Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[TheWhiteWhale30]

ok, Raty aside, what about signing Kadri and trading Barzal for a haul and making this team better now? Barzal is great but not much better than Kadri and it seems with the right move, getting at least 2 for 1 here which we desperately need.

Unless Barzal brings back a young 1C then no. Seems lateral anyway. Barzal is very good. The kid needs some damn help on his wing. He going to get traded to a team with real elite wingers and break 100 points. How about we just fix his wingman issue. One this organization has had since JT was drafted. Vanek was the only elite wing this team had and he was already a ghost of what he was and Isles only had him for 1/2 season. Lou was asleep early in the summer and missed on all the wingers.

Let the year ride. Stay far away from Kadri and fire Lou next summer, see if the new GM can get this team the winger it needs. Räty and Holmstrom will be ready to take over for Pageau and Parise making this team much younger. Then you get to work in the off-season. Hopefully Wally also takes a huge leap this year or next year. Team can remain competitive for a long time. But signing Kadri and trading Barzal is a recipe for disaster

 

[benedictTavares]

Everyone in this thread is actually stuck in the same time loop. The summer will never end. It’s just a loop of us contemplating whether or not Lou is still alive. Endless posts/pages of the same content.

 

[The Real JT]

Groh went 9-7 in his only year as Jets coach, that probably puts him #3 on the Jets all time won loss percentages

Groh had a decent year and I may also be one of the few Jets fans that liked Herm (at least in the beginning) and Rex.

Tbh the Jets real problem has always been their GM.

 

[JKP]

ok, Raty aside, what about signing Kadri and trading Barzal for a haul and making this team better now? Barzal is great but not much better than Kadri and it seems with the right move, getting at least 2 for 1 here which we desperately need.

I don’t know what you get for Barzal that makes you better, certainly not picks and prospects.

 

[leeroggy]

I don’t know what you get for Barzal that makes you better, certainly not picks and prospects.

No one is talking about picks and prospects. It has to be a hockey trade. The poster who pointed out the Lafontaine trade is right on.

Heck, he and Barzal are very similar in style.

To give you an idea of how the league looked at this, I proposed to Detroit Barzal for Raymond and Edvinsson and they laughed at it.

Lafontaine went with Randy Wood, Randy Hillier and a draft pick for Turgeon, Hogue, Krupp and McIlwain.

Lafontaine was 26 at the time and was coming off four incredible years of more than a PPG - 187G/183A in 303 games!

And EVERY SINGLE anti-trade person here would have called Bill Torrey an over-the-hill idiot for doing the trade. The Isles missed the playoffs in 91-92, finishing one game below .500. But the next year we were one cheap shot away from potentially winning the Cup.

To quote the late, great Herb Brooks . . . it's the name on the FRONT of the uniform that counts. It's about the PORTFOLIO of players, not the ones we like the best.

Very simple question . . . are we better with Kadri and Kyle Connor, or Barzal and Bailey? Connor had 47G/46A last year and won the Lady Byng with only 4 PIMs, He has 145 goals in his last 288 games. He has 4 years left at $7,142,000. How do you NOT make that trade if Winnipeg is willing?

 

[seafoam]

No one is talking about picks and prospects. It has to be a hockey trade. The poster who pointed out the Lafontaine trade is right on.

Heck, he and Barzal are very similar in style.

To give you an idea of how the league looked at this, I proposed to Detroit Barzal for Raymond and Edvinsson and they laughed at it.

Lafontaine went with Randy Wood, Randy Hillier and a draft pick for Turgeon, Hogue, Krupp and McIlwain.

Lafontaine was 26 at the time and was coming off four incredible years of more than a PPG - 187G/183A in 303 games!

And EVERY SINGLE anti-trade person here would have called Bill Torrey an over-the-hill idiot for doing the trade. The Isles missed the playoffs in 91-92, finishing one game below .500. But the next year we were one cheap shot away from potentially winning the Cup.

To quote the late, great Herb Brooks . . . it's the name on the FRONT of the uniform that counts. It's about the PORTFOLIO of players, not the ones we like the best.

Very simple question . . . are we better with Kadri and Kyle Connor, or Barzal and Bailey? Connor had 47G/46A last year and won the Lady Byng with only 4 PIMs, He has 145 goals in his last 288 games. He has 4 years left at $7,142,000. How do you NOT make that trade if Winnipeg is willing?

I don’t want to trade Barzal.

With that said, I’m of the opinion that Edvinsson has the potential to be just as good as Dobson if not better. Raymond would be a winger NYI has been looking for for decades.

If for some reason Barzal told NYI he wasn’t going to sign long term, Edvinsson or Raymond + wouldn’t be a bad return.

I don’t think Barzal would return both, but Kadri + Edvinsson/Raymond -> in, Barzal -> out wouldn’t be the worst case scenario for a player that wouldn’t re-sign.

The priority should be to re-sign Barzal, but it takes two to tango.

 

[Sheva7]

No one is talking about picks and prospects. It has to be a hockey trade. The poster who pointed out the Lafontaine trade is right on.

Heck, he and Barzal are very similar in style.

To give you an idea of how the league looked at this, I proposed to Detroit Barzal for Raymond and Edvinsson and they laughed at it.

Lafontaine went with Randy Wood, Randy Hillier and a draft pick for Turgeon, Hogue, Krupp and McIlwain.

Lafontaine was 26 at the time and was coming off four incredible years of more than a PPG - 187G/183A in 303 games!

And EVERY SINGLE anti-trade person here would have called Bill Torrey an over-the-hill idiot for doing the trade. The Isles missed the playoffs in 91-92, finishing one game below .500. But the next year we were one cheap shot away from potentially winning the Cup.

To quote the late, great Herb Brooks . . . it's the name on the FRONT of the uniform that counts. It's about the PORTFOLIO of players, not the ones we like the best.

Very simple question . . . are we better with Kadri and Kyle Connor, or Barzal and Bailey? Connor had 47G/46A last year and won the Lady Byng with only 4 PIMs, He has 145 goals in his last 288 games. He has 4 years left at $7,142,000. How do you NOT make that trade if Winnipeg is willing?

This is the thing though...why would the other team be willing to do that? Even your Detroit example is too one sided in Isles favor.

Raymond is already a stud who's cost controlled for a while and Edvinsson is a gem of a prospect. Both guys are younger with literally enormous potential. I can even see Yzerman turning down a Raymond for Barzal swap, straight up.

That's not to say Barzal is chopped liver or that he should even be traded at all - I do not think he should. What I mean to say is, like those who thought flipping Bailey would be easy, thinking that Barzal will net the Isles a return like the ones being proposed is kinda just wishful thinking.

 

[MJF]

I don’t want to trade Barzal.

With that said, I’m of the opinion that Edvinsson has the potential to be just as good as Dobson if not better. Raymond would be a winger NYI has been looking for for decades.

If for some reason Barzal told NYI he wasn’t going to sign long term, Edvinsson or Raymond + wouldn’t be a bad return.

I don’t think Barzal would return both, but Kadri + Edvinsson/Raymond -> in, Barzal -> out wouldn’t be the worst case scenario for a player that wouldn’t re-sign.

The priority should be to re-sign Barzal, but it takes two to tango.

Why? He's not a magician. He's not a prolific scorer. He's difficult to play with because he complicates his game so much. He's simply a great skater.

Some of the best skaters in the game got traded. LaFontaine and Denis Savard, off the top of my head. Leerogy's trade proposal makes us a better team. That's what I'm looking for.

 

[SI]

Why? He's not a magician. He's not a prolific scorer. He's difficult to play with because he complicates his game so much. He's simply a great skater.

Some of the best skaters in the game got traded. LaFontaine and Denis Savard, off the top of my head. Leerogy's trade proposal makes us a better team. That's what I'm looking for.

From a purely hypothetical lens - sure value looks good. But the Jets are not making that trade.

The Jets have had difficulty resigning players - right now it’s Dubois, who is signalling he is not signing long term. They also have been unhappy with Schef, so Connor is the last player they would move, especially since Barzal would not resign with Winnipeg.

 

[Delocatedfan]

No to OEL. He did not look great last year with Vancouver so absolutely no. Also if Barzal is ever to be traded, the only kid I will consider for trade for him is Mason McTavish of the Duck who I think will be an impact player in NHL. Anaheim had to add, though maybe another top prospect or top pick.

Uh it was generally considered a solid / good year from OEL even by our media. I watched 90% of the games and thought he was quite good (also helped Myers look solid).

Neither team has anything the other wants

 

[LeapOnOver]

Why? He's not a magician. He's not a prolific scorer. He's difficult to play with because he complicates his game so much. He's simply a great skater.

Some of the best skaters in the game got traded. LaFontaine and Denis Savard, off the top of my head. Leerogy's trade proposal makes us a better team. That's what I'm looking for.

No mention of stick handling to go with the skating?

 

[MJF]

No mention of stick handling to go with the skating?

No.

 

[WangMustGo]

Why? He's not a magician. He's not a prolific scorer. He's difficult to play with because he complicates his game so much. He's simply a great skater.

Some of the best skaters in the game got traded. LaFontaine and Denis Savard, off the top of my head. Leerogy's trade proposal makes us a better team. That's what I'm looking for.

Because trading our most talented player that is just entering his prime makrs no sense.

The islanders are not trading Barzal.

 

[MJF]

Because trading our most talented player that is just entering his prime makrs no sense.

The islanders are not trading Barzal.

After 6 years, our most talented player still doesn't check enough boxes to make him an untouchable.

 

[Mike C]

Because trading our most talented player that is just entering his prime makrs no sense.

The islanders are not trading Barzal.

hi wang,

i'm not saying i advocate this at all, but if it ever gets decided that the isles need to tear it down and rebuild, would you think trading barzal for a haul of young assets/picks would be a way to start the process because he can assuredly bring the best return of any of our guys?

i try and see things from all angles, so just curious what your philosophy is on this

for me, i think adding kadri and swinging for the fences this season is my preference as well as hopefully adding another D NOT named Andy or Zdeno

 

[SI]

hi wang,

i'm not saying i advocate this at all, but if it ever gets decided that the isles need to tear it down and rebuild, would you think trading barzal for a haul of young assets/picks would be a way to start the process because he can assuredly bring the best return of any of our guys?

i try and see things from all angles, so just curious what your philosophy is on this

for me, i think adding kadri and swinging for the fences this season is my preference as well as hopefully adding another D NOT named Andy or Zdeno

If the team falls apart and is clearly mediocre and not making the playoffs, THEN the plan should be to shop Nelson, Mayfield, and Varlamov - possibly even Pageau (if you have signed Kadri) at the deadline for picks and prospects. Nelson and Mayfield will land the team 1sts for sure.

You keep Pelech, Pulock, Dobson, Romanov, Sorokin, and Barzal for the rebuild.

But you start the season going for it.

 

[Mike C]

If the team falls apart and is clearly mediocre and not making the playoffs, THEN the plan should be to shop Nelson, Mayfield, and Varlamov - possibly even Pageau (if you have signed Kadri) at the deadline for picks and prospects. Nelson and Mayfield will land the team 1sts for sure.

You keep Pelech, Pulock, Dobson, Romanov, Sorokin, and Barzal for the rebuild.

But you start the season going for it.

i am definitely of the mindset to always go for it if you think you have a chance. i think with all the extenuating circumstances surrounding last season, there is cause for optimism

i'll definitely be buying center ice package and will be parked in front of tv with my son (often late night dvr because of his karate schedule) watching every contest as we always do (him in his #13 hoodie!!) rooting like the FANatics we are!

 

[Throttle]

No mention of stick handling to go with the skating?

Into the corner? Amazing skill.

If the team falls apart and is clearly mediocre and not making the playoffs, THEN the plan should be to shop Nelson, Mayfield, and Varlamov - possibly even Pageau (if you have signed Kadri) at the deadline for picks and prospects. Nelson and Mayfield will land the team 1sts for sure.

You keep Pelech, Pulock, Dobson, Romanov, Sorokin, and Barzal for the rebuild.

But you start the season going for it.

If the Isles fall apart, then Barzal should be traded. That would be two seasons in a row that he didn’t elevate his game to help the team.

 

[Throttle]

Why? He's not a magician. He's not a prolific scorer. He's difficult to play with because he complicates his game so much. He's simply a great skater.

Some of the best skaters in the game got traded. LaFontaine and Denis Savard, off the top of my head. Leerogy's trade proposal makes us a better team. That's what I'm looking for.

Isles fans are so desperate for a ‘star’ they overlook this players own faults and think it’s the coach, the GM, and the other players. The only players not at fault so far for Barzal are the Isles goalies.

 

[YearlyLottery]

I would be open to trading Barzal is the deal actually made sense. But nobody should surprised when he puts up over 100 points in a more open offense.

 

[Mike C]

what's up fellow carolinian!!


i think 100 pts may be ambitious unless lambert totally gets away from a defensive structure which i hope is not the case based on the age and makeup of the team. i do think barzal, in a contract year will do better, i'm hoping after last season, he has an internal fire wanting to put last season in the rearview, and play to his potential if not for any other reason than out of disappointment and pride from a team and personal standpoint.

 

[WangMustGo]

hi wang,

i'm not saying i advocate this at all, but if it ever gets decided that the isles need to tear it down and rebuild, would you think trading barzal for a haul of young assets/picks would be a way to start the process because he can assuredly bring the best return of any of our guys?

i try and see things from all angles, so just curious what your philosophy is on this

for me, i think adding kadri and swinging for the fences this season is my preference as well as hopefully adding another D NOT named Andy or Zdeno

Personally Id wait to see how this tean plays this season. If we are outside of the playoffs come trade deadline I would look to retool, moving all UFAs and hold onto Barzal, Dobson, Sorokin, Pelech,Pulock, Romanov.

If Barzal hypothetically wanted too much money or wanted out than I would move him.

 

[MJF]

Isles fans are so desperate for a ‘star’ they overlook this players own faults and think it’s the coach, the GM, and the other players. The only players not at fault so far for Barzal are the Isles goalies.

I agree with the bolded. In my opinion, I think a superstar forward, an elite, is necessary for long term success in the playoffs. A lunchpail gang might win a championship once but it’s too tough to repeat.

Actually I agree with the rest of your statement regarding Barzal as well. Those same folks here were scared shitless to criticize John Tavares’s short comings because “we haven’t had a star here since Ziggy Palffy “

 

[Throttle]

Personally Id wait to see how this tean plays this season. If we are outside of the playoffs come trade deadline I would look to retool, moving all UFAs and hold onto Barzal, Dobson, Sorokin, Pelech,Pulock, Romanov.

If Barzal hypothetically wanted too much money or wanted out than I would move him.

Again, if the Isles are out of it, then Barzal is part of the problem. He’s supposed to be most talented and best player according to the fanboys. If he can’t elevate his game and the team, then that’s an issue.

 

[Mike C]

Into the corner? Amazing skill.


If the Isles fall apart, then Barzal should be traded. That would be two seasons in a row that he didn’t elevate his game to help the team.

i'm going into this season with a "clean slate" mentality. i'm hoping with lambert, and as someone mentioned yesterday, maclean, both having nhl experience on the ice and behind the bench, that Matt comes back with a fresh approach and a solid mentality to help the team succeed.

both lambert and maclean have championships as players (lambert in minors) and coaches. IF kadri comes onboard, his experience last year as a cup winner will be invaluable.


i'm going to give matt the benefit of the doubt starting off and hope that last season was the aberration and the whole team gets back to that winning attitude and play

obviously time will tell but let's go matt and let's go isles!!