Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[doublechili]

I wish he was more Belichickian in his ways

()

 

[leeroggy]

Would you like to respond to anything I said about the team and the performance of the team? Or have you already made up your mind and need to lean on personal attacks? Usually you go for the latter.

You don't know anything about me if you think that. Not surprising. Responding to your points has been done here 765,992 times already. The fact you think being injured means that he's not an important part of the development and sustaining of the team's culture says it all.

We all know Lou is too loyal to his own to trade Lee.

This both a positive from a player's perspective (and potential free agents) but a negative from a fan's perspective urging him to do whatever it takes.

I can appreciate the loyalty but I wish he was more Belichickian in his ways and see the drop off in a player before said player goes off the cliff.

NFL contracts are designed to make player movement easy, the NHL player's union is more stringent in keeping flexibility out of player movement in their negotiations. Belichick would be pulling his hair out under these rules.

 

[Lights911]

You don't know anything about me if you think that. Not surprising. Responding to your points has been done here 765,992 times already. The fact you think being injured means that he's not an important part of the development and sustaining of the team's culture says it all.

I'm done engaging here. You haven't responded to a single one of my points. All you did was call me clueless for saying that the King Clancy Award shouldn't stop Lou from moving Lee because it would be "embarrassing" for him. Hooray, another mediocre roster and a first round pounding by the Hurricanes coming. But don't worry, the organizational culture is so great! If I'm on Disney channel, would Nickelodeon be a good spot for you?

 

[seabass45]

Just saw something about Kaliyev being on the block. Swamp of underperformers w/ Wahlstrom could be nice, not sure if that’s what LA is looking for though.

 

[BelovedIsles]

Explore all avenues to shed Lee and JGP’s cap space. They simply take up too much space for what they produce; and they are on a sharp decline.

13 mil, essentially, for two 3rd liners.

 

[JPIsles18]

Explore all avenues to shed Lee and JGP’s cap space. They simply take up too much space for what they produce; and they are on a sharp decline.

13 mil, essentially, for two 3rd liners.

As much as I agree with this, the Isles should probably keep Lee even at that number. He was pretty good on the 3rd line and looked quicker in the playoffs. In a season where Clutterbuck and Martin will be lost, leadership is still quite important and I believe Lee can be a 40-50 pt player on a 3rd line if they can figure out a way to properly use him on the PP. It's not ideal, but if they're trying to win, Lee would be a huge loss for them in the locker room.

JGP however, needs to be moved. With the emergence of Kyle Maclean, this is the Isles best chance at infusing some skill into the lineup. Unfortunately, JGP has never lived up to that contract and will continue to decline. I really hope we don't have to sweeten the deal as his actual salary is less than cap hit. Perhaps there are GMs, like Lou, who believes he is more than an average 4th line forward.

Isles also need to see if they can trade Pelech. His contract is long and he does have a NTC, but if they can get anything for him, perhaps they can upgrade the top 4 D with some offensive pop. Besides Dobson (and Reilly, if he returns), the back end is fairly offensively inept on the back end.

If they can't deal Pelech, I would love to see what we can get for Romanov. While I would like to keep him, he will likely get overpaid on his next contract and is stilly fairly one dimensional. I prefer not to move him, but at 2.5 mil, with one season left, this may be the highest value he'll have. Not ideal, but they need to figure out a way to add more offense to the top 4. There's a bit too much redundancy at the moment.

 

[saintunspecified]

If they can't deal Pelech, I would love to see what we can get for Romanov. While I would like to keep him, he will likely get overpaid on his next contract and is stilly fairly one dimensional. I prefer not to move him, but at 2.5 mil, with one season left, this may be the highest value he'll have. Not ideal, but they need to figure out a way to add more offense to the top 4. There's a bit too much redundancy at the moment.

I feel like the scenario where NYI possibly deals Pelech as very unlikely. Basically, if his defensive impact nears what it was by the deadline, and the Islanders are out of it, It might be worth moving him. But that's so unlikely because if his defensive impact nears what it was, it's very likely NYI will be buyers, not sellers. If, otoh, he continues to decline, NYI would have to eat money or send assets to deal him.

And if NYI have to deal Romanov, may as well tear the whole thing down, and spend 40 years in the desert. There's nobody to replace him internally, and going outside to replace him will cost more in assets or money.

I agree with you about the JGP move. It's the one to make, and leave the door open to get a top-6 winger, but I don't see a reason to jump unless a move is there. After that, NYI need to focus on obtaining versatile forwards for the bottom 6 who can penalty kill. Improving the PK (and balance out the zone time about at ES in the bottom 6) is the best bang for cap dollar way to improve the team now.

The long discussed Pulock-Ehlers swap makes sense for NYI. I don't know if it does for WPG. Pulock is being paid as a top-4 D who makes offensive contributions, but is being used in a shutdown role. NYI can probably pay less for that, and getting a top-6 winger with speed in the wash would be good.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

Explore all avenues to shed Lee and JGP’s cap space. They simply take up too much space for what they produce; and they are on a sharp decline.

13 mil, essentially, for two 3rd liners.

13?

 

[beach]

As much as I agree with this, the Isles should probably keep Lee even at that number. He was pretty good on the 3rd line and looked quicker in the playoffs. In a season where Clutterbuck and Martin will be lost, leadership is still quite important and I believe Lee can be a 40-50 pt player on a 3rd line if they can figure out a way to properly use him on the PP. It's not ideal, but if they're trying to win, Lee would be a huge loss for them in the locker room.

JGP however, needs to be moved. With the emergence of Kyle Maclean, this is the Isles best chance at infusing some skill into the lineup. Unfortunately, JGP has never lived up to that contract and will continue to decline. I really hope we don't have to sweeten the deal as his actual salary is less than cap hit. Perhaps there are GMs, like Lou, who believes he is more than an average 4th line forward.

Isles also need to see if they can trade Pelech. His contract is long and he does have a NTC, but if they can get anything for him, perhaps they can upgrade the top 4 D with some offensive pop. Besides Dobson (and Reilly, if he returns), the back end is fairly offensively inept on the back end.

If they can't deal Pelech, I would love to see what we can get for Romanov. While I would like to keep him, he will likely get overpaid on his next contract and is stilly fairly one dimensional. I prefer not to move him, but at 2.5 mil, with one season left, this may be the highest value he'll have. Not ideal, but they need to figure out a way to add more offense to the top 4. There's a bit too much redundancy at the moment.

I agree about moving Pags, but we would then be in dire need of a faceoff guy.

 

[MJF]

And if NYI have to deal Romanov, may as well tear the whole thing down, and spend 40 years in the desert. There's nobody to replace him internally, and going outside to replace him will cost more in assets or money.

You mean ANOTHER 40 years???

 

[periferal]

Just depressing around here. Instead of talking about being excited about things like seeing a blue chip rookie make his debut, looking forward for some young players taking their next step, or adding that "final piece" for a Cup run, almost every post if about how we have to shed multiple average and declining players who aren't living up to their bloated contracts.

Maybe even worse are too many fans not understanding...If we don't want these players, then no professional NHL GM is going to want them either - Without making it very enticing for him to accept them in a deal.

Add it all up and you have a GM that is failing us. Period. I can understand why it's hard for many fans to see because so many players in this lineup were played in back to back semifinals a few years ago. However most of those players are worse and the #1 reason for the success a few years ago (Trotz) is long gone.

This team isn't good enough and getting older/worse, and yet the GM keeping going all in while pushing the credit card bill more and more into the future. Pains me to say it, but given the roster, cap space, lack of young talent, etc, no GM running this team could make it a Cup contender in one offseason (and probably multiple). However what should not happen is making moves that push the possiblity of success further and further into the future...And unfortunately that is what this GM has been doing.

 

[saintunspecified]

You mean ANOTHER 40 years???

40 year wanderings are like curses on the ancient Egyptians - when discussed, they multiply.

(This is joke likely only Jews will understand).

 

[MJF]

40 year wanderings are like curses on the ancient Egyptians - when discussed, they multiply.

(This is joke likely only Jews will understand).

Dayenu!

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Maybe even worse are too many fans not understanding...If we don't want these players, then no professional NHL GM is going to want them either - Without making it very enticing for him to accept them in a deal.

There are varying levels to this though. We as fans do not want them because of our hard hitting analysis of "he sucks" when in reality the player does have some worth.

And we may even feel more of that way "he sucks" because there is glut of similar players on the roster that we would rather use as a cheaper option.

Like Pageau, he is still a useful hockey player on the ice. I truly believe he is valuable to other GM's whose teams are in different stages of competing and cap space (I'm looking at you Anaheim).

For others like Lee, I agree with you. At this stage of his career and considering the state of the league, no one is signing up for a 34yo power forward at 7mm AAV for the next 2 years. Unless (as you point out) there is a shiny 1st round pick attached to him.

 

[periferal]

There are varying levels to this though. We as fans do not want them because of our hard hitting analysis of "he sucks" when in reality the player does have some worth.

And we may even feel more of that way "he sucks" because there is glut of similar players on the roster that we would rather use as a cheaper option.

Like Pageau, he is still a useful hockey player on the ice. I truly believe he is valuable to other GM's whose teams are in different stages of competing and cap space (I'm looking at you Anaheim).

For others like Lee, I agree with you. At this stage of his career and considering the state of the league, no one is signing up for a 34yo power forward at 7mm AAV for the next 2 years. Unless (as you point out) there is a shiny 1st round pick attached to him.

Appreciate your take here and the nuanced reply, but it goes even deeper. We can't just think of what the Isles have to offer in a trade, but what the rest of the league does as well. And you have to take into account the situation the rest of the league knows Lou has put the Isles in.

So if you're a GM of any other team, if you reach out to all 31 teams and shop around, I guarantee there will be multiple players you could have in a trade that represent better overall values than Pageau and Lee. So when you take that into account, along with the fact that those other GMs know that :Lou needs to dump salary to have a chance at improving the team, it means Lou is going to have to overpay to make moves (which he does even when he doesn't have to make moves).

Then combine that with the non-existent farm system to trade and you see why a move was already made to add a pick. Because Lou is going to probably need to use a bunch of the best ones to pull off meaningful trades this offseason.

Right now Lou is running this team like a credit card holder with a $10,000 balance incurring tons in interest penalties because they keep just paying the minimum amount each month. At some point you've got to bite the bullet and pay off the entire amount or you're not going to ever get out of debt.

 

[islesfan3913]

There's a huge gap between Lee's production and Bailey's. Lee at $7 million is a better value than Bailey at $5 million.

Bailey gave us 30 goals in his last 192 games here. Bailey also was a giveaway machine the last 3 years - 129 in those 192 games, while Lee gave it away 79 times in 239 games versus 76 goals.

To be fair though, they’re very different players. Bailey had the puck on his stick much more than Lee had/does so it’s naturally going to lead to more giveaways, especially because Bailey was much more of a playmaker than someone who was being set up to score like Lee is.

Also, I don’t think their production and the drop off is as far off as you’re saying. Lee is definitely the better goalscorer which is important, but he just put up a 0.46 Pts/G season compared to his career 0.60 whereas Bailey had a 0.39 Pts/G rate in his last season compared to his career 0.55.

I’m not defending Bailey or trying to trash Lee, but their drop offs are somewhat comparable so far. Lee could always rebound, but at 34 he’s going to have a lot of milage on him and him not being useful outside of just standing in front of the net and hoping for deflections or rebounds is going to become more of an issue at $7 million per year. At least Bailey you could hope for solid defensive play and the odd great pass that leads to a goal. Lee has no hope for anything like what whatsoever.

 

[leeroggy]

To be fair though, they’re very different players. Bailey had the puck on his stick much more than Lee had/does so it’s naturally going to lead to more giveaways, especially because Bailey was much more of a playmaker than someone who was being set up to score like Lee is.

Also, I don’t think their production and the drop off is as far off as you’re saying. Lee is definitely the better goalscorer which is important, but he just put up a 0.46 Pts/G season compared to his career 0.60 whereas Bailey had a 0.39 Pts/G rate in his last season compared to his career 0.55.

I’m not defending Bailey or trying to trash Lee, but their drop offs are somewhat comparable so far. Lee could always rebound, but at 34 he’s going to have a lot of milage on him and him not being useful outside of just standing in front of the net and hoping for deflections or rebounds is going to become more of an issue at $7 million per year. At least Bailey you could hope for solid defensive play and the odd great pass that leads to a goal. Lee has no hope for anything like what whatsoever.

Everyone who follows sports injury recovery time knows next season is his full recovery. We saw that in the last quarter and playoffs how much better he was than earlier in the season. If he skates like that for a full season, he'll be back to 25+ goals.
Age is not an issue yet for his style of play, which got far more physical in the latter stages.
Let's also not forget he was taking on fights when Martin was out if the lineup.
He will likely have a rebound year

 

[LeapOnOver]

Explore all avenues to shed Lee and JGP’s cap space. They simply take up too much space for what they produce; and they are on a sharp decline.

13 mil, essentially, for two 3rd liners.

As much as I agree with this, the Isles should probably keep Lee even at that number. He was pretty good on the 3rd line and looked quicker in the playoffs. In a season where Clutterbuck and Martin will be lost, leadership is still quite important and I believe Lee can be a 40-50 pt player on a 3rd line if they can figure out a way to properly use him on the PP. It's not ideal, but if they're trying to win, Lee would be a huge loss for them in the locker room.

JGP however, needs to be moved. With the emergence of Kyle Maclean, this is the Isles best chance at infusing some skill into the lineup. Unfortunately, JGP has never lived up to that contract and will continue to decline. I really hope we don't have to sweeten the deal as his actual salary is less than cap hit. Perhaps there are GMs, like Lou, who believes he is more than an average 4th line forward.

Isles also need to see if they can trade Pelech. His contract is long and he does have a NTC, but if they can get anything for him, perhaps they can upgrade the top 4 D with some offensive pop. Besides Dobson (and Reilly, if he returns), the back end is fairly offensively inept on the back end.

If they can't deal Pelech, I would love to see what we can get for Romanov. While I would like to keep him, he will likely get overpaid on his next contract and is stilly fairly one dimensional. I prefer not to move him, but at 2.5 mil, with one season left, this may be the highest value he'll have. Not ideal, but they need to figure out a way to add more offense to the top 4. There's a bit too much redundancy at the moment.

Moot point really...does anyone think LL is going to trade Anders Lee?

 

[Osakahaus]

Moot point really...does anyone think LL is going to trade Anders Lee?

if Lou traded Bailey, then Anders is not safe at all

The longer these playoffs go, the more I just wish the islanders can get a guy like Rodrigues or Forsling

 

[Big L]

7+5=12

 

[JPIsles18]

if Lou traded Bailey, then Anders is not safe at all

The longer these playoffs go, the more I just wish the islanders can get a guy like Rodrigues or Forsling

Lou treasures guys like Lee, so probably not.

Rodrigues and Forsling are the types of players you need to make long playoff runs and be consistent contenders. These players are diamonds in the rough. I've long been critical of LL because he doesn't seem to have the ability or the interest to target such players. He is heavy handed. He likes expensive, known commodities. He doesn't have a nuanced approach to adding players. For instance, he's much more likely to spend premium assets and cap space on a guy like JGP than to sign an Evan Rodrigues, a relative unknown.

He has tried sporadically with players like Engvall and Rielly, but for the most part he targets expensive players in their late 20s with a track record of success. Which is why we have an expensive and underwhelming bottom 6, with not enough cap to improve our top 6.

 

[MarsTBOW]

If Clutter and MM both retire and we are able to trade away Pageau.
Zeeker can move to the 3rd line Center and we will have Two forth line spots open if KMac is kept on the 4th line.
I wonder if Lou would be bold enough to bring in a Guy like Dakota Joshua for Size and Grit to play the 4th Line?
This would mean Either Joshua or KMac would have to play the wing leaving one more spot open.
And NO, I do not want Hudson Fasching playing the other wing, he barely hits and closes Gaps very slowly due to his slow skating.
We need Size, Grit and Speed Badly after watching especially these playoffs this year...
Every other Contending Team has an extra Gear that we no longer possess....
BTW I Love Evans Rodrigues types of players. We need 2 like him!

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

If Clutter and MM both retire and we are able to trade away Pageau.
Zeeker can move to the 3rd line Center and we will have Two forth line spots open if KMac is kept on the 4th line.
I wonder if Lou would be bold enough to bring in a Guy like Dakota Joshua for Size and Grit to play the 4th Line?
This would mean Either Joshua or KMac would have to play the wing leaving one more spot open.
And NO, I do not want Hudson Fasching playing the other wing, he barely hits and closes Gaps very slowly due to his slow skating.
We need Size, Grit and Speed Badly after watching especially these playoffs this year...
Every other Contending Team has an extra Gear that we no longer possess....
BTW I Love Evans Rodrigues types of players. We need 2 like him!

Cheapest option is Gauthier.

 

[crashthenet]

I agree about moving Pags, but we would then be in dire need of a faceoff guy.

His FO stats seemingly belie his performance. He lost so many critical faceoffs. I know what the numbers say but it wasn't uncommon for teams to opt for right dot faceoffs and for him to lose them. He may have been one of our worst defensive players statically.

I agree we need a player that can draw on the right side. If JGP gets moved, 2 players I like are Monahan and Blueger.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I wonder if Lou would be bold enough to bring in a Guy like Dakota Joshua for Size and Grit to play the 4th Line?

Problem here is that DJ is being sought after by half the league.

He's in for UGGGGE payday.

It's definitely true though that we've gotta upgrade not only on Martin and Clutterbuck, but Fasching and Gauthier as well.

I continue to think that Beauvillier at 1 MM per (or less) for the bottom six could be a seriously good move.

***
CAVEAT:
I officially have zero problem with re-upping Clutterbuck if the likes of Pageau, Lee, and Wahlstrom are moved while the Gautheirs of the world serve as AHL extras.