Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Mike C]

Can we all agree on a standard shorthand for term and salary? Is it years first then salary, or salary first then years? Pick one. I don’t care which. But let’s all agree to use the same notation.

7x4. What’s that?

28

 

[MJF]

Can we all agree on a standard shorthand for term and salary? Is it years first then salary, or salary first then years? Pick one. I don’t care which. But let’s all agree to use the same notation.

7x4. What’s that?

If only people would use a dollar sign….

 

[Big L]

28

This guy gets it

 

[Mike C]

If only people would use a dollar sign….

There you go talking that common sense stuff again!

 

[doublechili]

My guess is that Lou would offer maybe 5 x $7M, and the annual amount would drop for each year of additional term (maybe 6x $6.5M, and is he's willing to go longer then perhaps 7x $6M). Just making this up, but basing it on the NYI salary structure right now.

When you can't score at a rate to keep up with playoff teams, and refuse to trade your 5 million dollar backup goalie, you deserve whatever fate your team is facing. The offseason is not over. However, IMO, JG was a must and trading Varlamov and Bailey should have happened to open up some space.

The team still needs scoring and the options are dwindling. Kadri is a really interesting player. Kadri was a legit elite player last year.

For it to be a good contract, according to Dom with the Athletic, these would be the numbers:

~6.5 million x 7 years
~7.0 million x 6 years
~7.5 million x 5 years
~8.0 million x 4 years
~8.5 million x 3 years

Hard guy to project because he seems to be getting better with age. The age curve is weird with him. I guess we'll see. I'm wary of signing Kadri. But at 6.5x7, I think I'd be pretty happy. Anything more would be a bad idea.

If he ages like a Marchand, it may be a good bet at the numbers above.

Uh oh, I'm almost agreeing with Dom Buyavowel from The Athletic. My guesses were $500k lower each year, but maybe Lou will go lower than Dom is guessing?

BTW, if the cap goes up over the years, a Kadri contract may be movable later if the cap hit is higher than the actual amount owed (ie., pay him more early in the contract so he's more attractive to a cap floor team later).

 

[Throttle]

Sounds like the same talking points to me with a lot of conjucture. You open the second paragraph with Isles "have to overpay" for UFA players and yet your first paragraph contradicts it to say JG "needed to want to be here" and Lou clearing the space and making the highest offer wouldn't have mattered. Makes no sense really.

Truth is (I repeat) we have no idea whether the a million-million and a half more per wouldn't have kept him in the East and signed here. Reports are Philly certainly would have been an option had they had the cash. The only thing we know for sure is we didn't offer that "overpay" and I would argue that difference makers are the only time we should and not the Kadri's of the world.

We also know that (out of his own lips) that trading Varlamov was not an option and there were reports we weren't even shopping Bailey. This coupled with reports that "not being able to clear the space" was the central reason we didn't even engage.

And no one is indicating the Islanders are the go-to destination, but obviously it is more attractive now with new owners and a new stadium.

Regardless it is NOT an excuse to overpay for non difference makers, all you do is go around in circles that way. If you are convinced that you are never going to get a big time player (either because you refuse to overpay or because of the unattractiveness of your team's location/status) than Lou is clearly not the right GM for the job....because you should be building your roster ONLY through the draft and strike gold on your difference makers that way.....

Can't do that if you are trading away your first round picks for the likes of Pageau, Palmieri and Romanov- good players but not "difference makers"....

Ps - difference makers don’t sign with NYI as UFAs that’s pretty clear whether you over pay them or not.

Other players have signed with NYI as UFAs, most by overpaying in term or salary/cap.

Keep trying to find fault where there is very little to be found.

I don't believe this to be true. I think JG would've signed with the Isles if we offered anywhere near with CBJ offered. However, if you look at our cap space, it would've taken moving two players off the roster to make it happen. Lou didn't want to do that.

Say they signed JG to the same 9.5x7 contract. That would've left them 1.7 mil to sign Dobson, Romanov, and Bellows. Now say they trade Bailey. Now it's 6.7 to sign all 3. Just not feasible. Now if Lou moved Varlamov when he had the chance, and then Bailey, it'd be a different story.

I just don't think the Isles offered enough. It came down to the Devils and CBJ eventually in terms of money offered. He chose CBJ. I don't thin the Isles were ever in it.

You can believe what you want…except, to date the Isles have not signed a premium UFA (aka difference maker) and it’s not because they don’t have the cap space - that’s a fools errand.

There are more than enough examples of teams signing UFAs and later making trades to get cap compliant.

If the team wanted JG that bad and wanted to overpay him that bad, certainly they could have moved other players out to do so. Maybe that wasn’t digestible to make such a move but it can be done.

The chance of this team making the playoffs is on its top 5, if not 3 goaltending in the league. Time for the young schmucks on offense to earn their ice time and paycheck.

 

[JPIsles18]

Ps - difference makers don’t sign with NYI as UFAs that’s pretty clear whether you over pay them or not.

Other players have signed with NYI as UFAs, most by overpaying in term or salary/cap.

Keep trying to find fault where there is very little to be found.


You can believe what you want…except, to date the Isles have not signed a premium UFA (aka difference maker) and it’s not because they don’t have the cap space - that’s a fools errand.

There are more than enough examples of teams signing UFAs and later making trades to get cap compliant.

If the team wanted JG that bad and wanted to overpay him that bad, certainly they could have moved other players out to do so. Maybe that wasn’t digestible to make such a move but it can be done.

The chance of this team making the playoffs is on its top 5, if not 3 goaltending in the league. Time for the young schmucks on offense to earn their ice time and paycheck.

I understand this take. However, the only real example of this is Panarin. The Isles truly had cap space then, and allegedly offered more than the Rangers. He chose the Rangers.

I don't buy that the Isles are an unattractive destination for players anymore. In a cap world, most of these players are looking for top dollar on a contender. Isles have been contenders. What they don't have is real cap space. They have signed a ton of above average and below average players to above average deals. Lou has also fallen madly in love with this group. If you listen to JG interviews it really came down to Devils and CBJ based on the offers. He picked CBJ for one reason or another. If anything, it appears the Devils have more of that stigma than the Isles.

Free agency is usually where teams dip into right before a franchise goes off the rails. Very rarely do you get a Chara (Boston Chara), Panarin, JG, etc available. True difference makers don't usually make the market. The guys that do are usually candidates for overpayment and crippling contracts.

Outside of Panarin and now JG, I have not been overly upset about the Isles striking out on UFAs. It's usually a Ladd type contract. Look at all "big" name UFAs signed the past few years. It's a really bad list.

 

[Skidrow11]

I understand this take. However, the only real example of this is Panarin. The Isles truly had cap space then, and allegedly offered more than the Rangers. He chose the Rangers.

I don't buy that the Isles are an unattractive destination for players anymore. In a cap world, most of these players are looking for top dollar on a contender. Isles have been contenders. What they don't have is real cap space. They have signed a ton of above average and below average players to above average deals. Lou has also fallen madly in love with this group. If you listen to JG interviews it really came down to Devils and CBJ based on the offers. He picked CBJ for one reason or another. If anything, it appears the Devils have more of that stigma than the Isles.

Free agency is usually where teams dip into right before a franchise goes off the rails. Very rarely do you get a Chara (Boston Chara), Panarin, JG, etc available. True difference makers don't usually make the market. The guys that do are usually candidates for overpayment and crippling contracts.

Outside of Panarin and now JG, I have not been overly upset about the Isles striking out on UFAs. It's usually a Ladd type contract. Look at all "big" name UFAs signed the past few years. It's a really bad list.

I think the #1 reason any offensive skilled player would chose another team, is the system they play. It's very possible that's why Paneren wanted the rangers instead. These forwards, and offensive defenseman, put immense pressure on themselves for their ego, to produce points. They don't want to sign with the islanders and try and win games 1 to nothing. It's not appealing to 1st line players. Imagine towes, Asa free agent in a year or 2, Lou is here and his coach is still doing this system. Toews is gona say to himself "I shot up into the top 30 defenseman in this league by being able to use my skillset....I'm not trying to lose my status by going backwards". If Barzal ever leaves, which I could care less either way, it will be because of the system. Not his wingers, or a better chance to win a cup.

 

[seafoam]

I think the #1 reason any offensive skilled player would chose another team, is the system they play. It's very possible that's why Paneren wanted the rangers instead. These forwards, and offensive defenseman, put immense pressure on themselves for their ego, to produce points. They don't want to sign with the islanders and try and win games 1 to nothing. It's not appealing to 1st line players. Imagine towes, Asa free agent in a year or 2, Lou is here and his coach is still doing this system. Toews is gona say to himself "I shot up into the top 30 defenseman in this league by being able to use my skillset....I'm not trying to lose my status by going backwards". If Barzal ever leaves, which I could care less either way, it will be because of the system. Not his wingers, or a better chance to win a cup.

If Trotz was the NYR coach at the time of Panarin being a free agent I don't think it would have swayed him to choose another destination. In fact it may have even made it more of a slam dunk that they land him.

After all Trotz had just come off a Cup with Ovechkin.

 

[JPIsles18]

I think the #1 reason any offensive skilled player would chose another team, is the system they play. It's very possible that's why Paneren wanted the rangers instead. These forwards, and offensive defenseman, put immense pressure on themselves for their ego, to produce points. They don't want to sign with the islanders and try and win games 1 to nothing. It's not appealing to 1st line players. Imagine towes, Asa free agent in a year or 2, Lou is here and his coach is still doing this system. Toews is gona say to himself "I shot up into the top 30 defenseman in this league by being able to use my skillset....I'm not trying to lose my status by going backwards". If Barzal ever leaves, which I could care less either way, it will be because of the system. Not his wingers, or a better chance to win a cup.

With a flat cap this matters less I think. The top UFAs will be squeezed. You saw this with JG. No way he signs with CBJ if true contenders were offering the same term and money.

Panarin was fairly local about playing in NYC and living in NYC. That was a lifestyle decision for him. Since Lou took over, the main UFAs he has lost out were Tavares and Panarin. The reason I list them and not JG, is because I don't think the Isles ever made a competitive offer for JG. They tried to overpay Tavares and Panarin. One wanted to go home. The other wanted to be in NYC. Both had more to do with the teams they signed with than the Isles.

 

[seafoam]

With a flat cap this matters less I think. The top UFAs will be squeezed. You saw this with JG. No way he signs with CBJ if true contenders were offering the same term and money.

Panarin was fairly local about playing in NYC and living in NYC. That was a lifestyle decision for him. Since Lou took over, the main UFAs he has lost out were Tavares and Panarin. The reason I list them and not JG, is because I don't think the Isles ever made a competitive offer for JG. They tried to overpay Tavares and Panarin. One wanted to go home. The other wanted to be in NYC. Both had more to do with the teams they signed with than the Isles.

Which leads me to saying no high end UFA is going to willingly sign with the Islanders unless they are consistent Cup contenders (I'm talking a legitimate ten year period) where they are in the conference and Cup finals on a yearly basis (which is difficult with the current league wide parity) and have cap space to boot.

NYI needs to focus on drafting and developing their own talent; full stop. I said this the day after JG went to Columbus. Long Island is simply not a destination, just like 80% of the league. They simply cannot pan their hopes on a top flight UFA,

 

[JPIsles18]

Which leads me to saying no high end UFA is going to willingly sign with the Islanders unless they are consistent Cup contenders (I'm talking a legitimate ten year period) where they are in the conference and Cup finals on a yearly basis (which is difficult with the current league wide parity) and have cap space to boot.

NYI needs to focus on drafting and developing their own talent; full stop. I said this the day after JG went to Columbus. Long Island is simply not a destination, just like 80% of the league. They simply cannot pan their hopes on a top flight UFA,

This should always be the plan. Look no further than the Lightning and Avalanche. Kucherov, Vasilevsky, Point, Stamkos, MacKinnon, Landeskog, Makar, Rantanen, etc. are the heartbeats of their respective teams. They are all drafted. None of them signed an elite UFA. In fact, they draft so well, they aren't even in position to do so because they struggle to keep their own guys.

Cost controlled superstars is how you win championships. Lou hasn't been very good at that yet. Isles don't have many assets to begin with. However, he keeps trading first rounders for middle of the lineup players (JGP, Palmieri, jury is out on Romanov), and then re-signs them to market value deals. It's hard to keep doing that year after year and have the money to get superstars.

We came as close as we could without a superstar. However, in 3 years, this hasn't been rectified. IMO, it could have been but the opportunity cost of death by a million paper cuts with signing a bunch of above average players has been to much to overcome. It's the reason we didn't get JG, a superstar who was signed for below market value.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Alright so let’s all agree years come first then salary.

Max id give kadri is 3x7. Isles don’t need another middling 6 forward, and are already set at center.

Eww... you probably like pineapple on pizza

 

[periferal]

Is the sky always falling for you, man? Seriously, just let it play out and it is what it is. Try a little optimism!!

The sky is actually rarely falling for me. It's usually falling for the Isles and I just point it out and/or anticipate it. Been tons of shitty moments over the past 20 years and so I'm not going to be optimistic if reality doesn't call for it.

That said if you want optimism in spades, go check out my myriad of posts the day snow was let go...Or the day Trotz was HIRED.

 

[Mike C]

The sky is actually rarely falling for me. It's usually falling for the Isles and I just point it out and/or anticipate it. Been tons of shitty moments over the past 20 years and so I'm not going to be optimistic if reality doesn't call for it.

That said if you want optimism in spades, go check out my myriad of posts the day snow was let go...Or the day Trotz was HIRED.

Old buddy of mine used to say

"If you want optimism, go to Hallmark and buy yourself a card"

 

[JKP]

The sky is actually rarely falling for me. It's usually falling for the Isles and I just point it out and/or anticipate it. Been tons of shitty moments over the past 20 years and so I'm not going to be optimistic if reality doesn't call for it.

That said if you want optimism in spades, go check out my myriad of posts the day snow was let go...Or the day Trotz was HIRED.

Then why are you a fan of the team? Sports are about hope. Generally curious if your so down on the team so often why you aren’t rooting for a team that gives you more joy and hope?

 

[boredmale]

Eww... you probably like pineapple on pizza

I love Hawaiian Pizza.

 

[Mike C]

I love Hawaiian Pizza.

Don't hate it.

These days I go for the simple cheese or a well made Sicilian pie with some ice cold Coca-Cola

Miss the pizza in Bensonhurst and Bay Ridge!

 

[boredmale]

Don't hate it.

These days I go for the simple cheese or a well made Sicilian pie with some ice cold Coca-Cola

Miss the pizza in Bensonhurst and Bay Ridge!

I have 3 types of pizzas i like, Peperoni. Meat Lovers and Hawaiian. In general I am a fussy eater and I don't care for any veggies on my pizza(well besides the sauce). I like Hawaiian because the pineapple gives it a nice sweetness taste which depending on the sauce can be a good mix, sometimes i even double up the pineapple

Where I live we don't have the greatest pizza just chain restaurants and the occasional small restaurant that might make their own.

 

[Mike C]

I have 3 types of pizzas i like, Peperoni. Meat Lovers and Hawaiian. In general I am a fussy eater and I don't care for any veggies on my pizza(well besides the sauce). I like Hawaiian because the pineapple gives it a nice sweetness taste which depending on the sauce can be a good mix, sometimes i even double up the pineapple

Where I live we don't have the greatest pizza just chain restaurants and the occasional small restaurant that might make their own.

I'm lucky man, I live near Charlotte NC, took much trial and error but found a guy from Pittsburgh who has a good moderately priced place and a guy from Jersey opened up a shop close to where I live that I go to every Tuesday for lunch

 

[GOLFWANG]

If Kadri is signed here....who do you think will most likely be gone? Tito or Bailey? or someone else?

 

[boredmale]

If Kadri is signed here....who do you think will most likely be gone? Tito or Bailey? or someone else?

If I had to guess Bailey would be the first one we try to dump, if it cost to much to get rid of him we probably would trade Beauvillier for less then value(see Oliver Bjorkstrand)

On a side note about Bailey, if possible we should eat 1M of his caphit, trade him to Team B, who then eats 50% of his salary, thus leaving him with a 2M caphit that Team C could give Team B something of value for

 

[IslandersFan17]

 

[YearlyLottery]

Who is this?

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

We've been hearing this for a week now.

I'll believe it when KADRI 43 jerseys are on sale.