageau and Palmieri, and I think Palmieri was really just snake bitten in the first half. There was a time when people were legitimately questioning if Palmieri would hit 10 goals on the year, he finished with 15 so I think he'll hit 20 again next season.

Freaking SEVEN disallowed. I think I had him as first goal or dark horse in most of them

He and Parise both hit so many posts and crossbars and were victims of the "save of the game" by the opposition goalie more than I want to remember

 

[Glorydays22]

I think Beauvillier lives and dies in the transition game. If he's getting two on one's, he's very effective. If he has to grind in the corners, he doesn't hold up well over the course of the season. Historically I don't like Beauvillier with Barzal because he defers to Barzal too much and becomes passive. Maybe that's changed since he's gotten older but I don't know.

I agree with what you are saying. I also think it takes a certain type of player to play with Brazal unfortunately because he wants the puck on stick most of the time.

If you look at Beau's stats, previous years he will put up 20 goals. But I just wonder what is his actual ceiling.

 

[MJF]

I don't think the line of Lee-Nelson and Beau will all put up 60pts each. Nelson definitely, my guess if Beau has a good year on this line his points would be in the 50's. Mainly because he won't put up many goals since Nelson and Lee will score the majority of them. Beau will become more of a playmaker, going into the corners. Dare I say like a young Bailey when he played with Lee and Nelson



Put him on the line for a full year with Brazal....lets see who he proves wrong.
Your comment doesn't make sense. Everyone thinks he should score 20 goals on the 2nd line. You can't see him scoring 25 on Brazal's line for a full year? Really?

If Beauvillier consistently hits glass more than he hits the net those expectations everyone has for him scoring 20 goals will keep everyone frustrated with him.

 

[PK Cronin]

It's just the same old story with this roster. There are so many combinations you can try because none of them are what you're looking for on the top line.

Beauvillier Barzal Palmieri
Lee Nelson Bailey
Parise Pageau Wahlstrom
---
Lee Barzal Palmieri
Beauvillier Nelson Bailey
Parise Pageau Wahlstrom
---
Parise Barzal Wahlstrom
Lee Nelson Palmieri
Beauvillier Pageau Bailey
---
etcetera, etcetera...

 

[Mike C]

If Beauvillier consistently hits glass more than he hits the net those expectations everyone has for him scoring 20 goals will keep everyone frustrated with him.

I never played anything more than dek hockey but it seems good things happen when you puck the puck towards the net

 

[MJF]

I never played anything more than dek hockey but it seems good things happen when you puck the puck towards the net

Yeah but you have to make the goaltender handle your shot, not watch it whiz last him.

 

[Mike C]

It's just the same old story with this roster. There are so many combinations you can try because none of them are what you're looking for on the top line.

Beauvillier Barzal Palmieri
Lee Nelson Bailey
Parise Pageau Wahlstrom
---
Lee Barzal Palmieri
Beauvillier Nelson Bailey
Parise Pageau Wahlstrom
---
Parise Barzal Wahlstrom
Lee Nelson Palmieri
Beauvillier Pageau Bailey
---
etcetera, etcetera...

same sh*it more of it as an old buddy used to say.

Enough to say ENOUGH ALREADY! and send me for my Saturday stint at the Italian Cafe for some treats and old school gossip

FLAVIO, I'm coming baby, Americanos and Sorbetto all arond!!

 

[Glorydays22]

If Beauvillier consistently hits glass more than he hits the net those expectations everyone has for him scoring 20 goals will keep everyone frustrated with him.

Not sure why you say it so confidently.

In 18-19 he had 18 goals in 81 games
In 19-20 he had 18 goals in 68 games (would have easily had over 20 goals in a full year)
In 20-21 he had 15 goals in 47 games (obviously would have been way over 20 goals in a full year)

Last year like most of the isles, he had a bad season.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Ok, say we get the following this upcoming season...

Lee (31-23-54) - Nelson (39-28-67) - Beauvillier (16-27-43)
Bailey (10-31-41) - Pageau (21-25-46) - Palmieri (27-20-47)
Martin (5-3-8) - Cizikas (9-9-18) - Clutterbuck (6-9-15)

What does the group of Barzal, Bellows, Parise, and Wahlstrom have to produce in order for this team to wrap up a solid playoff spot and then make its way to the conference finals again???

 

[Mike C]

Yeah but you have to make the goaltender handle your shot, not watch it whiz last him.

I'm with you. At worst you get a faceoff in the O zone.

 

[Glorydays22]

Ok, say we get the following this upcoming season...

Lee (31-23-54) - Nelson (39-28-67) - Beauvillier (16-27-43)
Bailey (10-31-41) - Pageau (21-25-46) - Palmieri (27-20-47)
Martin (5-3-8) - Cizikas (9-9-18) - Clutterbuck (6-9-15)

What does the group of Barzal, Bellows, Parise, and Wahlstrom have to produce in order for this team to wrap up a solid playoff spot and then make its way to the conference finals again???

I don't think Pageau nets you 21 goals. I cringe with the idea Parise being on Brazal's line for the entire year. I hate a Parise-Brazal-Wally line.

 

[PK Cronin]

Ok, say we get the following this upcoming season...

Lee (31-23-54) - Nelson (39-28-67) - Beauvillier (16-27-43)
Bailey (10-31-41) - Pageau (21-25-46) - Palmieri (27-20-47)
Martin (5-3-8) - Cizikas (9-9-18) - Clutterbuck (6-9-15)

What does the group of Barzal, Bellows, Parise, and Wahlstrom have to produce in order for this team to wrap up a solid playoff spot and then make its way to the conference finals again???

Barzal needs to hit 70+ points and should be closer to 80.
Bellows somehow played 45 games last year and had 19 points, so I think a repeat season from him would be fine since I don't want him playing much.
If Parise can get 35 points again that's enough for him.
Wahlstrom is the big one and he needs a 40 point season, 20 goals, 20 assists.

 

[MJF]

Not sure why you say it so confidently.

In 18-19 he had 18 goals in 81 games
In 19-20 he had 18 goals in 68 games (would have easily had over 20 goals in a full year)
In 20-21 he had 15 goals in 47 games (obviously would have been way over 20 goals in a full year)

Last year like most of the isles, he had a bad season.

I say it so confidently because it’s true. Beauvillier is a career 11.9% shooter. That’s not so great. Last year he shot an awful 7.8%. If you want to compare that to some of our better scorers, Anders Lee and Brock Nelson, routinely on or around 30 goals a year, are career 14% shooters. The get more shots on goal and miss less. And if you want to throw Barzy into the mix, he’s an 11.2% shooter for his career-another career that is not meeting expectations either.

The numbers you have in your post are a clear example of a “would have, should have, could have” player. But he didn’t.

 

[isles55]

Do you not get it? Beau will never be a 25 goal scorer if he's on a line of Nelson and Lee who are the primary scorers! Beau has altered his game playing on the 2nd line. When he played on the Brazal line he was more of a shooter because of Brazal being a natural playmaker.

Beauvillier would’ve scored 24 goals this season if he shot as his career average shooting percentage. This discussion about him not being a finisher was true for last year and only last year.

Has Beauvillier forgotten to score goals, or was it just an unlucky year similar to what many players have occasionally?

 

[Glorydays22]

I say it so confidently because it’s true. Beauvillier is a career 11.9% shooter. That’s not so great. Last year he shot an awful 7.8%. If you want to compare that to some of our better scorers, Anders Lee and Brock Nelson, routinely on or around 30 goals a year, are career 14% shooters. The get more shots on goal and miss less. And if you want to throw Barzy into the mix, he’s an 11.2% shooter for his career-another career that is not meeting expectations either.

The numbers you have in your post are a clear example of a “would have, should have, could have” player. But he didn’t.

You are misleading everyone with that stat. Look at his career stats again. His first season (rookie played 66 games only what 19 yr old shot 8.9%. Last year as you mention only shot 7.8% but like I said, besides Nelson everyone had a horrible year last season. Look at the other 4 years for Beau in between 15.9%, 11.5%, 14.6%, 13.8%

Do you think Nelson is shooting 21.7% next year? I don't think so. Take out last year and his career shot pct is 13.2%

Nelson - averages 160 shots per year - Career 14.2% (with that career shooting % last year)
Lee - averages 177 shots per year. I didn't count his first 2 years ( in played 2 game and 22 games respectfully) 14.3% (90% are tip in or rebounds...hardly missing the net from the circle or somewhere).
Palmieri - average 159 shots per year. 12.2% career (didn't get his 1st 2 years - only played 10 and 18 games respectfully.

Beau - averages 130 shoots per year.

Again, I think you are underselling Beau. For whatever reason Trotz always blamed him and Brazal, never Lee, Bailey, Nelson, Pagaeu or any of the vets if they weren't playing well. Maybe with Trotz not always on him, maybe he can relax more and just use his talent and play.