Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[CupHolders]

Regarding Modified No Trade Clauses. Most Islander's have a 16 team no-trade clause. When and how often does the CBA allow players to submit their list?

 

[Osakahaus]

Did Nikita call and tell you this?

Friedman said he has heard Lindholm enjoyed his time in Vancouver after the big trade in late January. Though things didn't go perfectly right away, Lindholm elevated his game in the playoffs as Vancouver took the Edmonton Oilers to a seventh game in the second round.


Zadorov, meanwhile, presents a different scenario.


"I believe Zadorov has a number and it might actually be a little less than he can get on the open market to stay in Vancouver," Friedman said. "I don't think Vancouver is far away from it, but I don't think they've hit it.


"... I think Zadorov knows if he gets to the open market, he's going to be happy with what's out there, so it's going to be up to the Canucks to get to the number he wants."

NHL Rumour Roundup: Latest on Canucks' Lindholm, Zadorov, Hurricanes' Guentzel

With the start of NHL free agency less than one month away, we check in on the Vancouver Canucks pair of Elias Lindholm and Nikita Zadorov.

www.sportsnet.ca

Tough chance he wants LI, but I would like him if possible

 

[seafoam]

Regarding Modified No Trade Clauses. Most Islander's have a 16 team no-trade clause. When and how often does the CBA allow players to submit their list?

Right around July 1st when the league calendar turns over to the next season.

But a player can be approached by the GM whenever to waive their clause to a team that they have on their no-trade list, if they choose. But again, that is up to the GM to even pursue a deal that would require a player they signed to waive for somewhere they have a contractual right to not be traded to.

 

[FoxYou727]

That should tell you all you need to know about how unbalanced that deal is for the Islanders.

If Ehlers comes extended I'd say it is fair. Both him and Pelech have taken a step back since Trotz... Pelech concussion history is the reason they need to trade him

 

[FoxYou727]

On the current and past few Stanley Cup contenders? Top three pretty easily, and at 24 years of age has room to improve. Still leaves him solidly in first round value and talent.

Dealing first round picks? We went over that too with this pick specifically. You didn't want to use the pick for Fiala, then it was used on Romanov, and you flipped back to wanting it on Fiala. Unfortunately, Fiala wasn't a realistic option for the Isles as he wanted to go to LA.

That pick was subsequently traded for Kirby Dach. So that might offer another perspective on the value of that pick.

Can Lou be criticized for his body of work on the Islanders? Sure. Do the Isles need more skill up and down the lineup? Sure. Does trading a first for Romanov fit into those two point? Not according to his actual play. Islanders walked in with a first round pick, and walked out with a first round level player.

FWIW, I expect a similar thing to happen this draft. Which is why I keep seeing Shane Pinto as a possibility. So take my reply to you as an attempt to preemptively get you off the ledge.

As per your original post, trading Romanov+ for a better defender. I had a hard time finding a fit. But @seafoam, brought up Shea Theodore. That's someone I could get behind the Isles acquiring. However with the cap increasing, it likely puts him into the 9M+ territory. Which is the same reason ~5M for Romanov will not be out of the question soon.

I expect a deal for a U24 foward too

Pinto and Maccelli are my top 2 choices

 

[Osakahaus]

F the capitals for buying Capfriendly btw

 

[MarsTBOW]

Tough chance he wants LI, but I would like him if possible

Yeah, just thinking on who could replace Pelech....
Wish it could happen

 

[seabass45]

F the capitals for buying Capfriendly btw

Not mentioned but wonder if the Caps actually hired the guy who created it and as part of the contract he has to shut the site down, I believe that’s been done in the past when teams hire analytics guys.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

If Nelson were to be moved, it isn't to be done to bring in another proven goalscorer.

He's the only "available" guy on the team who will bring you a young NHL with strong upside, a blue-chipper, and a 1st rounder.

Highly thinkable that if, say, Barry Trotz would be keen on bringing him over, you'd see a deal like Luke Evangelista, Matthew Wood, and a '25 1st rounder (they have two).

You may even get one of their three 2nd rounders this year as well if there's a bidding war.

***
Then you go out and sign a UFA for next season to bring back a chunk of the offense you've just lost.

***
If Lou moves a "core" producer of any sort, it'll be the first time.

 

[FoxYou727]

If Nelson were to be moved, it isn't to be done to bring in another proven goalscorer.

He's the only "available" guy on the team who will bring you a young NHL with strong upside, a blue-chipper, and a 1st rounder.

Highly thinkable that if, say, Barry Trotz would be keen on bringing him over, you'd see a deal like Luke Evangelista, Matthew Wood, and a '25 1st rounder (they have two).

You may even get one of their three 2nd rounders this year as well if there's a bidding war.

***
Then you go out and sign a UFA for next season to bring back a chunk of the offense you've just lost.

***
If he moves a "core" producer of any sort, it'll be the first time.

moving Nelson means starting the retool/rebuild move Palms than the next year Lee and Pageau

 

[seabass45]

Next one up, hope they can shoulder the load:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1799910716583071757

 

[MarsTBOW]

To fix the PK Kevin Stenlund would be a welcome addition as a UFA also.

 

[periferal]

On the current and past few Stanley Cup contenders? Top three pretty easily, and at 24 years of age has room to improve. Still leaves him solidly in first round value and talent.

Dealing first round picks? We went over that too with this pick specifically. You didn't want to use the pick for Fiala, then it was used on Romanov, and you flipped back to wanting it on Fiala. Unfortunately, Fiala wasn't a realistic option for the Isles as he wanted to go to LA.

That pick was subsequently traded for Kirby Dach. So that might offer another perspective on the value of that pick.

Can Lou be criticized for his body of work on the Islanders? Sure. Do the Isles need more skill up and down the lineup? Sure. Does trading a first for Romanov fit into those two point? Not according to his actual play. Islanders walked in with a first round pick, and walked out with a first round level player.

FWIW, I expect a similar thing to happen this draft. Which is why I keep seeing Shane Pinto as a possibility. So take my reply to you as an attempt to preemptively get you off the ledge.

As per your original post, trading Romanov+ for a better defender. I had a hard time finding a fit. But @seafoam, brought up Shea Theodore. That's someone I could get behind the Isles acquiring. However with the cap increasing, it likely puts him into the 9M+ territory. Which is the same reason ~5M for Romanov will not be out of the question soon.

Very much respect this post. A few things...

• Correct I didn't want Fiala, but would I have wanted Fiala over Romanov? Yes I would and I hope most of us would if given only those 2 choices. But as you said...Sounded like it was a non-starter.
• In regards to Montreal re-trading the pick for Dach...Just because another team makes a bad move doesn't justify any of Lou's moves. Not like that management team in Montreal is doing a great job in their few years on the job. A year earlier they traded a 1st+ for Newhook so they seem to enjoy young reclamation projects.
• Had Lou just kept the pick there were some good young talent they could've drafted (and even traded down to acquire more assets before drafting), but of course that's not in the cards for a GM who refuses to take his foot off the gas...Even when approaching a cliff.

Regarding the bolded above...I am very much off the ledge when it comes to this team because I already know that this team isn't getting close to a Cup as long as Lou is GM so I have zero expectations like I did when wang was owner. Right now I'm just waiting for Lou's replacement and praying that guy doesn't have the same last name. Therefore until then if I have "preemptive" anything it is accepted disappointment.

F the capitals for buying Capfriendly btw

Yes because it's easily a top 5 website that I visit, but it's a very smart move for them.

 

[periferal]

If Nelson were to be moved, it isn't to be done to bring in another proven goalscorer.

He's the only "available" guy on the team who will bring you a young NHL with strong upside, a blue-chipper, and a 1st rounder.

Highly thinkable that if, say, Barry Trotz would be keen on bringing him over, you'd see a deal like Luke Evangelista, Matthew Wood, and a '25 1st rounder (they have two).

You may even get one of their three 2nd rounders this year as well if there's a bidding war.

***
Then you go out and sign a UFA for next season to bring back a chunk of the offense you've just lost.

***
If he moves a "core" producer of any sort, it'll be the first time.

In the blind I'd make you GM of the Isles. You're always rational, informed, and think big picture.

 

[periferal]

moving Nelson means starting the retool/rebuild move Palms than the next year Lee and Pageau

I don't care what it means. Resigning any 30+ year old to a 7-8 year deal as they are leaving their prime is a dumb GM move...And that's what Lou is probably going to do with at least 2 of those 3.

One of these years this aging team is just going to fall off a cliff and be a top lottery team...And probably not even have their 1st rounder because Lou only GMs one way - Go all in all the time regardless of circumstance.

 

[doublechili]

3 weeks and counting on an opportunity for an easy rebuild, before Sorokin and Barzal have NMC/NTCs that kick in on July 1st. Trade both of them. Trade Dobson and Romanov - they both have zero trade protection. Trade Nelson and Palmieri (only 16 team NTCs). Trade all 6 of those guys and you get significant assets back. And you have a bad team. Then Horvat, Pelech and Pulock would likely waive their NTCs rather than play on a bottom feeder. At that point you have to fill out a roster and meet the cap floor, so it becomes a positive that you have guys like Lee, JGP, Mayfield, etc..

I wouldn't do this, but is this scenario impossible? Am I missing something?

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

I think some in here are freelancing their decisions based on non-reality with the guise that someone other than Lou is still the GM.

When I say trading Nelson would be counter-productive, I am of course realizing the reality that Lou is the GM and I think he is looking to add to our top 6 and not subtract from it. I have yet to see him trade one of his actual performers for a young project or a 1st round pick- I doubt this offseason is any different....

 

[Osakahaus]

I think some in here are freelancing their decisions based on non-reality with the guise that someone other than Lou is still the GM.

When I say trading Nelson would be counter-productive, I am of course realizing the reality that Lou is the GM and I think he is looking to add to our top 6 and not subtract from it. I have yet to see him trade one of his actual performers for a young project or a 1st round pick- I doubt this offseason is any different....

What if he doesnt trade #20? I think Lamoriello probably keeps this pick either way.

 

[WangMustGo]

3 weeks and counting on an opportunity for an easy rebuild, before Sorokin and Barzal have NMC/NTCs that kick in on July 1st. Trade both of them. Trade Dobson and Romanov - they both have zero trade protection. Trade Nelson and Palmieri (only 16 team NTCs). Trade all 6 of those guys and you get significant assets back. And you have a bad team. Then Horvat, Pelech and Pulock would likely waive their NTCs rather than play on a bottom feeder. At that point you have to fill out a roster and meet the cap floor, so it becomes a positive that you have guys like Lee, JGP, Mayfield, etc..

I wouldn't do this, but is this scenario impossible? Am I missing something?

Sounds exciting, can’t wait to have a Sabres like future of no playoffs for a decade.

Scortched earth rebuild makes no sense for this team. A retool, sure I could see the argument, and may even be for it. A complete rebuild is extremely foolish.

 

[Tres Peleches]

As much as I love Nelson, he is going to be a cap casualty. Unless he’s willing to sign another sweetheart mid-term deal for less money (which he won’t and shouldn’t) you need to trade him to recoup assets if you’re not 100% for sure a cup contender by the middle of next season

 

[leeroggy]

3 weeks and counting on an opportunity for an easy rebuild, before Sorokin and Barzal have NMC/NTCs that kick in on July 1st. Trade both of them. Trade Dobson and Romanov - they both have zero trade protection. Trade Nelson and Palmieri (only 16 team NTCs). Trade all 6 of those guys and you get significant assets back. And you have a bad team. Then Horvat, Pelech and Pulock would likely waive their NTCs rather than play on a bottom feeder. At that point you have to fill out a roster and meet the cap floor, so it becomes a positive that you have guys like Lee, JGP, Mayfield, etc..

I wouldn't do this, but is this scenario impossible? Am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing your IQ . . . check Al Gore's Lock Box, it might be there . . .

 

[saintunspecified]

The barrier to the Nelson trade now is that the teams that really could use in place so they can go in to UFA season feeling more secure traded their valuable 2024 picks. And why trade 2025 picks now? Also, 2025 picks aren't as much as a help to NYI now.

This is why I'd have preferred trading Nelson at the deadline.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

I don't care what it means. Resigning any 30+ year old to a 7-8 year deal as they are leaving their prime is a dumb GM move...And that's what Lou is probably going to do with at least 2 of those 3.

One of these years this aging team is just going to fall off a cliff and be a top lottery team...And probably not even have their 1st rounder because Lou only GMs one way - Go all in all the time regardless of circumstance.

2 of which 3?

As I said before, Nelson will be 34 when the 2025-26 season starts and Palms will turn 35 in the middle of that season....

Not sure who the other one is but god forbid it is Lee, who will be 36 when his current contract runs out or Pageau who will be 33 when his does.

Surely Lou isnt that stupid....

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

What if he doesnt trade #20? I think Lamoriello probably keeps this pick either way.

He could, but I would still lean on him moving it.

His trade down already (to get the extra pick) only increases the chance he is looking to deal- and we know one of his 2nd rounders is likely the cost to move off a contract.

One could argue the possible trade list of available players is more attractive than this FA class as well.

Considering we havent selected a 1st round pick this decade yet, I'd put the odds under 50/50 he keeps pick 20.

Also not sure what keeping it has to do with trading Nelson anyway (which is what you were replying to)

 

[periferal]

2 of which 3?

As I said before, Nelson will be 34 when the 2025-26 season starts and Palms will turn 35 in the middle of that season....

Not sure who the other one is but god forbid it is Lee, who will be 36 when his current contract runs out or Pageau who will be 33 when his does.

Surely Lou isnt that stupid....

The fact that we're even discussing our GM is terms of HOW stupid he is, is a massive problem.