Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[periferal]

When you can't attract talent, you either sign over-the-hill veterans or guarantee fringe players term in exchange for AAV.

Some work out and some don't, but I think periferal is wearing rose tinted glasses. Did he forget about Filppula, Lehner, Brassard, Chara, Parise?

Filppula, Lehner, Brassard, Chara, Parise were all +++ signings. Why? They cost nothing in terms of cap hit or years committed. Lou should make those kind of signings all the time.

It's the mid-level Engvall/Mayfield type of signings that he sucks at. Instead take the 6.5M that the two of them are costing, sign two close to minimum guys like listed above, and then take the roughly 5M in savings and really improve the team.

That's how you GM to success, as opposed to gumming up the cap long-term so that now, once again, the GM has to trade more picks to get rid of his bad signings (just to bring back an average team).

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Guys are elite on other teams, but comparable guys on the Islanders are not.

 

[seafoam]

Filppula, Lehner, Brassard, Chara, Parise were all +++ signings. Why? They cost nothing in terms of cap hit or years committed. Lou should make those kind of signings all the time.

It's the mid-level Engvall/Mayfield type of signings that he sucks at. Instead take the 6.5M that the two of them are costing, sign two close to minimum guys like listed above, and then take the roughly 5M in savings and really improve the team.

That's how you GM to success, as opposed to gumming up the cap long-term so that now, once again, the GM has to trade more picks to get rid of his bad signings (just to bring back an average team).

They're one year into Engvall & Mayfield's deals. Mayfield was injured in the first month of the season.

You're jumping the gun on the evaluation of these deals.

 

[Osakahaus]

They're one year into Engvall & Mayfield's deals. Mayfield was injured in the first month of the season.

You're jumping the gun on the evaluation of these deals.

And IMO Engvall played very well one Roy came in

So lets see what Roy does this offseason

 

[MikeyMike01]

I just had a horrible thought. All these years on this board it's just been me and one other guy pretending to be the rest of the posters.

Solipsism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[LeapOnOver]

So you need elite players to win a Cup, but there's no way for the Isles to sign or trade for any this offseason...So we should just focus on acquiring players that will keep this team average for years...

What are we even doing here? Do fans want to win or stick their head in the sane and tolerate mediocrity?

First of all, you know we are just fans right? None of us are initiating trades. Lamenting the fact that their is war in Ukraine and Palestine, but not talking about it is not sticking your head in the sand. It's recognizing you shouldn't get upset over things out of your control. It's life 101.

With that being said, every fan in the NHL wants to add an elite player to their roster. We are just one of those teams. So I think the average, level-headed fan, acknowledges the weaknesses, hopes for improvement, but also doesn't mind making the playoffs every year and hoping the current core can put it together. There is a team very similar to ours talent wise that won the cup in the last ten years (the Blues) so it's not like it's unheard of. I saw a stat on Reddit that shows we are 10th in playoff victories going back ten years. That's success.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Forsling was a waiver claim 4 years ago at age 23. He had shown nothing more than potential 3rd-pair after going for 3G/6A, -9 in 43 games. He was a 5th round pick in 2014.

Diamond in the rough? You'd have to be a genius to think he'd turn into this.

The revisionist history here astonishes at times . . .

Same with Verhaege. Most fans acknowledge the absurdity of it, but there's still some that use that as organization stupidity evidence, lol.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

They're one year into Engvall & Mayfield's deals. Mayfield was injured in the first month of the season.

You're jumping the gun on the evaluation of these deals.

Just take the $5m and sign a guy.

 

[impaaaaaact]

That's cool. Totally your right. For me I'm not in it to see the team win "from time to time." That's basically what they've been doing the past 2 years and it's frustratingly unsatisfying.

All I want is a Cup and when you look at basically every Cup winner/contender, much less dynasty, over the past 20 years and essentially every one of those franchises did "tank for 3-4 years" to get those high picks which got elite players. To wit...

• Penguins - Fleury, Crosby, Malkin, Staal
• Kings - Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Schenn (led to Richards)
• Blackhawks - Toews, Kane, Seabrook
• Lightning - Stamkos, Hedman, Drouin (led to Sergachev)
• Avalanche - MacKinnon, Rantonen, Makar, Landeskog
• Oilers - McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent-Hopkins, Nurse
• Panthers - Barkov, Ekblad, Huberdeau (led to Tkachuk)

And this doesn't include so many other stellar trades/picks by these clubs. It's obvious to anyone paying attention that while nothing is 100% in life, there is certainly a pattern to how to build a juggernaut in today's NHL. I can promise you that hoping the Isles win a Cup in the next 3-5 years with the way they're built and the moves the GM is making is much more of a "lotto ticket" than drafting a few guys in the top 10 picks and building from there.




Feel free to analyze Snow's moves in detail, but it's more a comment about Lou's contracts.

Sometimes you end up with Reinhart, MDC, Strome and Nino. Obviously it seems like that’s the exception to the rule here and it’s possible we could end up with a dynasty. But it’s also fully within the realm of possibility we end up in the same exact spot we’re in now after 4 years as a bottom feeder. While we’re still making the playoffs every year I’d rather hope to get hot at the right time, maybe get super lucky lucky and find a Point-esque value late in the draft. I can’t condone blowing it up until we are consistently not making the playoffs.

 

[Osakahaus]

Sometimes you end up with Reinhart, MDC, Strome and Nino. Obviously it seems like that’s the exception to the rule here and it’s possible we could end up with a dynasty. But it’s also fully within the realm of possibility we end up in the same exact spot we’re in now after 4 years as a bottom feeder. While we’re still making the playoffs every year I’d rather hope to get hot at the right time, maybe get super lucky lucky and find a Point-esque value late in the draft. I can’t condone blowing it up until we are consistently not making the playoffs.

and the Islanders also have been able to still find decent players as chips. I think one of Jeffries/Maggio/Odellius/Ishakov become impact players, and we also could use Ishakov as a guy who maybe fetches a decent return as well.

you never know what you got unless you don't try.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

But it’s also fully within the realm of possibility we end up in the same exact spot we’re in now after 4 years as a bottom feeder.

People avoid reality by investing themselves in hopes and dreams.

 

[JRD76]

and the Islanders also have been able to still find decent players as chips. I think one of Jeffries/Maggio/Odellius/Ishakov become impact players, and we also could use Ishakov as a guy who maybe fetches a decent return as well.

you never know what you got unless you don't try.

Ishakov should watch videos or be watching these playoffs of Stankoven playing. They're basically same size and weight. He's always moving and creating things. Very active player.

 

[Osakahaus]

Ishakov should watch videos or be watching these playoffs of Stankoven playing. They're basically same size and weight. He's always moving and creating things. Very active player.

What I love about Stankoven is that his stick is EVERYWHERE. the dude simply just makes it hard to work in the neutral zone. There isnt anything wrong with that, and its why I wish we saw that level of play from our forwards. Its makes it a living hell for a bunch of forwards to even move the puck forward

 

[seabass45]

Sometimes you end up with Reinhart, MDC, Strome and Nino.

This is just bad drafting, particularly given some of the alternatives we passed on (2012 was particularly notable since we picked first of a long run of d-men and ended up with one of the worst out of the bunch). I will note though that at one point we were bad enough to draft #2 at one point in 2010 but we went on a late run that put us two points ahead of Florida and tied with Columbus, five points ahead of Toronto (who had to send that pick to Boston). Building off of Tavares-Seguin would have been much better than Tavares-Nino.

 

[JPIsles18]

So your argument is that the bottom of your roster should be earning close to league minimum, but yet as you also mention...The current bottom 6 is overpaid to produce "mediocre results." So we have a GM who is constructing a roster exactly the opposite of what you think should be done.

And the "Isles aren't in the habit overpaying at pretty much every position" - Lou is. Even Snow was better at signing value deals.

And even having limited picks, the Isles have been pretty bad at drafting under Lou. Maybe that's why he keeps dealing picks away - So he doesn't have to embarrass himself by actually using them.

Yes, the roster construction is less than ideal and lazy. This has been true ever since Lou took over. Trotz squeezed every last bit of the roster to make two improbable runs. Instead of actually improving the team, Lou has more or less brought the same team back. Now, very predictably, we have overpaid bottom of the lineup type of players.

 

[MarsTBOW]

Sometimes you end up with Reinhart, MDC, Strome and Nino. Obviously it seems like that’s the exception to the rule here and it’s possible we could end up with a dynasty. But it’s also fully within the realm of possibility we end up in the same exact spot we’re in now after 4 years as a bottom feeder. While we’re still making the playoffs every year I’d rather hope to get hot at the right time, maybe get super lucky lucky and find a Point-esque value late in the draft. I can’t condone blowing it up until we are consistently not making the playoffs.

Mushy Middle

 

[periferal]

Sometimes you end up with Reinhart, MDC, Strome and Nino.

And sometimes you have an owner who reads, "Hockey for Dummies," and hires a totally unqualified current roster player to be the GM.

Other times you get owners who can secure a brand new 1st class arena after they took control of the team.

Obviously it seems like that’s the exception to the rule here and it’s possible we could end up with a dynasty. But it’s also fully within the realm of possibility we end up in the same exact spot we’re in now after 4 years as a bottom feeder.

Of course anything is possible, but the facts are that if you want to become a legit Cup contender, much less a dynasty, you need to be drafting those players in the top 10 (and probably top 5). Again just look at the list of almost every Cup winner the past 20 years and how they acuqired they're most talented players/core of the team.

While we’re still making the playoffs every year I’d rather hope to get hot at the right time, maybe get super lucky lucky and find a Point-esque value late in the draft. I can’t condone blowing it up until we are consistently not making the playoffs.

Last year the Isles made the playoffs by 2 points. This year the East was so terrible the Capitals made it. Every year there are teams the make the playoffs that basically have no shot of winning it all, but that's what happens when you have a league that takes 50% of it's teams to the 2nd season.

It's not just where you are, but what direction you're heading. This is not the same team that made the semi-finals 3 years ago now (both because they're older, but most specifically because Trotz isn't here).

Bottom line is...We'll see. Let's check back 3 years from now and if they Isles keep making the playoffs as the 6th seed or worse, get nowhere near the semi-finals, and most of the core is in their early to mid 30's (and the GM is in his mid-80's), wondering how many out there will still still be ok with "we're average, but could get very very lucky at anytime."

 

[Osakahaus]

This is just bad drafting, particularly given some of the alternatives we passed on (2012 was particularly notable since we picked first of a long run of d-men and ended up with one of the worst out of the bunch). I will note though that at one point we were bad enough to draft #2 at one point in 2010 but we went on a late run that put us two points ahead of Florida and tied with Columbus, five points ahead of Toronto (who had to send that pick to Boston). Building off of Tavares-Seguin would have been much better than Tavares-Nino.

Lets be real the isles would've ruined Seguin as well. They didnt do well enough at prospect development as well during that era.

 

[The Real JT]

wondering how many out there will still still be ok with "we're average, but could get very very lucky at anytime."

But the cap is going up.

On a more serious note, notwithstanding Skinner and Georgiev before him, average or worse goalies don’t typically vie for the Cup.

I give Sorokin a pass on this season and I still think he’s elite at his position. Even with him, this team is more than one key player away from being a legitimate contender. I think the prudent thing to do in the off-season is to trade both Nelson and Palmieri, assuming there is a decent market for them. For those who would rather wait for the TDL, that’s playing with fire in my mind.

Trade JGP? Sure as long as it takes no more than a second rounder. I don’t think anyone picks him up without either picks or retention on our part. I would keep the Captain for a number of reasons, the first being the cost to unload him and the second being that he still has some value in his play and his leadership. Give him one more year and the cost to unload him will be much less.

 

[Osakahaus]

Trade JGP? Sure as long as it takes no more than a second rounder. I don’t think anyone picks him up without either picks or retention on our part. I would keep the Captain for a number of reasons, the first being the cost to unload him and the second being that he still has some value in his play and his leadership. Give him one more year and the cost to unload him will be much less.

I think it'll be a JGP trade eventually with one of the 2nds, and the Islanders use their 1st to draft a guy who can be pro-ready by 2025.

 

[JJ18Sniper]

Lets be real the isles would've ruined Seguin as well. They didnt do well enough at prospect development as well during that era.

IIRC, Snow and Janikowski wanted Ryan Johansen at #5. Columbus took him right before us which was unexpected and led to the desperation Nino pick.

Pre-dating all of this... I was on the Ryan O'Reilly train at the top of the 2nd round of the 2009 draft. Tavares/O'Reilly would have set up at center. We took Mikko Kosiken instead and he went 2 picks later.

 

[Osakahaus]

IIRC, Snow and Janikowski wanted Ryan Johansen at #5. Columbus took him right before us which was unexpected and led to the desperation Nino pick.

Pre-dating all of this... I was on the Ryan O'Reilly train at the top of the 2nd round of the 2009 draft. Tavares/O'Reilly would have set up at center. We took Mikko Kosiken instead and he went 2 picks later.

Yeah lets be very honest: our scouting in those days cost us a lot more talent than it should have

 

[saintunspecified]

BI think the prudent thing to do in the off-season is to trade both Nelson and Palmieri, assuming there is a decent market for them. For those who would rather wait for the TDL, that’s playing with fire in my mind.

Who acquires them in the offseason, and what can you get for them?

If you think it's risky for NYI to trade them now, consider how risky it could be for other teams, especially if we're talking about 2025 picks. There could be more/different teams involved at the deadline. We don't know who is going to jump from being a nothing to contending, but it ought to be someone.

Consider Nelson. Minnesota isn't going to make a deal *now*, but they might if they're 2nd in the Central next season. Montreal isn't going to make a deal *now*, but they might if they're in a playoff spot half way through. Maybe Nashville but not now.

Teams like Colorado, or Boston who could really use him right away, don't have much to offer.

Palmieri is worse - he's a winger, and had a pretty bad season at even strength. His value is that his grit is potentially more valuable in the playoffs. So, who is going to make the deal now? Even if you give him away? And would it be worth it to give him away?

 

[crashthenet]

IIRC, Snow and Janikowski wanted Ryan Johansen at #5. Columbus took him right before us which was unexpected and led to the desperation Nino pick.

Pre-dating all of this... I was on the Ryan O'Reilly train at the top of the 2nd round of the 2009 draft. Tavares/O'Reilly would have set up at center. We took Mikko Kosiken instead and he went 2 picks later.

I was convinced Johansen was the pick and quite honestly was intrigued by Bjugstad. I liked the Nino pick and Nelson wound up being better than all three.

 

[seabass45]

Lets be real the isles would've ruined Seguin as well. They didnt do well enough at prospect development as well during that era.

I'm not convinced that this would happen. He'd be relatively sheltered at 2C and Tavares was doing fine. He's a level or two above Nino or Strome.